Member of the Month Feb 2014
Tweet
So I have been privately messaged/asked on my log/asked on other threads about my gains, my routine, and more commonly on my experience with the phallosan so far. Therefore I decided to copy and paste and add to many of my replies and messages to people, and divided it into relevant section in order to possibly provide some help/clarity to others. I will keep adding to this post when I find other messages I have written and/or when I think of other important information that might help others on my experiences. Thanks and happy jelqing 
My Manual Routine:
Well, I am doing both manual PE and using the phallosan. I have put in nearly 1500 hours so far. My manual work has been very varied since I started. But typically I would do 30 minutes of jelqs and 30 minutes of stretches a day, 5 days a week. Sometimes 35 minutes for each. However, this was built up gradually over the space of a few months, make sure you condition your dick gradually. Start with 10 minutes of both stretching and jelqing and increase it every week/fortnight.
It took a while to increase to this length of time on them though. I find that I get a good workout if I use my phallosan all day, then day my jelqs in the evening, extend another few hours with the phallosan and then do my stretches before bed. I have been gaining around 1/8 inch per month/month and a half after my initial great newbie gains (1/2 inch in 2 months).
What I do quite often is extend for several hours to give my penis a thorough warm-up and to loosen things up. Then I will do 30 minutes of jelqs and go back extending. Extend for several hours and then do your stretches, where your dick is going to be pre-fatigued and very elasticated. You will notice your dick will be really nice and stretchy here, stretches are always best done last thing at night I find. And then extend straight away for another few hours after your stretches works a wonder!
So, to recap: Extend-jelq-extend-stretch-extend. All the extending periods are for several hours however, this should be taken into account.
I love bundled stretches, I really find they work wonders and you really feel them throughout your dick and in your ligaments too.
Manual Exercises:
Jelqs, I usually jelq at a low erection level and do slow firm ones with my palm facing upwards (I find you can get lower to the base and grip tighter with it), and do quick kegels while I perform the exercise. Jelq in all directions and I also vary up my jelq strokes, when my dick is feeling a bit tired, I start doing a load of quick jelqs to wake my unit up a bit. I always vary between tighter and lighter jelqs/jelq-stroke time/different direction, variety is the spice of life and keeps your dick guessing. Hope some of this helps
I have recently started to do more advanced girth work, so hopefully it pays off. I have been doing ulis, erect squeezes, and horses in the morning when I wake up with morning wood. They feel great and give me a great pump.
Schedule:
So far my routine appears to be: Wear phallosan Monday - Friday, and then again on Sunday evening for a few hours.
My manual work has been evolving and I have no strict set routine but what I have really enjoyed the past few weeks and will keep on is the following routine:
Monday, Wednesday, Friday - Manual girth work in the mornings, horse squeezes, ulis, erect squeezes and higher erection jelqs.
Monday - Friday - Jelq for 30 minutes before going to the gym.
Tuesday and Thursday Evening - Bundled stretches for 30 minutes.
I did the above routine up to 6 months of my PE journey. From then on I decided to start including clamping into my routine also.
Length vs. Girth First?:
I am not too sure about if gaining girth will hinder you gaining length. There is the theory that you should get all of your length gains before concentrating on girth gains, but I am not sure how legitimate this claim is because there seems to be a lot of people that have managed to do both at the same time. There is also the TGC theory which states that if your FSL is 0.5 longer or more than your BPEL, then you should have a slightly more concentrated girth routine, even if looking for length, because it helps with smooth muscle growth, and hence a stronger erection.
What I am thinking of doing is doing girth work along with stretches and phallosan until my length gains start to dry up, if I gain girth in this time, then great, but am going to try max out my length gains and then focus intently on girth, with length work taking a small fraction of my PE time.
I believe that trying to gain both simultaneously is a bit analogous to bodybuilding where someone tries to bulk while cutting fat at the same time. While it is possible, it would be better to focus on one area over the other first, and then come back to the other gain later on. It just seems practical to me. I am gaining length quite successfully, so will keep going until I max out.
Manual and Phallosan Combination:
I also find that manual PE compliments the phallosan beautifully, do your manual work and then go into the phallosan. Or what I prefer to do is to go into the phallosan for a good few hours so nicely loosened up, do manual work, then straight back into the phallosan I have found that the phallosan-manual-phallosan-manual-phallosan routine has worked for me greatly. I find it really compliments each specific component, I learnt this idea from other members on the forum who suggested similar things (namsokiek with his jelq-pump-jelq-pump process).
