~ Male Sexual Function from a Hormonal Perspective ~

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

Posted this in the other thread but I think it should be marked up here as an important post.
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Androgen's really have NO real direct effect on libido;depending on your definition of libido.
Because most studies where a man was estrogen deficient (or taking aromatase inhibitors) and supplementing DHT found only a slight increase in libido (and that's with low / undetectable E2). Mainly androgens just maintain normal penile nitric oxide levels (locally) and so they can allow for an erection (and perhaps an easier one) from a vascular level and they help to increase EQ/erection hardness.

Now on the other hand, androgens can increase focus and confidence as well as sexual aggression and may help to put you into an assertive / dominant state.

However, without estrogen you won't have the passion, non-contact erections (unless you perhaps have ridiculously high levels of DHT to the point where e2 becomes irrelevant)..... and also you will stop fantasizing most likely.

To sum this up...

Androgens play a role in...
-Social Selection / Mate Selection (what types of women you are attracted to)
-Erectile Function
-Focus, Confidence, Sexual Aggression and being Assertive.

They do NOT sustain
-Passion
-Fantasies
-Non-Contact Erections (in most cases)


Androgens are mainly for the "plumbing" of erections whereas estrogen is for the central and neural circuitry.

The reason why these two get mixed up is because estrogen is converted from Testosterone and estrogen can NOT cross the blood brain barrier - only Testosterone can. So yes it's Testosterone that does it, but you need a little bit of aromatase as well.


This is not to say by any means that men should be giving themselves estrogen supplements (On the Contrary, definitely not) ...but this is why everyone (every man) should get blood work if they are having erectile dysfunction.


It's on the rarer side for just any guy to have Low E2 levels without an explainable cause. You could have low libido because you Have Low Testosterone, or you could have low libido because you have low estro and / or DHT.


Now some of you are asking at this point in reading this..."I thought you just said DHT wasn't involved in libido"..
Well----- INDIRECTLY it influences estrogen and how estrogen is used.

DHT also BINDS SHBG (Sex-Hormone-Binding-Globulin) which means that your hormones become freed up; including estrogen. So theoretically, DHT may allow some of your testosterone to convert to estrogen (in the right place) ASSUMING you are not estrogen deficient *lacking aromatase* in the first place.


Therefore DHT ***Is a regulator*** of all other hormones.

DHT itself lowers aromatase and estrogen **generally** but only slightly and as a regulatory effect. What is left is still freed up by DHT's OTHER ACTIONS.

Hope this clears the hormone sector up.

**Also this above comment I've made in all of it's detail does not mean that DHT and estrogen (brain T) are exclusively involved***

~There are many other hormonal factors to take into consideration, but DHT and estrogen tend to be the primary~

***Pregnenolone and Progesterone*** also regulate social behavior and sexual activity. Progesterone tends to calm the nervous system in low amounts whereas in high amounts it causes a lot of anxiety. Pregnenolone is highly anxiolytic and is stronger overall than Benzo's in terms of relieving anxiety (without causing lethargy and behavioral changes).



http://www.omim.org/entry/613546
http://bit.ly/1uXDnOy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10583321
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143915/

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

What causes lack of non contact erections with ageing?

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

What causes lack of non contact erections with ageing?

It's about the decreasing testosterone levels that comes with aging, but it's also about the ratio. Depending on your fat mass - and exercise / cardio level - you may have more aromatase enzymes as you get older. Which again. It's a tricky thing. Yes aromatase and estrogen are important, but you have to actually think about what is going on from a hypothalamic level. Too much estrogen and the hypothalamus becomes inhibited, which means all round testosterone becomes decreased and then there's less brain T.

So it's a weird negative feedback loop.

High Estrogen (systemically,peripherally,exogenous etc) leads to less testosterone - - less testosterone means less E2 in the hypothalamic areas ; because again, you won't have estrogen in the brain without testosterone.

Now also on the same level, less DHT also = less erections and erection hardness.

Then with aging, there's decreases of growth hormone and overall nitric oxide levels as well.

