Ukraine

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Ok members talk

[Dangler Senior Administrator☼ Wizard ☼ White Tiger Award 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Dangler]

Someone is playing Chess, the other is playing Checkers.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Someone is playing Chess, the other is playing Checkers.

And many will die

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Russian members i do no hold you responsible for the actions of your govt .
Ukarine members your chandr to speak.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Russia has launched an all-out invasion of Ukraine by land, air and sea, the biggest attack by one state against another in Europe since World War II and confirmation of the worst fears of the West. The attacks began on Thursday after Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a televised address that he had approved a “special military operation”. The move came after Moscow earlier recognised rebel-held territories in Luhansk and Donetsk and said they had asked for its “help”. Russian missiles rained down on Ukrainian cities. Ukraine reported columns of troops pouring across its borders into the eastern Chernihiv, Kharkiv and Luhansk regions, and landing by sea at the cities of Odesa and Mariupol in the south. Russian troops attacked Ukraine from Belarus, as well as from Russia with Belarusian support. An attack was also being launched from the annexed Crimean Peninsula, Ukraine’s border guard service said. Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons in Kyiv, Ukraine.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Is Belarus actuvely fighting on the russian side on just supporting?

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

Once a lying, murderous KBG agent, always a lying murderous KBG agent. He even convinced the Chines to go along with his invasion.

[BlueMorpho Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BlueMorpho]

I'll go out on a limb here... unless members here are either Ukrainian or Russian - or have an equivalent wealth of cultural/language knowledge of the region - opinions and ideas (for or against Russia) here are bound to be a repetition of what you've already read in the media.

Only thing I will say: I'm against all wars. And if it was said that all diplomacy attempts were "exhausted", then I say all parties involved either didn't try hard enough or never intended to resolve the matter through peaceful means in the first place (and that usually means BOTH sides failed).

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

I do not claim to be an expert on Ukrainian/Russian relations; however, I did take a course on Russian history in college and as a history buff, I have done some research into the evolution of the existence of Ukraine as an “independent” state. In short, the history of the Ukraine is very complicated and complex.

The region now encompassing Ukraine and surrounding areas,being ruled be a number of principalities, became known as Kievan Rus in the 11th century and was the largest state in Europe. The name Ukraine first appeared on maps in the 16th century. The individual principalities were ruled by grand dukes. At one point during this period, the region was ruled by a Hungarian nobleman, but eventually the region came under the control of the Mogol Empire in the 14th century. The Mogol invaders were eventually fought off by Lithuania and Poland resulting in the north/northwest region coming under control of Lithuania and the south/southwest region coming under control of Poland, with the jointly ruled regions subsequently combining to form a Commonwealth. Then in the mid 16 hundreds along came the Cossacks to fight off the rule of the Commonwealth and petitioned Russia to help overthrow the Commonwealth resulting in a treaty in 1667 splitting control between the Commonwealth and Russia. Under the Russian protectorate, the Cossacks retained some autonomy; however, During subsequent decades, Tsarist rule over central Ukraine gradually replaced 'protection'. Sporadic Cossack uprisings were now aimed at the Russian authorities, but eventually petered out by the late 18th century and most of Ukraine fell under Russian rule under the reign of Catherine the Great.

The Ukrainian War of Independence (1917 - 1919) produced the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic which agreed to join the Soviet Union. After World War II some amendments to the Constitution of the Ukranian SSR were accepted, which allowed it to act as a separate subject of International law in some cases and to a certain extent, remaining a part of the Soviet Union at the same time. With the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine became an independent state, formalised with a referendum of December 1991. Over 90% of Ukrainians voted for independence with majorities in every region also voting for independence.

[BlueMorpho Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BlueMorpho]

I do not claim to be an expert on Ukrainian/Russian relations; however, I did take a course on Russian history in college and as a history buff, I have done some research into the evolution of the existence of Ukraine as an “independent” state. In short, the history of the Ukraine is very complicated and complex.

