Libido/hormonal problems

[TheChoice Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TheChoice]

TS, I have elevated prolactin as well. (in addition to that my free t is low ) Dr. wants to send me to an endocrinologist and get a MRI with contrast of the pituitary gland. I think the brain MRI is being a little overly cautious, but I understand the reason behind it. Still haven't done it yet.

If he wants to give you an MRI scan, go for it, not in a million year i'd say no to it.
Long story short, prolactin out of the normal range will ruin your sex life, Im the living proof of it, regardless of what any doctor says.
My advice for you would be to accept the help mate, put your shame and pride in a box and leave it at home when you go visit the endo.
Get an endo that actually wants TO HELP YOU, not some newcomer who does it all by the book, the endo has to listen to you aswell, in the end your the one who its all about.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

If he wants to give you an MRI scan, go for it, not in a million year i'd say no to it.
Long story short, prolactin out of the normal range will ruin your sex life, Im the living proof of it, regardless of what any doctor says.
My advice for you would be to accept the help mate, put your shame and pride in a box and leave it at home when you go visit the endo.
Get an endo that actually wants TO HELP YOU, not some newcomer who does it all by the book, the endo has to listen to you aswell, in the end your the one who its all about.

Nice post. Bravo.

[Orome Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Orome]

Prolactin is not good, but as you lower prolactin, estro goes up to ...so you almost always have to target BOTH of them to re-boot normal hormone production. Although prolactin will go down to some extent after dealing with estradiol.
Only exception here is if you have too much serotonin or are overmethylated, then you will need multiple anti-prolactin agents or one very strong one plus deal with estradiol.

Odd thing is my estrogen was not abnormal. Free T was low, though.

If he wants to give you an MRI scan, go for it, not in a million year i'd say no to it.
Long story short, prolactin out of the normal range will ruin your sex life, Im the living proof of it, regardless of what any doctor says.
My advice for you would be to accept the help mate, put your shame and pride in a box and leave it at home when you go visit the endo.
Get an endo that actually wants TO HELP YOU, not some newcomer who does it all by the book, the endo has to listen to you aswell, in the end your the one who its all about.

Yea, I intend to. It's just my current living situation and insurance make it a bit more difficult, I have to go out of town to get it done because insurance doesn't cover the state I'm temporarily living in. I still intend to get it checked out, though. My urologist didn't think anything of it, in fact I had to go out on my own to get a complete hormonal test. I then sent the results to my GP and he's the one that wanted to take a deeper look (which I appreciate).

How elevated were yours? Did they ever mention looking at your pituitary gland?

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

Odd thing is my estrogen was not abnormal. Free T was low, though.



Yea, I intend to. It's just my current living situation and insurance make it a bit more difficult, I have to go out of town to get it done because insurance doesn't cover the state I'm temporarily living in. I still intend to get it checked out, though. My urologist didn't think anything of it, in fact I had to go out on my own to get a complete hormonal test. I then sent the results to my GP and he's the one that wanted to take a deeper look (which I appreciate).

How elevated were yours? Did they ever mention looking at your pituitary gland?

Yeah but if you start lowering the high prolactin, naturally the estrogen goes up - which means either way you have to counter both...ANY increase in testosterone will almost always yield a proportional increase in both DHT and estrogen...estrogen has to be countered to sustain the T / DHT...

[Mr Free T Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mr Free T]

Hello all,

Having browsed on these forums for a while I've finally decided to post my story here in the hope I can both help myself and others.
First off I'd never thought I would up ending posting something on the internet about this, but after suffering so long with this seems I have no choice.

Since I was about 10 years old I've been put on several SSRI's and antipsychotics till I was about 21 cause of mental issues I had.
Seems I was never really interested in sex much girls in highschool, and If I was interested in one of them, Id want to fall in love first before actually wanting to have sex with her... ass odd as it sounds its true. I do believe I have estrogen dominance ( index finger fair bit longer than ring finger ). Have had gyno since I was 12 years old and it has never gone away. Oddly enough my penis is around/somewhat above average, about 7" erect and much thicker than average, I guess its true that penis size depends on far more than just testosterone. The ladies actually dig me quite alot without sounding too selfish, but thats no use when I cant get it up or maintain an erection in bed is it.... Id rather have a shorter/smaller penis and a rockhard consistent erection...

Having tried 'self medication' in the past with steroids once (important to note: sexual issues im describing in this thread were allready there BEFORE this cycle):

Testosterone Enanthate 500mg/week ( had 1 injection )
Nandrolone Deca 250mg/week ( had 1 injection )
Dianabol 30mg/day ( used for 3 days )

Stopped using steroids all together after I noticed, INTENSE MOODSWINGS, felt like I was gonna jump off the 9 floor high building I live in, so called a mate then never touched the stuff again. Also noticed the area under my nipple was getting much softer than normal and seemed to get a bit lumpier ( genetic heavy aromatizer due to estrogen dominance? )
I then decided to take Nolvadex as a pct directly after, then after about 2 weeks I wake up with this erection ive never felt before and felt this huge urge to hump any woman accross my path?
Could this be due to the Nolvadex? Or was it just the Test-E still kicking in from the first and only injection i've had? Apparantly it takes 2 weeks to kick.

