Body-weight program

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

If your resistance training isn't hard on the joints, you're not using enough resistance. Bodyweight vs external weight should make no difference, the whole point of resistance training is to put lots of stress on the joints and muscles to break them down and make them stronger.

No, you're wrong. The point of resistance training is to put more stress on the muscles (so they grow bigger and stronger) whilst putting the lest stress possible on the joints. The joints are mainly cartilage, not muscle, and they respond and adapt much slower to external stimulus than the muscles.

If you think that treating the joints just like you treat your muscles, putting them under very stressfull situations, is the way to make them stronger, then you'll be visiting the Hospital more often than you might think. And then, when you finaly learn, it'll already be too late.

CC is very easy on your joints because the 10 progressions of each exercise are meant to be done slowly, giving your joints enough time to adapt. I used CC's Pullup progression when I got elbow tendonitis from doing pullups. I stuck to it for 6 months, until I reached step 5 (Pullups), and I must say that since then my elbow pain is almost unnoticeable, even when doing more advance variations of pullups.

[eiffel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eiffel]

No, you're wrong. The point of resistance training is to put more stress on the muscles (so they grow bigger and stronger) whilst putting the lest stress possible on the joints. The joints are mainly cartilage, not muscle, and they respond and adapt much slower to external stimulus than the muscles.

Nonetheless, the implication that bodyweight training is somehow easier on your joints implies that bodyweight conditioning uses less resistance. If you're continually progressing by decreasing factors such as leverage, balance, and even distribution of weight between the limbs, then this should not be the case. Resistance is resistance, and your muscles aren't going to "know" whether it's bodyweight or external weight.

If you're injuring yourself through weight training, it's probably due to some combination of bad form, putting on too much weight too fast, and over-training. The fact that you're using weights other than your own body should not be an issue.

[namsokiek Banned Find all posts View Profile Close namsokiek]

Here are 44 bodyweight exercises. Let us know when you can do them all.

44 Best Bodyweight Exercises Ever! (High Def) - YouTube

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

Nonetheless, the implication that bodyweight training is somehow easier on your joints implies that bodyweight conditioning uses less resistance. If you're continually progressing by decreasing factors such as leverage, balance, and even distribution of weight between the limbs, then this should not be the case. Resistance is resistance, and your muscles aren't going to "know" whether it's bodyweight or external weight.

If you're injuring yourself through weight training, it's probably due to some combination of bad form, putting on too much weight too fast, and over-training. The fact that you're using weights other than your own body should not be an issue.

Like you said, every form of weight training, whether it's bodyweight, free weights or machines, is effective.

However bodyweight training is easier on the joints not because it uses less resistance (go to your gym and see how many gym rats can do one arm pullups or pushups. Or even handstand pushups. I doubt you'll find one.). It is easier on the joints because itīs the most natural form of training. Why? Because the human species has been doing it for the last thousands of years! That's why it's normally safer than the other forms of training, your body copes with it a lot better than it does with the other forms of training. Free weights and machines, or even gym for that matter, are a relatively new invention if you take in consideration the "lifespan" of the human species.

[eiffel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eiffel]

How "natural" something is has nothing to do with whether or not it's safe or healthy. PE, brushing your teeth, shampooing your hair, and riding a bicycle are all completely "unnatural" activities. Anyways, picking up heavy objects is not exactly a new practice, I doubt you could find an archaeologist who could give you a precise (let alone recent) point at which people (not to mention our primate ancestors from millions of years ago) starting attempting to pick up big things.

Like I said, your muscles have no way of knowing whether the resistance comes from internal or external weight. A muscle can only contract and release, sentience is not on the list of their functions. So whether you're increasing the resistance by adding on weight or subtracting mechanical advantages, your body isn't going to "know". From the perspective (or rather lack thereof) of your leg muscles, a pistol squat is the same motion as a two-leg weighted squat. Varying degrees of resistance is the only objective and relevant thing to consider, "naturalness" is not a measurable factor.

If you're going to do exclusively bodyweight training, that's great, and I actually do the same. But smearing weighted training for being somehow more injurious than bodyweight training is unfounded. Consider the shelf life of a professional gymnast.

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

How "natural" something is has nothing to do with whether or not it's safe or healthy. PE, brushing your teeth, shampooing your hair, and riding a bicycle are all completely "unnatural" activities.

Brushing your teeth? Riding a bike? You got the idea of natural wrong... By natural I meant that the movements you do during bodyweight training mimic those you do in your every day life a lot better than most machine-based exercises, for instance. That's why it's easier on your body, because you're doing movements the human body has been doing for thousands of years. Pushing yourself, pulling yourself up to something...


