Cycling Testosterone and Penis Size

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

And by having an exogenous source of T which shuts down your natural production does that not bother th testes being shut on and off like that?

And if it has no harmful effect why is it only really available from your doctor?

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

So much ignorance in this thread.

Testosterone IS natural, you need it for many things and it is very beneficial to your health. Like almost everything in life, too much of a good thing is bad, testosterone is no exception. That being said, you need to take A LOT for it to be too much, and even then all you have to do is scale back the dosage if you use too much. Take 200-250 mg of T a week on average. If you use E Test or Cyp Test inject twice a week for an even level of test in your body (you do not want to cycle, cycling is bullshit! Does you testicles cycle? No, they consistently produce Test, so you want to emulate your body, but you wanna be on a higher level. You want the level of a West African 19-year old, not a 70 year old asian man).

It's not that simple; some people can have a 30% boost in testosterone and suffer estrogen related side-effects due to genetic predispositions...some people get anxiety with a 20% boost because their GENETICS promote it's conversion into other metabolites that others don't get enough of..some people have CONGENITAL (from birth) polymorphisms/mutations in SERT proteins and polyamine transcriptions... - which would affect GREATLY the outcome in how a steroid would affect them. This doesn't even scratch the surface; then there is diabetes, MPB, and liver health that has to be taken into account. Sure, a lot won't have too many issues and may derive great benefits from steroids..but I've found that assumptions and generalizations are the stupidest forms of human ignorance.. and this post of yours here..though not the worst I've seen ..is no exception.

[Marlon LGHanger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Marlon LGHanger]

My two cents worth....
I'm 58 years old, and have been on a doctor prescribed HRT program for four years. They check my blood every 6 months. My blood pressure is great, my resting pulse is 62, my cholesterol levels are all within acceptable ranges. I have had absolutely NO negative side effects. I inject 1/2 ml of testosterone Cypionate every forth day. I take two different orals - 1/2 tablet of Anastrozole 1mg three times a week for four weeks on four weeks off. The same with one tablet of Chorionic Gonadotropin.

My overall energy, mood and libido are similar to what I experienced when I was in my late 20's.
My muscle mass and strength are similar. I routinely hit 300 yard drives past guys half my age! Despite all the potential negative side effects that I have yet to encounter, I believe the quality of life provided by HRT in a professionally monitored medical setting is well worth it.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

So much ignorance in this thread.

Testosterone IS natural, you need it for many things and it is very beneficial to your health. Like almost everything in life, too much of a good thing is bad, testosterone is no exception. That being said, you need to take A LOT for it to be too much, and even then all you have to do is scale back the dosage if you use too much. Take 200-250 mg of T a week on average. If you use E Test or Cyp Test inject twice a week for an even level of test in your body (you do not want to cycle, cycling is bullshit! Does you testicles cycle? No, they consistently produce Test, so you want to emulate your body, but you wanna be on a higher level. You want the level of a West African 19-year old, not a 70 year old asian man).

What you will see is increased muscle mass, lower fat levels (you will look good), increased confidence (feel like an Aplha male), feel happier, stronger bone structure, age slower, more energetic, and most most importantly and fortunately also where you will notice the most change is in your libido and erection quality. You will be horny and have hard ons more easily. T is great, just donīt do 800mg a week like some bodybuilders and youīll be fine.

P.S. A lot of people here just make statements without having done any research, just by what they "heard".

If you donīt believe me, read about it from reputable sources like mayoclinic.com (most prestigious hospital in America), or Home - PubMed - NCBI - US National Library of Medicine

No, it has not been proved to increase chance of cancer
No, roid rage is bullshit. Some people are jerks and they might be more jerks on very high levels of T (>500/week) but nice people will be just fine. Same thing can be said of alcohol
No, your dick will not shrink but your balls might shrink a tiny bit but also most likely will not. Either way, totally worth it
You might get more oily skin and more pimples, but not much. If so, just scale back the dosage
If you are predisposed to lose your hair (on your head) it might speed this up a little, but probably not (again, dosage)
You might get more body hair quicker (we get more as we age). So what, worth it.
Your prostate might increase slightly. If it increases too much (you have to pee all the time because it pushes against your bladder) just scale back the dosage.


Point is, if you have any adverse effects they are not permanent, and T is way less dangerous than a lot of other things we take all the time. What do you think birth control pills are? Itīs estrogen, womenīs primary hormone. Testosterone is menīs primary hormone. If women get it from doctors like it is no big thing, why is T so bad? And yeah, you will be temporarily infertile on T, but that is a huge bonus! Now you can fuck your girlfriend without worrying that she "forgot" to take her pill :P If you want to conceive a child though, you have to stop taking testosterone. You are only infertile while you are on it, it is not permanent!

