A question to experienced body-builders

[.I. Member Find all posts View Profile Close .I.]

What do you guys think about my routine?

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Chest , Triceps , Shoulders
Wednesday - Legs , Abs
Thursday -Conditioning (Cardio, TRX, Swimming Pool, whathever it feels more appropriate to not interfere with muscle regeneration)
Friday - Back , Biceps
Saturday - Legs
Sunday - Swimming Pool

I appreciate all replies and opinions

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

I like your routine. Tuesday will be an intense and will require more time in the gym that day. I would add and on your second leg day and make sure you get stretching in with abs on leg day.

I would like to see your ideas on sets and reps and what exercise for each group? Also what are you eating?

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

I hate this phone. Second sentence should say add abs to second leg day

[.I. Member Find all posts View Profile Close .I.]

Sorry mate, that was a typo, just forgot about it. So it would be:


Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Chest , Triceps , Shoulders
Wednesday - Legs , Abs
Thursday -Conditioning (Cardio, TRX, Swimming Pool, whathever it feels more appropriate to not interfere with muscle regeneration)
Friday - Back , Biceps , Shoulders? (Do you think i should add this one here, so i can do two lightier shoulders days instead of one?)
Saturday - Legs, abs
Sunday - Swimming Pool

Also I'll have to shamefully admit I'm not into a real diet yet, designed to muscle building. However, I think I eat healthy food, I dont drink sodas, I'm avoiding alcohol, eat fruit and vegetables, and always make sure mybody gets a some amount of protein throughout the day and ESPECIALLY after the gymn. As I am typing I am eating some grilled chicken after a long nice tuesday training day

[.I. Member Find all posts View Profile Close .I.]

About series, reps and exercises being used, you'll have to excuse me but my first language isn't english, so I'll need more time to be able to translate all the exercises. I'm glad you enjoyed my new routine, any advices are welcome!

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

No worries about eating. It all takes time but do research and get a eating plan you can follow. Don't cut everything out. One more question about your goal. Are you wanting to get bulky or just have some muscle definition? Depending on your answer I may have a better routine for u

[stevew89 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close stevew89]

are you on gear? i feel like the way the current routines are split up are not as productive unless you are on steroids. I like to train each muscle twice a week to optimize protein synthesis in trained muscles.

btw i have a degree in Exercise Science so its not like i am pulling this shit out of my ass.

[.I. Member Find all posts View Profile Close .I.]

Bnip: 1st of all i want to get a little bulky, and only after I reached that objective I want to start muscle definition. At the moment I have 13%bf , and I would like to drop it to a 10%, but I can only achieve that in the kitchen. Anyway I would really like to see your alternative routine

stevew89: When you say gear you mean anabolic steroids? I understand what you mean, but i thought muscles needed 48hours rest. And that in my routine i only work chest bicep tricep shoulders and back once per week. BUT.. I included conditioning training in my routine, maybe if i switch it from thursday to sunday (swimming pool thursday, and CT sunday) I end up working these muscles two times per week without interfering so much in muscle regenaration. With CT I mean pull ups, push ups, TRX suspension trainer, working mostly the stabilizers muscles (If you know what I mean? Not sure If i used the correct term)

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

For mass building I suggest training body parts once a week or a six day rotation with one test day. Such as

Chest and calves
Hams/quads and abs
Bi's and Tri's
Rest
Back and calves
Shoulders and abs

Heavy weight!!!!


Cutting routine

Chest and tris
Back and bis
Rest
Shoulders and calves
Legs an abs
Repeat

Less rest periods and supersets are great for this routine. I would make bulk a winter routine and cut summer

As far as muscle rest I want to give 2 days rest for each part. Lets say one day your doing tris and bis. I wouldn't do chest or back the next day because your chest uses tris and back uses bis. If your getting enough protein rest shouldnt matter as much.

[Thrill Drill Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Thrill Drill]

What? I thought compounds were the way to go for putting on mass. They work the major muscle groups, often multiple all at once, and are better at getting the testosterone flowing. Most people I have talked to are against isolation/splits, unless you are already built and are just looking to sculpt certain body parts.

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

What? I thought compounds were the way to go for putting on mass. They work the major muscle groups, often multiple all at once, and are better at getting the testosterone flowing. Most people I have talked to are against isolation/splits, unless you are already built and are just looking to sculpt certain body parts.

Ill reply tonight when I can get on my computer. The above is a bit confusing

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

Sorry if my above posts were confusing as I was typing that all on my phone. And yes I know my grammar isn’t great. Bare with me.
Trill Drill – Compounds are good for putting on mass as well but OP is concerned about rest between muscle groups. Compounds are needed multiple times a week to get the same effect. Younger people should use compounded workouts as they aren’t concerned about rest as much because repair times are faster in younger people. The older you get the slower the repair time and the more rest needed. Thank you for bringing that to my attention because I see your point.
A split like this would be
Chest/Shoulders/Arms
Legs/Back/Abs
Rest
Chest/Shoulders/Abs
Legs/Back/Arms
Rest
Repeat

You would be doing compound exercises that would be working multiple muscles all in the same day. A routine like this would to an extent be aerobic too because rest time would be shorter. This is why I believe the beginner routine below would be more effective in gaining mass and then decreasing body fat.