Recently I've been to the urologist and i've had some bloodwork done and these are the results:

TSH 4.6 mIU/L 0.3-4.6
free T4 17.9 pmol/L 10-23
T3 1.3 nmol/L 1.1-3
LH 6 IU/L 2-9
FSH 9 IU/L 2-18
Prolacin 0.44(*) IU/L - 0.37
Testosteron 14.0 nmol/L 9-28
SHBG 27 nmol/L 10-60
free testo. 0.322 nmol/L 0.2-0.62

The urologist told me im normal n healthy... yeah right, I didnt even took her seriously so basically was like yeah yeah whatever just give me an appointment for a sexuologist ( english is not my first language, so not sure what it's called exactly ) and she did, so now I'm waiting for that appointment.
By the way this blood was taken on 4th of august, testosteron and blood work should be at best during summer... so what an idiot is that urologist saying my blood is fine..., maybe for some 60+ year old guy yeah...

Some info:
- 31 years old
- sexual intercourse rarely possible, due to losing erection/not being able to get full erection depends on girl and situation though
- rare morning erections, but I do have them sometimes (2-3 times/month) the ones you could make a girl fall in love with your dick for
- arousal SEEMS TO BE AN ISSUE aswell, I like women but rarely in a way I feel the urge to penetrate them
- strength wise in decent shape
- endurance wise (running, etc ) in fairly bad shape
- on days that I do run, jog or do whatever kind of cardio I've noticed that I get aroused much more easily whenever I see a girl that I dig
- yet getting up early and going for a run I dont seem to like ( dopamine/motivational issues? )
- cannot get orgasm with penetration, have to get her to whack me off really fast n hard for long... or masturbate too long to porn
-weak-ish nocturnal erections

I was personally thinking when I go visit the sexuologist asking for either Cabergoline, prolactin seems too high, and should in theory restore my testosterone levels due to increased LH signalling and having more T3 circulating in my body.
Im just a little bit worried that taking cabergoline might increase my anxiety giving me issues in that department... which would obviously lead to erectile issues aswell...
Another option seems to be to ask for a more complete bloodwork, including estradiol/dht and the ratios in relation to testosterone.

I'm open to any tips, thoughts or personal experiences.
Thanks in advance

I think we may have all missed an obvious one here guys. Look at those thyroid levels! OP may well be subclinical hypothyroid - lowered thyroid function.

The thyroid controls the rate at which MOST processes in the body happen. Every cell in the body has receptors for thyroid hormone. There's a very well known and very strong connection between hypothyroidism and low levels of sex hormones like testosterone, as well as increased levels of prolactin. OP is experiencing all of that.

The give away is the TSH. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. It's released by the pituitary and it tells the thyroid to make the hormone T4. 4.6 is a VERY high level. High TSH is actually bad because it means that the pituitary is "panicking" in a way and trying to get the thyroid to release more hormone because the body is not getting enough thyroid hormone. High TSH is the standard indicator of hypothyroidism. Yes OP's TSH is "in range" but I think we all know that "in range" on a lab test doesn't mean much. From what I've heard from thyroid experts, they really like to see levels of like 0.5-1.5 depending on who you ask. So 4.6 is WAY higher than that.

OP's T4 looks normal I think though I could be wrong. T4 is produced by the thyroid gland itself. On the other hand the OP's T3 looks quite low. T3 is converted from T4 in other parts of the body, mainly in the liver.

The T4 is created by the thyroid and then travels via blood to the liver among other places and gets converted to T3.

T3 is the active thyroid hormone. Low T3 is the problem. T4 doesn't actually regulate body processes that much, T3 does.

So basically the OP has low T3 levels which means that there may be a problem in the liver converting T4 to T3.
I seem to remember the common cause of low T4>T3 conversion being inflammation. I'll link you a PDF by an thyroid expert and functional health practitioner at the bottom.

Are other people on this forum seeing where I'm coming from here? Corageon?

That's basically all I know about thyroid but here's where I learned most of that:

Thyroid Disorders

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

I think we may have all missed an obvious one here guys. Look at those thyroid levels! OP may well be subclinical hypothyroid - lowered thyroid function.

The thyroid controls the rate at which MOST processes in the body happen. Every cell in the body has receptors for thyroid hormone. There's a very well known and very strong connection between hypothyroidism and low levels of sex hormones like testosterone, as well as increased levels of prolactin. OP is experiencing all of that.