Oh boy bodybuilding brah logic .

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

It's not that simple; some people can have a 30% boost in testosterone and suffer estrogen related side-effects due to genetic predispositions...some people get anxiety with a 20% boost because their GENETICS promote it's conversion into other metabolites that others don't get enough of..some people have CONGENITAL (from birth) polymorphisms/mutations in SERT proteins and polyamine transcriptions... - which would affect GREATLY the outcome in how a steroid would affect them. This doesn't even scratch the surface; then there is diabetes, MPB, and liver health that has to be taken into account. Sure, a lot won't have too many issues and may derive great benefits from steroids..but I've found that assumptions and generalizations are the stupidest forms of human ignorance.. and this post of yours here..though not the worst I've seen ..is no exception.

Can ongoing prolonged use cause permanent shutdown of body own production?

[corageon Banned Find all posts View Profile Close corageon]

Can ongoing prolonged use cause permanent shutdown of body own production?

If one does not perform the proper PCT protocols then it is possible... There's a lot of idiots who follow bro-science thinking that a couple dabs of herbal voodoo can reboot their testicles after years of steroid use or even after 3 months of use..yes , natural stuff helps but you need to follow the hCG routine/protocol and SERM use and it MUST be proportional and relevant to the DOSAGE, duration of Use and Compounds Used in order to return to somewhat normal....each time you run a cycle you run the possibility of making it more difficult each time to reboot natural production...especially if you are adding in doses and introducing new compounds.

[akaTrex Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close akaTrex]

So much ignorance in this thread.

03_28_2013.JPG

OLD POST.JPG

What took you so long to reply?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

If one does not perform the proper PCT protocols then it is possible... There's a lot of idiots who follow bro-science thinking that a couple dabs of herbal voodoo can reboot their testicles after years of steroid use or even after 3 months of use..yes , natural stuff helps but you need to follow the hCG routine/protocol and SERM use and it MUST be proportional and relevant to the DOSAGE, duration of Use and Compounds Used in order to return to somewhat normal....each time you run a cycle you run the possibility of making it more difficult each time to reboot natural production...especially if you are adding in doses and introducing new compounds.

I have heard of guys who have shut down own production of test so bad it can not be restarted . They have in effect castrated themselves. That is quite aside from the more common fertility issues ,where fertility has been permanently compromised.

[1homie1 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1homie1]

It's not that simple; some people can have a 30% boost in testosterone and suffer estrogen related side-effects due to genetic predispositions...some people get anxiety with a 20% boost because their GENETICS promote it's conversion into other metabolites that others don't get enough of..some people have CONGENITAL (from birth) polymorphisms/mutations in SERT proteins and polyamine transcriptions... - which would affect GREATLY the outcome in how a steroid would affect them. This doesn't even scratch the surface; then there is diabetes, MPB, and liver health that has to be taken into account. Sure, a lot won't have too many issues and may derive great benefits from steroids..but I've found that assumptions and generalizations are the stupidest forms of human ignorance.. and this post of yours here..though not the worst I've seen ..is no exception.

Guys, please refrain from sarcastic one-liners like "great bro-logic", whatever that is, never heard of it. If you think I am mistaken, address the points I am making, you are the only ones who look like a fool with comments like that, in addition to being condescending and arrogant.

There is a culture of "Test is bad" without anybody really knowing why. After reading A LOT about this hormone I do not understand why it has such a bad reputation.

Look, it all boils down to this: Every choice we make in life has potential drawbacks and potential benefits, otherwise it wouldnīt be a choice, it would just be a course of action, like breathing (all benefits, no downsides). What we do everyday is (subconsciously) weigh the odds of a negative result multiplied by its outcome versus the odds of a positive result multiplied by its outcome. In economics we call this expected utility maximization. So before you get in your car you know there is a slight chance that youīll get in a car crash, but weighed against the much higher likelihood of getting to where you need to go it is an easy choice. If you knew there was going to be a hurricane you would most likely stay at home.

Same it is with testosterone. The very real positive effects far outweigh the potential (non permanent) side effects. Unfortunately Test has been grouped together in peopleīs mind as a "drug" (like heroin, molly, crystal meth, whatever) and "drugs are bad, mmmkay" so people poo poo it without a second thought.