Let’s start over…
I believe to effectively gain mass you need to bulk first (gaining mass) then cut (maintain mass and decrease bodyfat %). I have found it to be very difficult to gain mass and cut at the same time. When you cut, no matter how hard you try, you will lose some muscle mass and/or strength.

Beginner Routine
Bulk Routine
This routine focuses on really breaking down the muscle group and giving it ample time to repair. By focusing on one muscle area a day, your muscles will be given the opportunity to break down enough and this will promote repair to that muscle and in return growth.
Chest/Calves-Starting with the exercise that works the largest portion of the chest first.
Barbell Bench Press x8x8x8
Incline DB Pressx8x8x6
Peck Deck or Flat Bench Flysx8x8x6
Pushups 3 x Failure

Seated Calvesx25x20x15
Standing Calvesx20x15x12 Pause at the top last 5 reps of each set

Hams/Quads and Abs

Squat-x8x8x8
Leg Extensions x10x8x8
Leg Curlsx10x8x8
Lunges Barbell Behind Neck 3 x Failure
Wall Sits 2 Sets till Failure sitting at 90 degrees

Abs

Crunches
(When starting crunch focus on bringing stomach towards pelvis and slightly hold crunch on each rep. I prefer hands across chest but if you are putting behind head, don’t bend neck forward)
3 sets of 20-25 or as many as you can if you can’t hit 20

Leg Lifts
(Legs straight out, hands flat on floor and lift legs towards the ceiling without bending knees till your body is a 90 degree angle)
3 x Failure

Side Oblique’s-
Lay on one side and bring your leg off the ground about 6 inches. Then hand behind head and without moving the mid-section bring your upper body towards your hip. You should only be raising your upper body 6-10 inches. Focus on contracting the side of your mid-section (oblique’s).
3 x 8

Bi’s & Tri’s

Standing Barbell Straight Bar Curl x8x8x8
Alternating Dumbbell Curls x8x8x6xFailure
Preacher Curl Dumbbells x8x8x10
Concentration Curls 3 sets of 8-10

Close Grip Bench x8x8x6
Skull Crushers Barbell x8x8x8
Triceps Extensions x10x8x8
Triceps Extensions Rope x10x10x10

Rest Day

Back & Calves

Deadlift x8x8x8
Bent Over Barbell Rows x8x8x6
Pull Downs In Front of Neck x8x8x10
Alternating Bent Over Dumbbell Row x8x8x10

Seated Calvesx25x20x20x20
Standing Calvesx20x15x15x12 Pause at the top last 5 reps of each set

Shoulder/Delts

Barbell Shrugsx8x8x8
Upright Rows Barbell x8x8x6
Front Dumbbell Raise x8x8x10
Side Dumbbell Raise x8x8x10
Seated Bent Over Side Dumbbell Raise x8x10x10

Abs repeat above

Heavy weights as long as you don’t sacrifice form. Form is the most important part so you don’t injury yourself. This routine starts with the focus on the exercise that works the largest part of the area first with heavy weight (after properly warming up of course), and then focuses on stabilizing muscles in that area next slowly increasing reps. This routine is the stable of my mass. It is simple and if using enough weight and eating enough protein, you will grow.

Cutting Program

This focuses on losing weight body fat % and maintaining muscle mass. To an extent what Thrill Drill was talking about is incorporated in this routine in a modified version. Weight will not be as high as in the bulking phase but keep weight as high as you can without sacrificing form and completing the sets below.

Chest & Tri’s

Barbell Bench x12x10x8
Incline Dumbbell Bench x10x10x12

Triceps Extensions x12x10x8
Rope Triceps Extensions x12x12x12

Superset
Skull Crushersx8x10x12
Flat Bench Flys x8x10x12

Superset
Cable Crossovers x12x12x12
Pushups 3 x Failure

Back & Bi’s

Deadlift x12x10x8
Bent Over Rows x10x10x12

Standing Barbell x12x10x8
Preacher Curls x10x10x10

Superset
Alternating Dumbbell Curls x10x10x10
Pull downsx10x10x12
Superset
Concentration curls 3x12
Alternating Bent Over Dumbbell Row 3x12

Rest Day

Shoulders & Calves

Shrugs x15x12x10
Seated Military Press Dumbbell x12x10x10

Superset
Side Lat Raise Dumbbell x10x10xFailure
Front Raise Dumbbell x10x10xFailure


Seated Bent Over Side Dumbbell Raise x10x10xFailure

Calves

Seated Calves4 sets Failure
Standing Calves4 sets Failure

Legs & Abs

Squat or Leg Press 4 set 10

Superset
Leg Extensions x12x10x10
Leg Curls x12x10x10

Lunges 3x Failure
Box Jumps 36” High 3 sets x 1 Minute

Repeat Above

Cardio can go after workouts or can be done on rest days. If doing cardio on rest days make sure you do take a day off every once and a while so you don’t over train. These two programs together will build bulk and then keep the bulk while losing body fat. Once you have mastered this program and achieved the easy gains as a beginner or someone starting again, then you can tackle a routine that targets specific areas in each muscle group.
There will be people who don’t agree with my routines and are welcome to post replies. I am not claiming to be an expert, but these programs have giving me a great start to the physique I have today.