Your whole pituitary gland starts going downhill, and cholesterol isn't converted into DHEA/Testosterone as easily because the enzymes and second messengers required for this synthesis are decreased as you age.

Namely sTAR and cAMP (steroidogenic acute regulatory protein and cyclic Adenosine MonoPhosphate, respectively).

Cyclic AMP (cAMP) is also involved in Thyroid function and helps to maintain neuroactive steroids and testosterone aromatization as well.

Which is why some people who have used ********* have reported gynecomastia.

However it's yet ANOTHER strange feedback loop, because if cAMP has such potent impacts on the metabolism, you would think overall decrease in body fat = less estrogen. I guess it's just a matter of how much and where, and how your body is using it.

Then it comes back to DHT and how this may modulate the effectiveness of metabolic transports and proteins as well as estrogen activity from a receptor level.


Now I don't mean to keep elaborating with a chicken or egg argument...but it becomes very sophisticated nevertheless - we all try to make sense of something as best we can, sometimes our own experiences tend to be more helpful than the narrow scientific eclipse seen from a distance. I mean in conclusions....because surely there are none or it comes to a stopping point quickly when you try to dive into all the what ifs, as to What is included in the study or not. I mean you can point out an error in every single study if you look hard enough.

There are 100's of details spared, but for the right reason?

Well in Summary, it's my Experience and based on what I've read, that DHT is VERY important and should not be overlooked when it comes to erections in general.

However E2 is also important, but again, men only need small amounts of estrogen to maintain proper vitality and sexual function.

That amount depends on blood test you are talking...

I am convinced that bloodwork in the morning is optimal.
E2 should be in that 15-25 ng/dl range, depending yet again on many factors.

It would seem that some men are more sensitive to estrogen side-effects EVEN WHEN estrogen levels are low???

Why is this???
Because perhaps the receptors are so sensitive that the level becomes irrelevant. Meaning in this case, likely the androgen protection of DHT was removed (possibly by Propecia or similar drugs) or this person in general has low DHT or some other receptor issue. Maybe even an estrogen receptor alpha mutation.

Estrogen receptor alpha is more potent and the sites are broadly distributed. Whereas estrogen receptor Beta is mainly an INHIBITORY receptor located in the hypothalamus and hippocampus mainly *(where it serves to regulate negative feedback and may provide an anti-anxiety/anti-stress effect).*

Now I have not seen any studies where estrogen receptor beta wasn't present (as in human tissues or a family that was missing the ERb gene) - but I will say this, estrogen receptor beta is also regulated by DHT interestingly.

But not in antagonism...

DHT actually inhibits the hypothalamus Partly THROUGH ErB activation/modulation.

So it could be said that TOO MUCH DHT as well might inhibit the hypothalamus enough to distort the metabolic enhancing effects of testosterone.

The androgen 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and its m... [J Neurosci. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

Estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) and androgen receptor (AR) are found in high levels within populations of neurons in the hypothalamus. To determine whether AR or ERbeta plays a role in regulating hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis function by direct action on these neurons, we examined the effects of central implants of 17beta-estradiol (E2), 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the DHT metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3beta, 17beta-diol (3beta-diol), and several ER subtype-selective agonists on the corticosterone and adrenocorticotropin (ACTH) response to immobilization stress. In addition, activation of neurons in the paraventricular nucleus (PVN) was monitored by examining c-fos mRNA expression. Pellets containing these compounds were stereotaxically implanted near the PVN of gonadectomized male rats. Seven days later, animals were killed directly from their home cage (nonstressed) or were restrained for 30 min (stressed) before they were killed. Compared with controls, E2 and the ERalpha-selective agonists moxestrol and propyl-pyrazole-triol significantly increased the stress induced release of corticosterone and ACTH. In contrast, central administration of DHT, 3beta-diol, and the ERbeta-selective compound diarylpropionitrile significantly decreased the corticosterone and ACTH response to immobilization. Cotreatment with the ER antagonist tamoxifen completely blocked the effects of 3beta-diol and partially blocked the effect of DHT, whereas the AR antagonist flutamide had no effect. Moreover, DHT, 3beta-diol, and diarylpropionitrile treatment significantly decreased restraint-induced c-fos mRNA expression in the PVN. Together, these studies indicate that the inhibitory effects of DHT on HPA axis activity may be in part mediated via its conversion to 3beta-diol and subsequent binding to ERbeta.