The give away is the TSH. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. It's released by the pituitary and it tells the thyroid to make the hormone T4. 4.6 is a VERY high level. High TSH is actually bad because it means that the pituitary is "panicking" in a way and trying to get the thyroid to release more hormone because the body is not getting enough thyroid hormone. High TSH is the standard indicator of hypothyroidism. Yes OP's TSH is "in range" but I think we all know that "in range" on a lab test doesn't mean much. From what I've heard from thyroid experts, they really like to see levels of like 0.5-1.5 depending on who you ask. So 4.6 is WAY higher than that.

OP's T4 looks normal I think though I could be wrong. T4 is produced by the thyroid gland itself. On the other hand the OP's T3 looks quite low. T3 is converted from T4 in other parts of the body, mainly in the liver.

The T4 is created by the thyroid and then travels via blood to the liver among other places and gets converted to T3.

T3 is the active thyroid hormone. Low T3 is the problem. T4 doesn't actually regulate body processes that much, T3 does.

So basically the OP has low T3 levels which means that there may be a problem in the liver converting T4 to T3.
I seem to remember the common cause of low T4>T3 conversion being inflammation. I'll link you a PDF by an thyroid expert and functional health practitioner at the bottom.

Are other people on this forum seeing where I'm coming from here? Corageon?

That's basically all I know about thyroid but here's where I learned most of that:

Thyroid Disorders

You have a point, but since he was/has been on AntiPsychotics and SSRI's - these can cause accumulating and worsening issues - especially with the thyroid gland. In these cases, one must get their prolactin and cortisol levels down (caused by these drugs over time) before thyroid hormone and hormone conversion goes back to normal.
You have to remember that thyroid hormones are STRONGLY regulated by sex hormones.

He could however take an Olive Leaf extract to help alleviate some of his symptoms in the mean time.
OLE helps speed T3 production from T4...

There is no question that T3 plays an important, very vital role in sexual function.
T3 helps to block or downregulate alpha-2-receptors and it acts as one of the body's natural PDE inhibitors.
This means T3 is of critical importance in erectile issues and libido issues.

[Slip Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Slip]

You have a point, but since he was/has been on AntiPsychotics and SSRI's - these can cause accumulating and worsening issues - especially with the thyroid gland. In these cases, one must get their prolactin and cortisol levels down (caused by these drugs over time) before thyroid hormone and hormone conversion goes back to normal.
You have to remember that thyroid hormones are STRONGLY regulated by sex hormones.

He could however take an Olive Leaf extract to help alleviate some of his symptoms in the mean time.
OLE helps speed T3 production from T4...

There is no question that T3 plays an important, very vital role in sexual function.
T3 helps to block or downregulate alpha-2-receptors and it acts as one of the body's natural PDE inhibitors.
This means T3 is of critical importance in erectile issues and libido issues.

This could possibly be my issue too. I took Zoloft for 6 or 7 years. Haven't taken it in a few years though. How does one get prolactin and cortisol down then?

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

This could possibly be my issue too. I took Zoloft for 6 or 7 years. Haven't taken it in a few years though. How does one get prolactin and cortisol down then?

Maintaining a low-stress environment is the base - then I would consider a couple things.
#1) For prolactin you can get a prescription for Cabergoline or Pramipexole from the Doc if it turns out elevated past the normal range. I don't want you to settle for "could be's" - just going by symptoms alone can be dangerous. You should get bloodwork.
***On another note, an over the counter supplement that I've used years back after discontinuation of SSRI's was USPLabs PowerFULL.***
#2) Workout and decrease body fat, lift weights.
#3) For cortisol levels, do the above and lower stress, you can consider a cortisol blocker as well. Either ergogenix ergobolic or PES erase Pro..those the only two legit sups that I have found to produce measurable changes in bloodwork.

[Orome Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Orome]

Maintaining a low-stress environment is the base - then I would consider a couple things.
#1) For prolactin you can get a prescription for Cabergoline or Pramipexole from the Doc if it turns out elevated past the normal range. I don't want you to settle for "could be's" - just going by symptoms alone can be dangerous. You should get bloodwork.
***On another note, an over the counter supplement that I've used years back after discontinuation of SSRI's was USPLabs PowerFULL.***
#2) Workout and decrease body fat, lift weights.
#3) For cortisol levels, do the above and lower stress, you can consider a cortisol blocker as well. Either ergogenix ergobolic or PES erase Pro..those the only two legit sups that I have found to produce measurable changes in bloodwork.