In all the posts answering mine, only two have addressed potential problems.
Pegasus, you say long term use might lead to permanent infertility. Iīd like to see some evidence of this, this is not what I read. Also, if you have been on Test for a long time and you want to get off, perhaps in order to conceive a child, you might want to use Clomid (you have to get a prescription) in order to "awaken" your balls and make you fertile again. This jump starts that process, otherwise you might have to wait a long time before your testicles start being active at their previous level.

The other issue raised was the one I quoted above, by corageon. Yes, you are right in that people respond to different dosages differently, some are more susceptible to potential estrogen related side effects. It is like that with pretty much everything in medicine. I have two points to make in reponse to that:
1. Most of these problems are due to meathead bodybuilders "cycling". They get a really high level of T by taking a lot for a period, then they completeley stop taking it. The result is that the body produces more estrogen to keep the balance "right", but it does so slower than you are injecting test. When you stop taking test your level drops quickly, but the estrogen level does not drop quickly. So you can get negative effects like gyno or depression or feeling lethargic. Answer: DO NOT CYCLE. Marlon on these forums says he gets it from his doctor. Do you cycle Marlon? I really doubt it, the doctor probably has him take it continuously about twice a week. BTW Marlon, you should tell your doctor (in America in general) that you are a backwards nation when it comes to testosterone replacement therapy. You use cypionate ester of testosterone, which is fairly fast acting, meaning more injections. In the rest of the world we use undecanoate, which is slow acting. So while you have to inject 4 times a month, we only have to inject once a month and enjoy the same level of testosterone (no big swings in T level).
2. Yeah people respond differently. So if you are experiencing negative effects like anxiety, drop the dosage or increase frequency of injections to have a more level T level.

Liver problems, no, youīd have to use great amounts of testosterone. Iīd worry more about that acetaminophen (paracetamol in Europe) you take when you have a headache.

Diabates. Shit, that stuff seems to effect everything in life. I have not read about how HRT can effect Diabetes. So if you have diabetes, read extra about how HRT might effect you.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Guys, please refrain from sarcastic one-liners like "great bro-logic", whatever that is, never heard of it. If you think I am mistaken, address the points I am making, you are the only ones who look like a fool with comments like that, in addition to being condescending and arrogant.

There is a culture of "Test is bad" without anybody really knowing why. After reading A LOT about this hormone I do not understand why it has such a bad reputation.

Look, it all boils down to this: Every choice we make in life has potential drawbacks and potential benefits, otherwise it wouldnīt be a choice, it would just be a course of action, like breathing (all benefits, no downsides). What we do everyday is (subconsciously) weigh the odds of a negative result multiplied by its outcome versus the odds of a positive result multiplied by its outcome. In economics we call this expected utility maximization. So before you get in your car you know there is a slight chance that youīll get in a car crash, but weighed against the much higher likelihood of getting to where you need to go it is an easy choice. If you knew there was going to be a hurricane you would most likely stay at home.

Same it is with testosterone. The very real positive effects far outweigh the potential (non permanent) side effects. Unfortunately Test has been grouped together in peopleīs mind as a "drug" (like heroin, molly, crystal meth, whatever) and "drugs are bad, mmmkay" so people poo poo it without a second thought.

In all the posts answering mine, only two have addressed potential problems.
Pegasus, you say long term use might lead to permanent infertility. Iīd like to see some evidence of this, this is not what I read. Also, if you have been on Test for a long time and you want to get off, perhaps in order to conceive a child, you might want to use Clomid (you have to get a prescription) in order to "awaken" your balls and make you fertile again. This jump starts that process, otherwise you might have to wait a long time before your testicles start being active at their previous level.

The other issue raised was the one I quoted above, by corageon. Yes, you are right in that people respond to different dosages differently, some are more susceptible to potential estrogen related side effects. It is like that with pretty much everything in medicine. I have two points to make in reponse to that:
1. Most of these problems are due to meathead bodybuilders "cycling". They get a really high level of T by taking a lot for a period, then they completeley stop taking it. The result is that the body produces more estrogen to keep the balance "right", but it does so slower than you are injecting test. When you stop taking test your level drops quickly, but the estrogen level does not drop quickly. So you can get negative effects like gyno or depression or feeling lethargic. Answer: DO NOT CYCLE. Marlon on these forums says he gets it from his doctor. Do you cycle Marlon? I really doubt it, the doctor probably has him take it continuously about twice a week. BTW Marlon, you should tell your doctor (in America in general) that you are a backwards nation when it comes to testosterone replacement therapy. You use cypionate ester of testosterone, which is fairly fast acting, meaning more injections. In the rest of the world we use undecanoate, which is slow acting. So while you have to inject 4 times a month, we only have to inject once a month and enjoy the same level of testosterone (no big swings in T level).
2. Yeah people respond differently. So if you are experiencing negative effects like anxiety, drop the dosage or increase frequency of injections to have a more level T level.