Background:
I have put in a lot of hard work since I started PE'ing, did a lot of research, and really put in the hours. I am not sure about how much of my gains can be attributed to the phallosan and how much to my manual work but feel that both of them compliment one another greatly. I started August 7th, doing manual work and using the phallosan in combination and in the first 7 weeks I saw half an inch growth, but my gains have slowed up a bit since then but they are still coming. Right now I have been PE'ing and using phallosan for 5 months and have gained around 1 inch in length and .25 in girth.
Way of Wearing:
I always go in flaccid and exit flaccid. Never need to get erect at all. I am 4.75 erect girth but am around 4 flaccid girth. I use the medium condom sleeve with the large bell cup in the night-time because my head is already very expanded from wearing it all day. During the day I wear the medium bell with the medium condom sleeve. I wear it for 70-90 hours a week. Some days 20 hours if I can. I am usually in low-yellow now cos have been wearing it for over 3 months. I do jelqs and stretches, I take 1-2 rest days a week.
I have been increasing tension very gradually. I increase when I don't feel a bit of tug/tension in it. I am nearly at 2000 hours now with the tension on high yellow during the day and low yellow while I sleep, which is great. I will definitely push the tension up to the red before 2200 hours. My logic behind it is to get as much gains at lower tensions as possible so as to not "max out" my gains too early. I know some members got great gains from wearing theirs at red tension but that he was also aware of this maxing out phase, and took a 2 month break after to decondition himself before wearing the phallosan again. I have been wearing it for over 6 months now. Will try to get another 1 or 2 months out of the high yellow tension and then crank it up to low red - high red for the last four or five months to take me to a year of wear-time. After that I will reevaluate if I am still gaining or if I need a deconditioning break too.
Tension Colours and Time During These Periods:
What I did personally was wear it in low green for the first few weeks, then increase to mid green for a month, high green for a month, low yellow for a month, mid yellow for a month, and medium-high yellow for a month, now this month I will increase it to high yellow for a month, then low red for a month after that, and so forth. You should put markings on the belt so you know where you are at and at what date, because if you are wearing it a lot the tension might get a little looser so you can re-adjust it correctly if you have the markings on the belt.
Uncut/Foreskin Issue:
I am uncut and I have tried all different types of ways but what I have found to be the best way is to pull back the foreskin fully and then put on the protector cap on the head and down over the glans below the head. However, as I mentioned before, I prefer going into the phallosan without the protector cap on, but the same process applies - I pull back my foreskin fully, enter the bell with my head fully inside, and then I pull the condom sleeve down and roll it accordingly, I would never have any of my glans below the bell as I found that this would lead to edema etc.
Need for PE Conditioning Prior or Not:
I started wearing the phallosan as soon as I got it and started my manual work on the same day. I have been really happy with my progress so far and I think my gains are still coming at a decent pace, although they are certainly slowing down a bit. Start slowly though, as recommended, 1 or 2 hours the first day and then incrementally building it up over the course of the first week or two. Then you should be conditioned to wear it for long periods. I would recommend wearing it for no more than two hours in a row, then take it out to get yourself a few helicopter shakes to recirculate blood and this will also minimize edema build-up.
Hours/Usage:
From my experience I try to get in between 10-15 hours in the phallosan 5 or 6 days a week now. My EQ would be terrible if I wore it for 20+ hours for a few days. 10-12 hours with your normal manual PE is more than enough. I would do those long wear-times when you know you will not need good EQ, it could be when you girlfriend/wife is on her period/away for a few days/holiday/or whenever you don't need your cock to be doing its business.
I would definitely build up my phallosan usage gradually. Even after only taking a week break from it I got bruising and red penis head, so I had to re-condition myself to it all over again! In relation to sleeping in it, I recommended other people the same, wait until you have at least a few weeks to a month experience in it and when you do wear it at night, wake up every 3 or 4 hours to take it off and to reduce edema build-up.