[Jay1983 Senior MemberMember of the Month Apr 2014, Sept 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close Jay1983]

^ Well that post deserves a rep!

[.I. Member Find all posts View Profile Close .I.]

It really does!
After searching all those exercises on youtube I may very well follow your routine sir.

I just have some doubts about a few topics, sorry I'm yet a beginner in learning proccess

1) I see you are not against training until muscle failure. I'm a little bit against it, just because in the last reps your body may take a bad posture while performing that much effort to complete the movement. At the moment I'm training muscles this way:
*Big muscles=4 exercises ; Small muscles=3 exercises
*I normally do 3 sets, 12 reps. Constant weight, upgrading it every 2 weeks. The weight I use, is chosen by the amount of reps I can do the movement until muscle fails, then i drop 2 reps and It should give 12reps. If I can do 16 reps (16-2=14 , > 12) I put extra weight, if I can do 10 reps until muscle fails I take out some weight. You know what I mean? What do you think about this method to choose series/reps?

2) I tought ABCDE training program (like training each muscle once per week with 2-1 rest days) would be to more advanced bodybuilders, that already gained mass. Like stevew89 I also dont see a reason to not train each muscle twice a week, with a 2 day rest between each session. So this would be ABC2x program (for example: A=Chest/Triceps/Shoulders ; B=Legs/Abs ; C=Chest/Biceps ), like ABCABC-day off- ABCABC-day off etc.. Wouldn't this be more stimulating to muscle growth, since It gives enought time for muscles to regenerate, and It stresses them twice per week?

3) About calves.. curious little muscles. I see you put higher reps per set, is there any reason why they are trained different from other muscles? I have a hint there is a reason, just not seing which. Is it a different kind of fiber muscle?

I'm really thankful for you attention mate

[Bnip Retired Moderator Member of the Month July 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Bnip]

I am going to answer topic 2 first.

2) First off, I am not against the ABC plan or the plan you stated in first post. I actually barely modified it a few posts later. I believe that everyone will respond differently to different beginner routines. But this is a time when I believe PE and weight training work in the same way...My strength coach in high school/college trained his weight training class with the ABC method but trained freshman/sophomore and upper classman that were beginners with the ABCDE method. I asked him why would you train beginners two different ways.

He said that many people who aren't completely motivated but just want big muscles will not push them selves rep by rep. They look at as set by set. They will grow and get stronger. This program will work out for them, but the ABCDE wont work for them. I train the others with the ABCDE method because they train hard and consistent with good form rep by rep. They want it more then the other group. Every rep they have great form, every rep they push themselves hard, and every rep they grow stronger. They don't need to train each bodypart 2x week because they are built physically/mentally around this type of workout. Two different routines...two different types of people, but in the end both will get the results they want. However, one group will come out on top (PE is the same way. The ones that really want it, focus every jelq, hanging sec, pumping min, set after set. There may be numerous routines but there is not one size fits all) In short, yes ABCx2 would work just fine. So would ABCDE if enough attention was giving to each rep. Find your comfortable niche.

1) I brought 2 up first because failure is important at strategically placed points in the workout. I believe most people see a set like 3x12 and say to themselves...how much weight can I do to get this done? Ex. 30 lb curls they would use. First set, 12 reps very easy. Second set, 12 reps easy, third set, not easy but not hard. Was that an optimal sets for that person? Maybe if they are content with being average. Ex 2. 35 lb curls first set, easy. Second set, 35 lbs hard but good form was used to complete all 12. Third set, (35 too high drop down to 30) very hard but kept good form and got 11 reps (failure). Was this optimal for this person? Maybe...but more fibers were being stressed during the second workout then the first. Same routine but different mind sets can change the results dramatically. I only use failure at the end of the session to burn out my muscles. I never do failure at the beginning of workout. My second scenario is very close to what you are talking about with one small twist of pyramiding weight. Is yours wrong and mine right? No. Is mine right? No...Mine is tailored around me and yours tailored around you. What you are doing is again absolutely fine, and I stress form over bad form till failure. Failure and slacking on good form is an advanced method used by advanced lifters. Ones that know how to do this without injuring themselves.

3) Calves are a stubborn muscle group. You walk on them all day and they are extremely strong. Putting higher reps with enough weight to cause stress but remain in constant good form, has resulted in better progress then heavy weight low reps. They need more of a constant beating because they are used so often. There fibers aren't different. They just need to be isolated more then other muscle groups. I like to train calves twice a week if I can, no matter what program. Also, changing the tempo is a great way to make them hurst. You may do the first half of the set slow and methodical and the second half faster. Also, holding at the top will help them hurt as well. I usually do this with 5 reps or so remaining. Again, different methods or little tweaks can make a big difference

I believe you are on the right track and don't want to complicate this for you. I want to show that there is not one perfect routine. It depends on the person and their mindset wether or not one will work for them or not. Good luck. Try one and if it works stay with it. When you plateau change routines.