The region now encompassing Ukraine and surrounding areas,being ruled be a number of principalities, became known as Kievan Rus in the 11th century and was the largest state in Europe. The name Ukraine first appeared on maps in the 16th century. The individual principalities were ruled by grand dukes. At one point during this period, the region was ruled by a Hungarian nobleman, but eventually the region came under the control of the Mogol Empire in the 14th century. The Mogol invaders were eventually fought off by Lithuania and Poland resulting in the north/northwest region coming under control of Lithuania and the south/southwest region coming under control of Poland, with the jointly ruled regions subsequently combining to form a Commonwealth. Then in the mid 16 hundreds along came the Cossacks to fight off the rule of the Commonwealth and petitioned Russia to help overthrow the Commonwealth resulting in a treaty in 1667 splitting control between the Commonwealth and Russia. Under the Russian protectorate, the Cossacks retained some autonomy; however, During subsequent decades, Tsarist rule over central Ukraine gradually replaced 'protection'. Sporadic Cossack uprisings were now aimed at the Russian authorities, but eventually petered out by the late 18th century and most of Ukraine fell under Russian rule under the reign of Catherine the Great.

The Ukrainian War of Independence (1917 - 1919) produced the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic which agreed to join the Soviet Union. After World War II some amendments to the Constitution of the Ukranian SSR were accepted, which allowed it to act as a separate subject of International law in some cases and to a certain extent, remaining a part of the Soviet Union at the same time. With the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine became an independent state, formalised with a referendum of December 1991. Over 90% of Ukrainians voted for independence with majorities in every region also voting for independence.

It's a great start, even if you're not an expert. Thanks for sharing.

If I can add a tidbit that might be of interest. As someone who appreciates Byzantine (Eastern Roman Empire) culture, the Kievan Rus (modern Ukraine) established trade and cultural relationships with the Byzantine Empire. I am almost certain that they inherited Orthodox Christianity from the teachings of Byzantine missionaries Cyril & Methodius. The tough Varangian (Rus) warriors served as an elite corps in the Byzantine army (Varangian guard). Some say that even after the capture of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks in 1453, it would seem that the Rus became the sole preservers of what was left of Byzantine culture, a bizarre but fascinating mixture of Greek, Roman and Near Eastern cultures.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

I'll go out on a limb here... unless members here are either Ukrainian or Russian - or have an equivalent wealth of cultural/language knowledge of the region - opinions and ideas (for or against Russia) here are bound to be a repetition of what you've already read in the media.

Only thing I will say: I'm against all wars. And if it was said that all diplomacy attempts were "exhausted", then I say all parties involved either didn't try hard enough or never intended to resolve the matter through peaceful means in the first place (and that usually means BOTH sides failed).

No only a child would think both sides have to fail in a diplomacy . it is obvious BOTH SIDES have to be interested for diplomacy to work .That is if either side is not in good faith it will fail .

[BlueMorpho Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BlueMorpho]

No only a child would think both sides have to fail in a diplomacy . it is obvious BOTH SIDES have to be interested for diplomacy to work .That is if either side is not in good faith it will fail .

What do you guys think? I guess Peg here doesn't like me much... trying to school me on logic n' all. The living reference on diplomacy.

Have a good one, Peg!

[Dangler Senior Administrator☼ Wizard ☼ White Tiger Award 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Dangler]

We all need to express our point of view, with a degree of respect to one another, and each person's point of view. We do have our respect policy.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Did any of you think diplomacy would work? If you did I want to know what drug you're taking and I bet it's not legal.
How can you put pressure on Putin when you're importing about 600,000 barrels of oil a day from the guy at a 100 bucks a barrel? We gave him the money to invade Ukraine. Well done Joe.

[BlueMorpho Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BlueMorpho]

Did any of you think diplomacy would work? If you did I want to know what drug you're taking and I bet it's not legal.
How can you put pressure on Putin when you're importing about 600,000 barrels of oil a day from the guy at a 100 bucks a barrel? We gave him the money to invade Ukraine. Well done Joe.

I agree that Putin seems to be in a better position to dictate terms.

Not sure that diplomacy was impossible to achieve though. Looking at Zelensky's profile, I just wonder how on Earth he managed to get elected. The man has virtually zero qualifications for the job. I am not defending Putin here. I am simply suggesting that a more competent person for the presidency of Ukraine may have taken a better stab at diplomacy. But of course, no guarantee that would have avoided war either..