I tried PowerFULL (taking it alone) and holycrap does that give you rock hard morning erections. I appreciate the input on hormones and supplements. I agree, though, it's a complex balance and getting on a lot of supplements without labs you are essentially shooting blind. One thing that remains unknown (at least to me) is how all these supplements interact with one another. You can look up drug interactions and known side effects online with a lot of good data, but with unregulated supplements there is a huge unknown.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

I tried PowerFULL (taking it alone) and holycrap does that give you rock hard morning erections. I appreciate the input on hormones and supplements. I agree, though, it's a complex balance and getting on a lot of supplements without labs you are essentially shooting blind. One thing that remains unknown (at least to me) is how all these supplements interact with one another. You can look up drug interactions and known side effects online with a lot of good data, but with unregulated supplements there is a huge unknown.

Absolutely correct, look on examine.com which will give you detailed information on every herb/nutraceutical they have a database entry for (most of all).
Just an example - there is no documented interaction between Rhodiola Rosea and ACE Inhibitors - but part of the nutrapharmacological activity of Rhodiola involves ACE inhibition - so you should by knowledge of the MECHANISM - assume not to combine Rhodiola and blood pressure pills (ACE inhibitors at least!). You would be over potentiating the effects of the BP pill - and causing significant risk. Especially since the affinity for related enzymes is much stronger by pharmaceutical drugs - it wouldn't overlap, the Rhodiola would just add to it.
Ya feel me?
Point being, study ALL of your supplements, educate yourselves on interactions. But also...know YOURSELF and how YOU react - every medical decision should be treated based on INDIVIDUALITY.

~Corageon~

[Closed035 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Closed035]

If he wants to give you an MRI scan, go for it, not in a million year i'd say no to it.
Long story short, prolactin out of the normal range will ruin your sex life, Im the living proof of it, regardless of what any doctor says.
My advice for you would be to accept the help mate, put your shame and pride in a box and leave it at home when you go visit the endo.
Get an endo that actually wants TO HELP YOU, not some newcomer who does it all by the book, the endo has to listen to you aswell, in the end your the one who its all about.

Don't be silly and think you know more than doctors. c'mon man... i bet if he knew of something that could save your life, you'd be willing to buy in to his knowledge in two seconds. however, just because he disproves your anxiety, you now completely trash their opinion. c'mon man, don't be a clown.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

Don't be silly and think you know more than doctors. c'mon man... i bet if he knew of something that could save your life, you'd be willing to buy in to his knowledge in two seconds. however, just because he disproves your anxiety, you now completely trash their opinion. c'mon man, don't be a clown.

The Choice was a little bit too firm, but he got the point across - and it is a valid point.
Not ALL docs who come into the profession are honest, most of them go for incentives from Big Pharma.
but...I know for a fact there are many who truly care and just don't have the memory retention or focus to be broad enough..but this is halfassing it still..then there's the ones who aren't afraid to think outside the box and legitimately go out of their way to help their patients and to understand thoroughly, their Individuality.

[Orome Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Orome]

I've had mixed results with doctors, if you display more than common knowledge of possible underlying conditions they either look at you one of two ways. Some will look at you as a hypochondriac that just goggled symptoms and will likely dismiss them as probably being psychosomatic, and other doctors will ask if you had a background or some education in medical and see it as a good thing as they can better articulate what's going on without having to dumb it down. Of course differentiating the two must be hard for some doctors.

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

I've had mixed results with doctors, if you display more than common knowledge of possible underlying conditions they either look at you one of two ways. Some will look at you as a hypochondriac that just goggled symptoms and will likely dismiss them as probably being psychosomatic, and other doctors will ask if you had a background or some education in medical and see it as a good thing as they can better articulate what's going on without having to dumb it down. Of course differentiating the two must be hard for some doctors.

Depending on what you are trying to get script wise - but if you are too transparent then they might also think that you are trying to get high or some shit.
SOLUTION : Don't be transparent.
Use every shortcut you got up in your nogg'n but be vigilant and don't press the Docs too hard.
At the same time, NOT being firm enough with your Doc will not help get the stuff you need as well.

You know your Doc, you know yourself, and between you and your Doc you can figure out the answer, and your Doc is your support character. But you need to know yourself, and promptly and firmly discuss the key issues with your Doc.

[Orome Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Orome]

Depending on what you are trying to get script wise - but if you are too transparent then they might also think that you are trying to get high or some shit.
SOLUTION : Don't be transparent.
Use every shortcut you got up in your nogg'n but be vigilant and don't press the Docs too hard.
At the same time, NOT being firm enough with your Doc will not help get the stuff you need as well.

You know your Doc, you know yourself, and between you and your Doc you can figure out the answer, and your Doc is your support character. But you need to know yourself, and promptly and firmly discuss the key issues with your Doc.

A lot of times I'm just trying to get the proper testing and evaluation to determine the underlying condition. My GP is good at listening, he actually listens to his patients. I have learned that you really have to be an advocate for yourself and your own health, most doctors aren't going to do it for you, and a lot of testing just comes down to cost and probability and not the individual's needs.