Long Hours VS. EQ:
The 20+ hours in the phallosan also take it out of you mentally quite a bit, something I acknowledged before commencing the experiment of wearing it like this. I feel so weird having a thing pulling on my cock for basically the whole day, with my only break being gym or manual PE. So as you can imagine your EQ would go down dramatically. I think I might start a fairly extensive thread soon on my experiences with the phallosan so far to help others with the ins and outs of its usage as I realise most don't want to be reading through pages and pages of info in a thread.
If you wear it for long sessions your EQ will drop and your morning wood etc will go down I found. This hinders your ability to perform so many manual PE exercises, which in my opinion is an outcome I am not willing to take. Do not hinder your ability to do manual PE in my opinion, so the 10-15 hour bracket is more than enough I think, unless you are really in the mood to wear it for longer instead of doing your daily routine. My EQ has been way better lately that I have cut down my phallosan hours. I think those mammoth 20 hour+ sessions really fuck up your EQ. Fair enough I was still seeing good gains with it, but think my gains will be better with more quality manual PE but still do my 10-12 hours a day with the phallosan.
Sleeping in the Phallosan:
I have slept in it quite a lot, yes. The problem with me is that I am a "mover" in my sleep, so I have had to adjust the way I sleep quite a bit so that I can wear the phallosan while I sleep. I have often rolled back and forth while wearing the phallosan but it has not been dangerous or sore and I have not read anyone having problems with it so far on the support thread and I have been reading it regularly since its first inception. Actually, apologies, I since remembered that Era_Style (I think) reported that he got blisters after sleeping in it for 8 hours straight.
I would not recommend sleeping in it for long time periods such as this. And also, I am not "recommending" you sleep in it because I do not want to be feel responsible for injuries, I am just giving an account of my experiences with the device. The company that makes phallosan says that it is perfectly ok to sleep in it, so take it up with them if you have any problems
It depends what type of sleeper you are. If you fall asleep easily and just on one side then you will be fine. Even if you move around, like me, you will probably still be ok. I would warn you though, I would only start sleeping in it after at least a month of normal day wear. This is so your body gets adjusted to it.
Warning About Sleeping In It:
There was one case where a member started wearing it while sleeping straight away for an 8 hour period and complained he got blisters on his head. Going straight into a new PE device and wearing it in that style is looking for trouble. If you are wearing it in your sleep I would recommend wearing it for a month normally. Then when you are going to wear it in your sleep, take it off every 3 or 4 hours for circulation and to minimise edema build-up.
Also, put it on a very low tension when you are sleeping (lower than what you would wear during the day). But as far as rolling on it etc, I think the material it is made out of, I don't see how it may be dangerous, it is quite sturdy. Also, one more thing, check to see how comfortable the size bell you are using is during the day when you get an erection. Sometimes it might be fine when flaccid but a bit compressed when you get an erection, if so move to the larger bell at night because of night-time erections.
Condom Sleeves Durability:
The condom sleeves are actually pretty sturdy enough. Make sure you put baby powder on them everytime you put on the device I would say. The condom sleeves feel quite fragile or thin without the powder, but with it it seems to give them a coat. I can't explain it too well, but you will see yourself. Just take your time everytime you are winding the condom sleeve back, if you are in a rush, STOP, calm down and take your time. If you think it is rolling back incorrectly, roll it back down and try again. You will get the hang of doing it in no time.
Injuries:
make sure you are dry when going into it. My advice would be to only increase the tension VERY gradually, i.e. high green is too high for you. Mark the belt and increase the tension slightly (1 cm or 2), every 3/4 weeks. It will lessen the edema build-up. You will probably see a lot of minor inconveniences like this while wearing the PF but just keep in mind that they are temporary and will go away. Another thing to look out for is to make sure your penis head is dry going into it, because if there is any excess urine etc, the suction pump causes your head to go a little red. It is harmless but not aesthetically pleasing. is nothing to worry about, just take a break from it for a while, massage it, and put warming pad on it. The redness will go away after a day or two, if it is the same thing that I had. The edema will go away in a few hours. All part of the learning curve
Avoiding Injury:
Take it slower would be my advice, especially in relation to the tension, and also with the hours you are putting in. I went down to the medium bell again so that I would not have to pump as much, I think that might have been part of the reason why I got bruising before. I keep taking it out after half an hour or so to make sure it is ok, it is a bit red on the glans and a few times I could see the onset of purple too, but luckily I have avoided the incident of last week so far. I wore it for 3 hours yesterday, so I will try to bump it up gradually over the next few days. If you have to take a break from the device for a week or two you may have to "re-adjust" to it like the way you did at the start by building up the hours gradually.