[Hawar Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hawar]

Good God, I wish I've never read this utterly depressing post.

(Nothing personal of course, corageon.)

[harnow Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close harnow]

Good God, I wish I've never read this utterly depressing post.

(Nothing personal of course, corageon.)

LOL i was thinking same thing

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

Good God, I wish I've never read this utterly depressing post.

(Nothing personal of course, corageon.)

I hear ya, but I'm not sure how this is depressing.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

What causes lack of non contact erections with ageing?

To answer your question in a simpler manner.
Decreasing activity or efficiency of the Hypothalamus / Pituitary gland.
W/e the cause is - be it e2 imbalance, DHT...dopamine etc

[Mr Free T Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mr Free T]

I hear ya, but I'm not sure how this is depressing.

There's a lot of information on biochemical factors here which may seem depressing but I think Corageon would agree that the courses of action required to optimise all these biochemical factors at once (diet and supplementation for example) are a lot easier to understand than the factors themselves. So that's good news.

There are a few "force multipliers" I've found - courses of action that tend to round out a lot of these issues at once.

The big one is eliminating or greatly reducing the amount of refined carbohydrates in your diet.

The second one is eating a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol.

[Hawar Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hawar]

I hear ya, but I'm not sure how this is depressing.

Because we're all getting older. And, for me anyway, it doesn't seem that I'll ever experience a fulfilling sexual experience.

Sometimes I wish if I was born as somebody else. (Maybe a Cristiano Ronaldo or something, just without the twatness.)

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

There's a lot of information on biochemical factors here which may seem depressing but I think Corageon would agree that the courses of action required to optimise all these biochemical factors at once (diet and supplementation for example) are a lot easier to understand than the factors themselves. So that's good news.

There are a few "force multipliers" I've found - courses of action that tend to round out a lot of these issues at once.

The big one is eliminating or greatly reducing the amount of refined carbohydrates in your diet.

The second one is eating a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol.

That's exactly right; fat and cholesterol intake is often overlooked.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

That's exactly right; fat and cholesterol intake is often overlooked.

In addition, getting trace minerals like boron and Vanadium is important. There are also other elements that many of use are lacking today. More obscure trace minerals like Geranamine, Indium and others also strengthen the Hypothalamus.

[bigdaws Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bigdaws]

In addition, getting trace minerals like boron and Vanadium is important. There are also other elements that many of use are lacking today. More obscure trace minerals like Geranamine, Indium and others also strengthen the Hypothalamus.

So were can you get things that will help your biochemicals can you please.right a little.list of. things that helps

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

So were can you get things that will help your biochemicals can you please.right a little.list of. things that helps

Get the right organic multi-vitamin - New Chapter Men's Multi and Alive Whole Food MultiVitamin Powder are two examples.

[Mr Free T Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mr Free T]

So were can you get things that will help your biochemicals can you please.right a little.list of. things that helps

I would recommend the Blue Ice Royal fermented cod liver oil and butter fat capsules.

They contain a lot of vitamin A, K2, D3 and other micronutrients that are a great cocktail for kickstarting the cycle of male sex hormone creation. They have helped me a lot.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

I would recommend the Blue Ice Royal fermented cod liver oil and butter fat capsules.

They contain a lot of vitamin A, K2, D3 and other micronutrients that are a great cocktail for kickstarting the cycle of male sex hormone creation. They have helped me a lot.

It's not bad...omega-3 and omega-6 are also useful, not just for blood pressure but for rejuvenating and enhancing responsiveness of sexual nerves.
They are co-factors for prostaglandins, nitric oxide, histamine and also have an effect on growth hormone, acetylcholine and dopamine.