"Argument with loved ones, limited critical thinking"

[MrsLooking4more Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Feb 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close MrsLooking4more]

GLN, I see your point about it being a monetary concern on your part. May I just say that overall out of respect and not authorative fallacy, you express your opinion in a respectable manner and then let her decide. After all she has raised three of you, on her own and in your 20’s you are still living with her.

Like you, I had a mother that spent a lot in unnecessary items and in her case it was a coping mechamism, which got much worse when everyone of us three kids moved out as soon as we turned 17 or 18. She had to readjust and she did learn but it did take a few years. We still gave mom love and respect, just for the sheer fact that we made it through adulthood in her care, no matter what she did.

Good luck with the situation and when you can afford it, every once in a while, it helps to model the behavior, you are trying to instigate (if you don’t already). Maybe buy some healthy stuff and make diner, demonstrate instead of “preaching”, believe me, is a whole different ball game when you are out, on your own.
Once again good luck, hope your studies go by quickly and you achieve the results you are looking for.

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

No, yeah. I am a fucking asshole. No excuse for it. I have apologized to her several times today, and feel like doing so again. She's sleeping right now. Just gotta do my own thang and get on with life.

Still, the longevity issue will remain in my head. Something I ponder about usually.

Like I said, if you mods can take this down, I would appreciate it.

Or maybe not huh? Kind of like a reminder to be more appreciative. I did feel like shit as soon as I posted this thread. Big fuck up.

[proactive Senior MemberMember of the Month ? 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close proactive]

No, yeah. I am a fucking asshole. No excuse for it. I have apologized to her several times today, and feel like doing so again. She's sleeping right now. Just gotta do my own thang and get on with life.

Still, the longevity issue will remain in my head. Something I ponder about usually.

Like I said, if you mods can take this down, I would appreciate it.

Or maybe not huh? Kind of like a reminder to be more appreciative. I did feel like shit as soon as I posted this thread. Big fuck up.

Sorry, no can do on taking the thread down. You can edit your posts if you wish, but we are not able to delete the thread.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

Yeah man, I know. Then I will just focus all the attention on me, then the next college student who is learning about the world will be repeating everything I am saying.

Again, the discussion was more focused on her spending money on things she shouldn't more for her benefit, but it's all good. She isn't buying meat anymore. She has at least made a switch to vegetarianism but...... Yeah. I have to do physics homework. I have conversations like this all the time, but it seems to be futile in the end, because we just return to the rut and take part in the things that give us pleasure.

I just have to centralize my efforts on studying right now. I procrastinate with things like this all the time.

But, it's something that matters is the reason that draws me back.

College students have been saying exactly these things for as long as there have been colleges. It is part of the pride of youth. Enjoy the memories.

[the_iron Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close the_iron]

As for the argument, to put everything in a concise manner, she has been buying fast food for my brothers a lot lately. I am vegan and try to educate my family on how plant based is cheaper and healthier blah blah blah, but that is besides the point. I was trying to get her to understand that this is hurting her funds and it adds up quickly. She spends over a hundred bucks in several days and I was just going over some numbers and showing her that this money could be used for other things especially in emergency scenarios and the benefit for the family.

I am not working too much due to being a full time student, and my is single and supporting three boys. This is one of the easier arguments, and I didn't even entertain it for that long. I left as soon as I saw the rage compiling within her. I came back to just say, "Can we actually discuss this," and she yelled at me to just leave her alone.

It'a like she's a child, but she is paying the bills. I just would like her to have more funds just in case shit happens.

There are more scenarios, and some really personal ones, but I don't need to go down those rabbit holes.

Edit: I did not know the woman you are describing here is your mom. I thought you meant your girlfriend who buys stuff for your brothers etc. Opps my bad!


I am also logical - too logical. And so many years ago, I think I was 19 or something, I realized that I would have a super hard time in my life dealing with women and a lot of men/people.

So I concluded that the solutions are either:

Change others/get frustrated when they don't change or

Learn to work at their level of logic.

I chose the later. And it has been a pleasing journey to say the least. It actually takes a lot of genius to NOT be logical. But when you crack it, you realize that it is so much fun and the people around you regard you as a fun/humorous person.