As far as the heavy object goes, do you think the Spartans (the greatest warriors to ever live) picked up big things to get stronger and more agile? I bet they didn't! What I bet they did was lots of fighting, hanging on tree branches, running totally equipped... Like I said, Bench Pressing, Cable Pulldowns, Bicep Curls, upright rows... are relatively new invention.

[eiffel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eiffel]

Benching, cable pulling, and upright rows are all examples of compound pulling and pushing movements, and whether the weight is yourself or another object is irrelevant. Again, the body cannot distinguish between different types of resistance, your muscles just contract in accordance with the pressure placed upon them. As for bicep curls, I think they're good for advanced bodybuilders but isolation is not so great for building overall strength. But the same could be said of bodyweight calf raises.

And I don't know what your source is for the "Spartans hanging from trees" account, but running while totally equipped (e.g., fully suited with armor, shield, and weapons) is a definite example of weighted exercise.

The best reasons I can think of to do bodyweight strength training instead of using weights are increased coordination and balance, better targeting of smaller muscles through compound movements (i.e. hip flexor and hip abductor training through straddle L-sits, which also work the delts, chest, abs, and quads simultaneously), and the high portability and low cost of your workout.

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

Benching, cable pulling, and upright rows are all examples of compound pulling and pushing movements, and whether the weight is yourself or another object is irrelevant. Again, the body cannot distinguish between different types of resistance, your muscles just contract in accordance with the pressure placed upon them. As for bicep curls, I think they're good for advanced bodybuilders but isolation is not so great for building overall strength. But the same could be said of bodyweight calf raises.

And I don't know what your source is for the "Spartans hanging from trees" account, but running while totally equipped (e.g., fully suited with armor, shield, and weapons) is a definite example of weighted exercise.

The best reasons I can think of to do bodyweight strength training instead of using weights are increased coordination and balance, better targeting of smaller muscles through compound movements (i.e. hip flexor and hip abductor training through straddle L-sits, which also work the delts, chest, abs, and quads simultaneously), and the high portability and low cost of your workout.

I don't have a source for that. I said "I bet they did x". I didn't get it from anywhere.

You still don't get it do you? It not about the weight you lift! It's about how you lift! That's what makes the difference between a successful workout and a stop by the hostpital! Upright rows, for instance, are one of the most dangerous exercises out there, regardless of how much weight you use! Why? Because the movement you make during the exercise is completly unnatural! Your shoulder hasn't done movements like that for thousands of years, why should it now? It's not used to motions like that. That's why upright rows are shoulder destroyers for many people, regardless of the weight they use. The motion itself is unnatural for your shoulder.

Hope you get it now. Being a natural movement has nothing to do with how much you lift, but how you do so.

[eiffel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eiffel]

So how natural does this look to you? Bench pressing, while it may not incorporate as much core and thigh strength, is an identical arm motion (horizontal pressing) to pushups, and weighted squats are identical per leg (vertical pressing) to pistol squats. Say what you will about upright rows (the first portion of the movement in that video is actually quite similar), but cable pull downs are the same motion (vertical pulling) for your arms as pull ups.

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

Okay, good point. Here's the thing: EVERYTHING that is done with rings or with no restriction is more natural than anything done with bars. Pullups done with rings are more natural than pullups done on a straight bar. Why? Because the rings rotate, which means it lets your shoulder get in the most natural and comfortable position. With a bar, however, you canīt rotate your hands. Whenerver your doing exercises with straight bars, there will be some extra pressure put on the joints associated with the movement your doing.

That's also why pushups are more natural than bench pressing: in pushups, you can place your hands the way it's most comfortable. With bench press, you can't rotate your hands because the bar is straight. That's also why there are lots of non-straight bar types which were made to allow more comfortable positions in several movements.

[eow. Member of the Month April 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close eow.]

Bodyweight programs will always be lacking in the lower body strength department. I think there's nothing wrong with mixing a few BW exercises with weighted exercises though. For upper body I do bench press, weighted pull-ups, weighted dips, and overhead press. For lower body I do squats, deadlifts, and sprints/runs. Pistols are just not very effective at increasing maximum leg strength.

Anyways, I'm sick of hearing about "functional" fitness and how it only applies to bodyweight training. It's totally bogus. Whether or not a certain exercise is functional depends on if it helps you perform a specific real-world task, and this can be different for EVERYONE. Anything can be functional. Doing bicep curls would be very functional for people who carry groceries for senior citizens.

Deadlifts are probably the MOST "functional" weighted exercise. You are picking something heavy off of the ground with correct form. I pick shit up all the time, and I'm sure most people do the same. It is the basic movement a healthy human should be able to perform.