Liver problems, no, youīd have to use great amounts of testosterone. Iīd worry more about that acetaminophen (paracetamol in Europe) you take when you have a headache.

Diabates. Shit, that stuff seems to effect everything in life. I have not read about how HRT can effect Diabetes. So if you have diabetes, read extra about how HRT might effect you.

I have seen permanent effects in people I know .
Bro logic is what you enguage in, try listening to the qualified medical people . Not bro's in the gym .
I should not have to put up with this stuff here, what are you doing away from bodybuilding forums, this stuff does not belong here .

[1homie1 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1homie1]

Look, the interesting question here is not whether Test is good (it is), it is whether topically applied Test to the penis can help increase its size in adult males. In prebubescent boys it definitively can, but once we are finished growing it is not so easy.

Howevery, I did find a small study on the topic, check it out: [Optimization of modern conservative therapy of micropenis in hypogonadal men]. - PubMed - NCBI
It is a small study from the US National Library of Medicine. 16 men, aged 22-62. Where they used Testosterone Replacement Therapy and Nebido (Testosterone Undecanoate, which I mentioned earlier). The men had great increases in penile length (they did not measure girth). Then they also started traction therapy, like we do here on pegym, hanging/stretching (same principle) and had greater increases still.

3 downsides with this study:
1. it is small (only 16 men)
2. The men are hypogonadal and have micropenis, which means that they naturally have EXTREMELY low testosterone levels, which in turn means that they are far more receptible to testosterone replacement therapy. Myself I have slightly lower than average levels, if not average, so even though I take more than twice as much as these men, my T level increased maybe 50-60%, whereas theirs maybe increased 100% (postulating here). The point is, they are more receptible to HRT (hormone replacement therapy)
3. They did not use topical T gel applied to the penis. I am interested to see if a local administration of T would make a difference, as this is what they use on prepubescent boys with micropenis to greatly increase their size.

I have been on HRT for slightly longer than a year and have seen many positive effects, no side effects (slightly more pimples, but only slightly), but have not seen an increase in penis size. I have started off/on with hanging many times, but this time I am really serious about it, been doing it for one month now and intend to keep doing it. Hopefully the combination will yield results.

[1homie1 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1homie1]

I have seen permanent effects in people I know .
Bro logic is what you enguage in, try listening to the qualified medical people . Not bro's in the gym .
I should not have to put up with this stuff here, what are you doing away from bodybuilding forums, this stuff does not belong here .

Does it seem like I am getting my information from broīs in the gym? I assure you I am not. I donīt even have bros in the gym, I work out alone. Whatīs with your hostile attitude? Again, wanna address my points or just sling insults at me?

I was addressing all the crappy non-informed posts already in this thread, so the stuff that "doesnīt belong here" was already here.

"I have seen permanent effects in people I know" - Pegasus
Tell them about Clomid, you can thank me later

[tipico23 Member Find all posts View Profile Close tipico23]

I have heard that a good and controlled cycle of test and some steroids like dianabol,anavar,deca,winstrol followed by a good PCT doest harm your natural production, however im not expert since im natural.

Just donīt go overboard and start using insulin and HGH.

[Marlon LGHanger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Marlon LGHanger]

Can ongoing prolonged use cause permanent shutdown of body own production?

Talk with your doctor...
If you get a blood test it will show what your free testosterone levels are. Depending on how old you are, there comes a point when your body produces so little on it's own that what it does produce is insufficient to slow the ageing process. It all boils down to what kind of quality of life you want. If you are content to always be tired, get fatter, and slower then HRT isn't for you. Same can be said for growth hormone supplementation.

Oral supplements can help, but because they have to be processed through your digestive tract they can do more damage than good. I am very skeptical of the quality of ingredients within oral supplements. I know that if you get one with Tribulus, that it better be from a pure source, because if it isn't it can be toxic over time. Supplement manufactures lie about purity!

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Sorry guys but nothing will stop the aging process. Oh yes certain things will mask stuff but they will cause you problems in other ways. Yes I know I know nothing! ( I thought I'd say that before you guys did)