Now down to your cases, it is logically true that vegan diet is the best diet there is. I am vegan myself. So how do you frame it to others that you love?

Many years ago I was in a long term relationship that lasted 5 years. My girlfriend turned vegan - voluntarily. My mom, sisters and brothers would all eat vegan diet when they came to visit or when I was around them. Now I am a bachelor with lots of [illogical] female friends. And they all want to eat like me. So when they go to buy my food for cooking, they shop vegan all while they have the option of buying pounds of meat/junk for themselves.

So how do I do it? How do you do it?

Answer, do NOT use logic to explain. In fact don't explain anything to them.

So when they ask, "you don't eat meat?"
I answer, "I don't enjoy being stupid." All with a straight face and disinterested attitude. This normally causes them to laugh.

They ask, "so meat makes people stupid?"
I answer while continuing to do my stuff, "Yeah. Plus you are always tired all the time and you need to sleep like a snake after eating a goat etc... plus my job requires a lot of maths and when I do meat I can't think. But you don't worry, you can be stupid and it won't matter much. It is not like you need extra brains for anything like maths or thinking..." To this they almost always conclude, "I am eating like you today."

Edit: I did not know the woman you are describing here is your mom. You used a lot of 'She' without saying 'my mom'. I thought you meant your girlfriend who buys stuff for your brothers etc. Opps my bad! This last part refers only to girlfriend and NEVER EVER to your mother.

Now on your girlfriend buying junk with her money. You do NOT, you NEVER want to make her feel like she is stupid and not seeing what you are seeing.

Their reasoning is this: It is HER money and she CHOOSES how she spends it. PERIOD. Plus you living with your mom and with all those brains you can't even spend like her and yet you are here advising her on what she should do and at the same time behaving like you are the genius of the world. You see where I am going with this? It causes rage, and from their perspective rightfully so.

And so how would I have approached this? There are a million and one ways to do it. Here are a few:
1. Over do it. I.e insist on her bringing fast food to ALL your brothers DAILY and get really mad if she fails. "Today you haven't brought fast food? Have we offended you or something? Why do you hate us like this." If she says she ran out of money, you answer "Work harder! We were beginning to like you for being all caring and now you are failing us."

If she "works harder" you can let it go on for a month and one day say, "Dear, you are the perfect girlfriend, you have really been taking care of this family. I like. Now today we will be buying only fruits, we really do care about them, feed them healthy. Let us go buy. An apple a day keeps the doctor away..."

2. Ask her for a loan - a huge amount

3. Open an excel sheet and create a graph called "Kate's Fast Foods". Fill in the graph everyday she brings in fast food. Make it humorous.

4. Get 'mad' for her buying your brothers stuff and nothing for you. Say it 'feels' like bribe.

5. Ask her to take you on vacation.

6. Tell your brothers not to accept gifts from her. The excuse? Whatever: "It makes you feel uncomfortable", "You don't like it", "She should be buying me things not you", "She is broke and she just can't say it..." etc

7. Create a saving fund, an emergency fund and praise it to her how it is good for the family. Make her have mandatory minimum contributions per week.

8. Think and use a thoughtful wayout instead of your 'talking and blubbering about it'

You can see that to pass your logic to others requires extra effort from you. The worst way of doing it is to 'tell' them. The best way is to be skilled at communication and include mostly indirect approach.

[closed251 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close closed251]

No, yeah. I am a fucking asshole. No excuse for it. I have apologized to her several times today, and feel like doing so again. She's sleeping right now. Just gotta do my own thang and get on with life.

Still, the longevity issue will remain in my head. Something I ponder about usually.

Like I said, if you mods can take this down, I would appreciate it.

Or maybe not huh? Kind of like a reminder to be more appreciative. I did feel like shit as soon as I posted this thread. Big fuck up.

I don't think you need this took down. It's how you felt at the time.

And it takes much more than that to be arsehole

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

@the_iron

Thanks man. I really appreciate your post. I have had conversations where I am just being casual but using logic to point out the stupidities and we all get a good laugh. I'm not this super hardcore dude that is super logical about everything. But, yeah I do get passionate about things. It's just, when you read actual data and see the direction the world is heading in, you kind of do get passionate about it unless you're a psychopath. I'm not gonna abandon it entirely, just be have a different approach with a little more charisma and/or humor.