Yes you can injure yourself lifting weights. You can also injure yourself doing bodyweight movements. You can injure yourself doing ANYTHING. Weighted lifts have a higher learning curve, kind of how hanging has a higher learning curve than manual exercises. You can injure yourself easier hanging than you can with manual stretches, but people understand that and prepare accordingly.

natural natural natural natural natural natural

Need I say that a full, olympic squat is one of the most natural positions the human body can assume? Add a little weight and that is huge potential for strength gains and body awareness.

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

Need I say that a full, olympic squat is one of the most natural positions the human body can assume? Add a little weight and that is huge potential for strength gains and body awareness.

It is natural. Squating is something you throughout your entire life. You say BW exercises lack in the lower body strenght department? Pistols Squats. That's all I'm gonna say.

I didn't say other forms of training weren't functional. They're all functional, except ones are safer than others.

[namsokiek Banned Find all posts View Profile Close namsokiek]

Now I've got to make fun of the argument (or rather the guy making the argument)

do you think the Spartans (the greatest warriors to ever live) picked up big things to get stronger and more agile? I bet they didn't! What I bet they did was lots of fighting, hanging on tree branches, running totally equipped.

Another guy, passionate about his new exercise trend opens his mouth to share his innermost thoughts...and we see his thoughts and arguments are 'made-up'

I don't have a source for that. I said "I bet they did x". I didn't get it from anywhere.

This is no surprise, of course, because running fully equipped is not a body weight exercise (kind of let that one slip out, oops).

The most compelling argument for me was the point where he said

EVERYTHING that is done with rings or with no restriction is more natural than anything done with bars. Pullups done with rings are more natural than pullups done on a straight bar. Why? Because the rings rotate, which means it lets your shoulder get in the most natural and comfortable position. With a bar, however, you canīt rotate your hands.

From this argument we can determine that shoulder rotation = natural. Mike can support this because he "can bet" that cavemen who needed to move a rock would only move the rocks which allowed their shoulders to rotate in "the natural way". I can hear the conversation now:

Cavewoman: grunt, ugg, grunt (translation: honey will you please move that rock so we can use it for a table. We have guests coming over tonight)

Caveman: ugg, grunt, ugg (translation: can't do it baby, there are no rings on that rock. My shoulders won't be able to rotate in the natural way. I don't want to take a trip to the hospital)

Cavewoman: grunt ugg grunt (translation: Oh dear, you're right. We definitely don't want to pay those co-pays with our meager income...what with the economy the way it is now.)

The truth is; weights are as safe as you make them. eow is right, there is greater chance for injury because you're working with greater weight. Of course if your body weight is 500lbs, your chances of injury are pretty damn high.

Now, I personally know the spartans became so big and strong not by lifting weights, not by body exercise, but by knitting scarfs. I know because the caveman told me over drinks the other night.

[eow. Member of the Month April 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close eow.]

Pistols Squats. That's all I'm gonna say.

Pistol squats are more of a circus skill than a strength exercise, in my opinion. Seriously, pistols aren't hard man. They might be a little difficult in terms of balance, but strength? Not really, unless you're a total noob to strength training.

Also, pistols are DEFINITELY not a natural position for your body to assume. A full olympic squat seems like much more natural position for your joints in general.

[mikeguima Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mikeguima]

Now I've got to make fun of the argument (or rather the guy making the argument)



Another guy, passionate about his new exercise trend opens his mouth to share his innermost thoughts...and we see his thoughts and arguments are 'made-up'



This is no surprise, of course, because running fully equipped is not a body weight exercise (kind of let that one slip out, oops).

The most compelling argument for me was the point where he said



From this argument we can determine that shoulder rotation = natural. Mike can support this because he "can bet" that cavemen who needed to move a rock would only move the rocks which allowed their shoulders to rotate in "the natural way". I can hear the conversation now:

Cavewoman: grunt, ugg, grunt (translation: honey will you please move that rock so we can use it for a table. We have guests coming over tonight)

Caveman: ugg, grunt, ugg (translation: can't do it baby, there are no rings on that rock. My shoulders won't be able to rotate in the natural way. I don't want to take a trip to the hospital)

Cavewoman: grunt ugg grunt (translation: Oh dear, you're right. We definitely don't want to pay those co-pays with our meager income...what with the economy the way it is now.)

The truth is; weights are as safe as you make them. eow is right, there is greater chance for injury because you're working with greater weight. Of course if your body weight is 500lbs, your chances of injury are pretty damn high.

Now, I personally know the spartans became so big and strong not by lifting weights, not by body exercise, but by knitting scarfs. I know because the caveman told me over drinks the other night.

Apparently there are some words I should have highlighted because other might skip them and then twist what one's said.

Anyways, things like this are hard to discuss through writting. Make fun of whoever/whatever you wanna make fun namsokiek. Hopefully your post will entertain the folks here.

Have a nice day.