Phew, that took some length of time. There is lots more information I will put up here, but that is an initial starters for people
My Manual Routine:
Well, I am doing both manual PE and using the phallosan. I have put in nearly 1500 hours so far. My manual work has been very varied since I started. But typically I would do 30 minutes of jelqs and 30 minutes of stretches a day, 5 days a week. Sometimes 35 minutes for each. However, this was built up gradually over the space of a few months, make sure you condition your dick gradually. Start with 10 minutes of both stretching and jelqing and increase it every week/fortnight.
It took a while to increase to this length of time on them though. I find that I get a good workout if I use my phallosan all day, then day my jelqs in the evening, extend another few hours with the phallosan and then do my stretches before bed. I have been gaining around 1/8 inch per month/month and a half after my initial great newbie gains (1/2 inch in 2 months).
What I do quite often is extend for several hours to give my penis a thorough warm-up and to loosen things up. Then I will do 30 minutes of jelqs and go back extending. Extend for several hours and then do your stretches, where your dick is going to be pre-fatigued and very elasticated. You will notice your dick will be really nice and stretchy here, stretches are always best done last thing at night I find. And then extend straight away for another few hours after your stretches works a wonder!
So, to recap: Extend-jelq-extend-stretch-extend. All the extending periods are for several hours however, this should be taken into account.
I love bundled stretches, I really find they work wonders and you really feel them throughout your dick and in your ligaments too.
Manual Exercises:
Jelqs, I usually jelq at a low erection level and do slow firm ones with my palm facing upwards (I find you can get lower to the base and grip tighter with it), and do quick kegels while I perform the exercise. Jelq in all directions and I also vary up my jelq strokes, when my dick is feeling a bit tired, I start doing a load of quick jelqs to wake my unit up a bit. I always vary between tighter and lighter jelqs/jelq-stroke time/different direction, variety is the spice of life and keeps your dick guessing. Hope some of this helps
I have recently started to do more advanced girth work, so hopefully it pays off. I have been doing ulis, erect squeezes, and horses in the morning when I wake up with morning wood. They feel great and give me a great pump.
Schedule:
So far my routine appears to be: Wear phallosan Monday - Friday, and then again on Sunday evening for a few hours.
My manual work has been evolving and I have no strict set routine but what I have really enjoyed the past few weeks and will keep on is the following routine:
Monday, Wednesday, Friday - Manual girth work in the mornings, horse squeezes, ulis, erect squeezes and higher erection jelqs.
Monday - Friday - Jelq for 30 minutes before going to the gym.
Tuesday and Thursday Evening - Bundled stretches for 30 minutes.
I did the above routine up to 6 months of my PE journey. From then on I decided to start including clamping into my routine also.
Length vs. Girth First?:
I am not too sure about if gaining girth will hinder you gaining length. There is the theory that you should get all of your length gains before concentrating on girth gains, but I am not sure how legitimate this claim is because there seems to be a lot of people that have managed to do both at the same time. There is also the TGC theory which states that if your FSL is 0.5 longer or more than your BPEL, then you should have a slightly more concentrated girth routine, even if looking for length, because it helps with smooth muscle growth, and hence a stronger erection.
What I am thinking of doing is doing girth work along with stretches and phallosan until my length gains start to dry up, if I gain girth in this time, then great, but am going to try max out my length gains and then focus intently on girth, with length work taking a small fraction of my PE time.
I believe that trying to gain both simultaneously is a bit analogous to bodybuilding where someone tries to bulk while cutting fat at the same time. While it is possible, it would be better to focus on one area over the other first, and then come back to the other gain later on. It just seems practical to me. I am gaining length quite successfully, so will keep going until I max out.
Manual and Phallosan Combination:
I also find that manual PE compliments the phallosan beautifully, do your manual work and then go into the phallosan. Or what I prefer to do is to go into the phallosan for a good few hours so nicely loosened up, do manual work, then straight back into the phallosan
I have found that the phallosan-manual-phallosan-manual-phallosan routine has worked for me greatly. I find it really compliments each specific component, I learnt this idea from other members on the forum who suggested similar things (namsokiek with his jelq-pump-jelq-pump process). Background:
I have put in a lot of hard work since I started PE'ing, did a lot of research, and really put in the hours. I am not sure about how much of my gains can be attributed to the phallosan and how much to my manual work but feel that both of them compliment one another greatly. I started August 7th, doing manual work and using the phallosan in combination and in the first 7 weeks I saw half an inch growth, but my gains have slowed up a bit since then but they are still coming. Right now I have been PE'ing and using phallosan for 5 months and have gained around 1 inch in length and .25 in girth.