I am not gonna be aggressive with my mom though. She has enough on her plate. I am selling one of my cars for about $2,000 and giving her the money just for some cash.

To be honest, I wouldn't of started this thread had one of my really good friends had been available. But, there is a common theme here that would have matched the perspective of my friend as well, so my venting would have recieved similar advice.

S'all good. I'm a lover at the end of the day above anything else. I am a fucking nerd and go hardcore on the research, and because I have been doing tons of math, science and coding classes, it really exercises the logical part of my brain. Connect the two, and it affects how I interact with the world. It's not a bad thing because individuals who have the luxury of obtaining this get real passionate about things, but it does affect your relationships.

I'll find a middle ground for sure though.

[TheZZWoman Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZWoman]

The_Iron: "So when they ask, "you don't eat meat?"
I answer, "I don't enjoy being stupid." All with a straight face and disinterested attitude. This normally causes them to laugh.

They ask, "so meat makes people stupid?"
I answer while continuing to do my stuff, "Yeah. Plus you are always tired all the time and you need to sleep like a snake after eating a goat etc... plus my job requires a lot of maths and when I do meat I can't think. But you don't worry, you can be stupid and it won't matter much. It is not like you need extra brains for anything like maths or thinking..." To this they almost always conclude, "I am eating like you today."

Sorry, you are illogical. Meat does not prevent you from being smart. Humans are carnivorous by their make-up and meat was a vital part in keeping us healthy. Thanks to scientific break throughs, we no longer depend on meat to get the vital nutrients found there. There are now substitutes for the proteins found in meat and humans have now found ways to combat other problems people in the past have encountered from lack of meat in their diet. So it is now completely safe to be vegan if that is how you choose to live your life. You just keep finding people that are not very smart to try your con game so that they can boost your ego.

I come from a family of "maths" as you put it who all joyfully consider themselves meat and potato eaters, we were raised that way. Father 89 yrs old - Electrical engineer only eats meat and potatoes with lots of gravy, very few vegetables. Still quick as a whip and doesn't need a calculator to solve any problem. Oldest Brother 64 yrs. old - Electrical engineer same diet as father. Middle Brother - Electrical engineer - has a very balanced diet due to a liver imbalance but still enjoys meat. Youngest Brother - Nuclear engineer - same diet as father with exception of loving fried food, will fry up anything and eat it. All 4 are extremely intelligent and they are highly admired in their careers. I just wish elitists like you wouldn't keep trying to push your ideas on other people. If it is right for you, then by all means live your life that way but stop looking down your nose at us meat eaters and claiming that your smarter than us.

By the way - I am a meat eater and a mathy - I chose to teach our future engineers instead of becoming one and my oldest sister is vegan - the most unhealthy of the bunch. Just spoke with her the other day about all her aches and pains. So sorry, your logic falls short! If meat is making you stupid, you may want to try eating it instead of hitting yourself over the head with it.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

The_Iron: "So when they ask, "you don't eat meat?"
I answer, "I don't enjoy being stupid." All with a straight face and disinterested attitude. This normally causes them to laugh.

They ask, "so meat makes people stupid?"
I answer while continuing to do my stuff, "Yeah. Plus you are always tired all the time and you need to sleep like a snake after eating a goat etc... plus my job requires a lot of maths and when I do meat I can't think. But you don't worry, you can be stupid and it won't matter much. It is not like you need extra brains for anything like maths or thinking..." To this they almost always conclude, "I am eating like you today."

Sorry, you are illogical. Meat does not prevent you from being smart. Humans are carnivorous by their make-up and meat was a vital part in keeping us healthy. Thanks to scientific break throughs, we no longer depend on meat to get the vital nutrients found there. There are now substitutes for the proteins found in meat and humans have now found ways to combat other problems people in the past have encountered from lack of meat in their diet. So it is now completely safe to be vegan if that is how you choose to live your life. You just keep finding people that are not very smart to try your con game so that they can boost your ego.

I come from a family of "maths" as you put it who all joyfully consider themselves meat and potato eaters, we were raised that way. Father 89 yrs old - Electrical engineer only eats meat and potatoes with lots of gravy, very few vegetables. Still quick as a whip and doesn't need a calculator to solve any problem. Oldest Brother 64 yrs. old - Electrical engineer same diet as father. Middle Brother - Electrical engineer - has a very balanced diet due to a liver imbalance but still enjoys meat. Youngest Brother - Nuclear engineer - same diet as father with exception of loving fried food, will fry up anything and eat it. All 4 are extremely intelligent and they are highly admired in their careers. I just wish elitists like you wouldn't keep trying to push your ideas on other people. If it is right for you, then by all means live your life that way but stop looking down your nose at us meat eaters and claiming that your smarter than us.

By the way - I am a meat eater and a mathy - I chose to teach our future engineers instead of becoming one and my oldest sister is vegan - the most unhealthy of the bunch. Just spoke with her the other day about all her aches and pains. So sorry, your logic falls short! If meat is making you stupid, you may want to try eating it instead of hitting yourself over the head with it.

Sorry I see this first part as classically off truth. We are omnivorous. We eat both plant and animal. Or we can decide which part of either. The rest I agree with fotally.

[TheZZWoman Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZWoman]

Sorry I see this first part as classically off truth. We are omnivorous. We eat both plant and animal. Or we can decide which part of either. The rest I agree with fotally.

You are correct, I stand corrected!

[Tamora Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Aug 2015 PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Tamora]

Everyone being nice in 'ere?

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

@TheZZWoman

Sorry honey, your information isn't correct. We are not even omnivorous. Straight up herbivores.

We have carbohydrate digesting enzymes in our mouths, a feature carnivores and omnivores do not have. This feature is observed throughout pretty much all Herbivores.

Humans livers cannot detoxify vitamin A, a feature that is observed in all herbivores as well. Omnivores and carnivores do have livers to detoxify vitamin A.

The PH in our stomachs are 4-5, similar to herbivores as well, 4-5. Carnivores and omnivores have a ph of less than 1, really fucking acidic. Makes sense because of the dense tissues.

Our small intestines are 10-12 times the length of our own bodies similar to herbivores. Carnivores and omnivores are about 3-6 times their length.

When we eat animal products, they sit in our colon and ferment and release a gas called hydrogen sulfide (H2S) for my chemistry folks, and it basically shreds our DNA further promoting oxidative stress. Rapidly increasing the rate at which our telomeres shorten. Find out why telomeres are important for out health. You'll be astounded.

Like, I have so much more. I can literally type here for fucking hours. You see all this evidence, and yet people still are not convinced. You have to at some point relinquish yourself of all this programming society has etched into your mind. It's really ridiculous and, yah. I am already falling back in the trap of all this again. But it's ok to be wrong. Like I said, correct your actions once you have the knowledge and become a better person for it.

To just dismiss it and keep going on doing what you're doing because you think you're right, it is really childish. That's what humans will really always be. Just for a few, they will truly understand their core behaviors and correct them for the best. If you read my post, I used to be fully keto carnivore. It took me about a week to fully put my ego to the side, and just say, "Yah, I'm wrong. This is better in all aspects and I want to be better from here on out."

I really want to entertain this discussion more, but to say we have anatomy of an omnivore, that's wrong. Science provides the evidence to conclude this is wrong. A fact is a fact is a fact is a fact is a fact!

And if you deny that then...... Well, there are many words to describe. Not to be pretentious.

I want what is best for this world, but when it comes down to it, we humans make decisions and they do have the most impact in this world due to us being a needy species. We can't reach some sort of equilibrium with this planet like most species. We have to heavily augment nature to suit our needs because we can't properly adapt with nature. Cutting down on the amount of resources you use is really an admirable thing, and one really big thing that you can do is just change your diet. It's really not all that hard.

All right, well I'm done. I have shitloads of homework to do. I may revisit this thread tomorrow. Take care.

[Jay1983 Senior MemberMember of the Month Apr 2014, Sept 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close Jay1983]

Everyone being nice in 'ere?

Aye! Who the fook are you!?

[Tamora Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Aug 2015 PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Tamora]

Aye! Who the fook are you!?

My worst nightmare!

[Jay1983 Senior MemberMember of the Month Apr 2014, Sept 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close Jay1983]

My worst nightmare!

Is that like some sort of horse that only comes out at night? What the fook!