Way of Wearing:
I always go in flaccid and exit flaccid. Never need to get erect at all. I am 4.75 erect girth but am around 4 flaccid girth. I use the medium condom sleeve with the large bell cup in the night-time because my head is already very expanded from wearing it all day. During the day I wear the medium bell with the medium condom sleeve. I wear it for 70-90 hours a week. Some days 20 hours if I can. I am usually in low-yellow now cos have been wearing it for over 3 months. I do jelqs and stretches, I take 1-2 rest days a week.
I have been increasing tension very gradually. I increase when I don't feel a bit of tug/tension in it. I am nearly at 2000 hours now with the tension on high yellow during the day and low yellow while I sleep, which is great. I will definitely push the tension up to the red before 2200 hours. My logic behind it is to get as much gains at lower tensions as possible so as to not "max out" my gains too early. I know some members got great gains from wearing theirs at red tension but that he was also aware of this maxing out phase, and took a 2 month break after to decondition himself before wearing the phallosan again. I have been wearing it for over 6 months now. Will try to get another 1 or 2 months out of the high yellow tension and then crank it up to low red - high red for the last four or five months to take me to a year of wear-time. After that I will reevaluate if I am still gaining or if I need a deconditioning break too.
Tension Colours and Time During These Periods:
What I did personally was wear it in low green for the first few weeks, then increase to mid green for a month, high green for a month, low yellow for a month, mid yellow for a month, and medium-high yellow for a month, now this month I will increase it to high yellow for a month, then low red for a month after that, and so forth. You should put markings on the belt so you know where you are at and at what date, because if you are wearing it a lot the tension might get a little looser so you can re-adjust it correctly if you have the markings on the belt.
Uncut/Foreskin Issue:
I am uncut and I have tried all different types of ways but what I have found to be the best way is to pull back the foreskin fully and then put on the protector cap on the head and down over the glans below the head. However, as I mentioned before, I prefer going into the phallosan without the protector cap on, but the same process applies - I pull back my foreskin fully, enter the bell with my head fully inside, and then I pull the condom sleeve down and roll it accordingly, I would never have any of my glans below the bell as I found that this would lead to edema etc.
Need for PE Conditioning Prior or Not:
I started wearing the phallosan as soon as I got it and started my manual work on the same day. I have been really happy with my progress so far and I think my gains are still coming at a decent pace, although they are certainly slowing down a bit. Start slowly though, as recommended, 1 or 2 hours the first day and then incrementally building it up over the course of the first week or two. Then you should be conditioned to wear it for long periods. I would recommend wearing it for no more than two hours in a row, then take it out to get yourself a few helicopter shakes to recirculate blood and this will also minimize edema build-up.
Hours/Usage:
From my experience I try to get in between 10-15 hours in the phallosan 5 or 6 days a week now. My EQ would be terrible if I wore it for 20+ hours for a few days. 10-12 hours with your normal manual PE is more than enough. I would do those long wear-times when you know you will not need good EQ, it could be when you girlfriend/wife is on her period/away for a few days/holiday/or whenever you don't need your cock to be doing its business.
I would definitely build up my phallosan usage gradually. Even after only taking a week break from it I got bruising and red penis head, so I had to re-condition myself to it all over again! In relation to sleeping in it, I recommended other people the same, wait until you have at least a few weeks to a month experience in it and when you do wear it at night, wake up every 3 or 4 hours to take it off and to reduce edema build-up.
Long Hours VS. EQ:
The 20+ hours in the phallosan also take it out of you mentally quite a bit, something I acknowledged before commencing the experiment of wearing it like this. I feel so weird having a thing pulling on my cock for basically the whole day, with my only break being gym or manual PE. So as you can imagine your EQ would go down dramatically. I think I might start a fairly extensive thread soon on my experiences with the phallosan so far to help others with the ins and outs of its usage as I realise most don't want to be reading through pages and pages of info in a thread.
If you wear it for long sessions your EQ will drop and your morning wood etc will go down I found. This hinders your ability to perform so many manual PE exercises, which in my opinion is an outcome I am not willing to take. Do not hinder your ability to do manual PE in my opinion, so the 10-15 hour bracket is more than enough I think, unless you are really in the mood to wear it for longer instead of doing your daily routine. My EQ has been way better lately that I have cut down my phallosan hours. I think those mammoth 20 hour+ sessions really fuck up your EQ. Fair enough I was still seeing good gains with it, but think my gains will be better with more quality manual PE but still do my 10-12 hours a day with the phallosan.
Sleeping in the Phallosan:
I have slept in it quite a lot, yes. The problem with me is that I am a "mover" in my sleep, so I have had to adjust the way I sleep quite a bit so that I can wear the phallosan while I sleep. I have often rolled back and forth while wearing the phallosan but it has not been dangerous or sore and I have not read anyone having problems with it so far on the support thread and I have been reading it regularly since its first inception. Actually, apologies, I since remembered that Era_Style (I think) reported that he got blisters after sleeping in it for 8 hours straight.
I would not recommend sleeping in it for long time periods such as this. And also, I am not "recommending" you sleep in it because I do not want to be feel responsible for injuries, I am just giving an account of my experiences with the device. The company that makes phallosan says that it is perfectly ok to sleep in it, so take it up with them if you have any problems
It depends what type of sleeper you are. If you fall asleep easily and just on one side then you will be fine. Even if you move around, like me, you will probably still be ok. I would warn you though, I would only start sleeping in it after at least a month of normal day wear. This is so your body gets adjusted to it.
Warning About Sleeping In It:
There was one case where a member started wearing it while sleeping straight away for an 8 hour period and complained he got blisters on his head. Going straight into a new PE device and wearing it in that style is looking for trouble. If you are wearing it in your sleep I would recommend wearing it for a month normally. Then when you are going to wear it in your sleep, take it off every 3 or 4 hours for circulation and to minimise edema build-up.
Also, put it on a very low tension when you are sleeping (lower than what you would wear during the day). But as far as rolling on it etc, I think the material it is made out of, I don't see how it may be dangerous, it is quite sturdy. Also, one more thing, check to see how comfortable the size bell you are using is during the day when you get an erection. Sometimes it might be fine when flaccid but a bit compressed when you get an erection, if so move to the larger bell at night because of night-time erections.
Condom Sleeves Durability:
The condom sleeves are actually pretty sturdy enough. Make sure you put baby powder on them everytime you put on the device I would say. The condom sleeves feel quite fragile or thin without the powder, but with it it seems to give them a coat. I can't explain it too well, but you will see yourself. Just take your time everytime you are winding the condom sleeve back, if you are in a rush, STOP, calm down and take your time. If you think it is rolling back incorrectly, roll it back down and try again. You will get the hang of doing it in no time.
Injuries:
make sure you are dry when going into it. My advice would be to only increase the tension VERY gradually, i.e. high green is too high for you. Mark the belt and increase the tension slightly (1 cm or 2), every 3/4 weeks. It will lessen the edema build-up. You will probably see a lot of minor inconveniences like this while wearing the PF but just keep in mind that they are temporary and will go away. Another thing to look out for is to make sure your penis head is dry going into it, because if there is any excess urine etc, the suction pump causes your head to go a little red. It is harmless but not aesthetically pleasing. is nothing to worry about, just take a break from it for a while, massage it, and put warming pad on it. The redness will go away after a day or two, if it is the same thing that I had. The edema will go away in a few hours. All part of the learning curve
Avoiding Injury:
Take it slower would be my advice, especially in relation to the tension, and also with the hours you are putting in. I went down to the medium bell again so that I would not have to pump as much, I think that might have been part of the reason why I got bruising before. I keep taking it out after half an hour or so to make sure it is ok, it is a bit red on the glans and a few times I could see the onset of purple too, but luckily I have avoided the incident of last week so far. I wore it for 3 hours yesterday, so I will try to bump it up gradually over the next few days. If you have to take a break from the device for a week or two you may have to "re-adjust" to it like the way you did at the start by building up the hours gradually.
Phew, that took some length of time. There is lots more information I will put up here, but that is an initial starters for people
Comment