Immigrant situation in Europe and sexual crimes toward women

[marinera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marinera]

These Countries were not crying for help when the West invaded them, exploited theirs resources and put puppet reignants in charge there. Or when stole arabs' land and gave them to Israel.

When the West did intervene....do you mean when the West told that Saddam had nuclear weapons, lying, killing for no reason the dictator the West himself had put in charge before, and left that Country in the hands of thughs? Because the origin of ISIS lies there, you know.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

These Countries were not crying for help when the West invaded them, exploited theirs resources and put puppet reignants in charge there. Or when stole arabs' land and gave them to Israel.

When the West did intervene....do you mean when the West told that Saddam had nuclear weapons, lying, killing for no reason the dictator the West himself had put in charge before, and left that Country in the hands of thughs? Because the origin of ISIS lies there, you know.

Oh come on . Are you a spokesperson for Isis, cause that is what this sounds like.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Oh by the way m I reject the argument you mount here which seems to be you should provide a first world lifestyle to whoever turns up.

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Then, we have economic immigrants; they are not refugee, so they could be repatriate; the problem is that repatriating them will carry them back again in most of cases, and anyway will probably cost more resources than just helping them and giving them some kind of job. It is doable. Also, be aware that to repatriate an immigrant, will need the cooperation of the Country where the immigrant is coming from; you can't just get an airbus and carry people in another Country' land, if there isn't a treatie, not even if that people are coming from that very same land.
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[marinera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marinera]

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So the first question is are the new immigrants hard working people who will add to euro cultural development in a positive way?....

If you are in Rome and want a coffee or something to eat at 11 pm or 5 am, chances are you'll get them only in a shop run by middle east immigrants. And most of the people working in campaigns harvesting olives, tomatoes or such, are African arabs. Some of them die for fatigue. And get paid so low that they have to sleep in abandoned ruins or 12 in a small apartment. It closely resembles what Italians have gone through when emigrated in South of US, as told by John Grisham in A painted house.

If a people gets integrated in a new Country, it is a consequesence of the structure of the Country. US, Germany, Australia, where hard places for immigrants, but with a decent level of fairness. That has done the trick.


About the cultural contribution, these people are coming from places that have a pluri-millenarian history. Their cultural contribution, hope this doesn't sounds inflaming, is, potentially, higher than the contribution of an American or Aussie. Many of them speak at least two languages, where how many languages most of Americans of English or Italians can decently speak? Only one. Just saying.

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2 ) So will they call themselves French or German or European or will they say they are arab.? ...

Will French, German etc. call them arab? Will French, German, English etc. will make them feel as 2d class citizens? This is the real point. Anyone wants to assimilate, it's not that I go in Australia and want to oblige every Australian to drink cappuccino in the morning and eat spaghetti at lunch, right? Probably my sons will eat spaghetti at lunch, by they will feel proud to be Australians, or even better Italo-Australians. Does Quentin Tarantino or Martin Scorsese feel proud to be Italo-Americans? Sure. Does that makes them less Americans? Nope.

Look that I am not saying that there aren't intolerant components in the Islamic culture and that there isn't a cultural gap between Islamic culture and European culture; there are. But not all the immigrants are Islamic, first point, and people can get better fast, if you are not always remembering them that they are different.

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Third are the million or 2 currently on their way all there is ? Now I can answer 3 for you right now, no they are not .

If all the people who live there would come here, a lot of Europeans could go in their lands, which are very rich of resources - oil to start with. I am not sure I get what you are implying with this question; do you suggest that we start shooting at them or what?

Immigration is a long term problem, which requires a long term solution; the solution is, simply: more fairness. What I see is that Europe is reacting with less fairness, which is blind and will make the problem worse.

[marinera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marinera]

Oh by the way m I reject the argument you mount here which seems to be you should provide a first world lifestyle to whoever turns up.

Quote
Then, we have economic immigrants; they are not refugee, so they could be repatriate; the problem is that repatriating them will carry them back again in most of cases, and anyway will probably cost more resources than just helping them and giving them some kind of job. It is doable. Also, be aware that to repatriate an immigrant, will need the cooperation of the Country where the immigrant is coming from; you can't just get an airbus and carry people in another Country' land, if there isn't a treatie, not even if that people are coming from that very same land.
Unquote

I don't understand where are you getting that. We have to provide them the humanitarian help that is needed to avoid that they die. It's not just a legal burden, it is basic civilty. Then they will earn their level of welfare through their work.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Ok marinera you are arguing yes to 1 and 2 whereas others are saying no.

You also seem to suggest a countless number should be provided a first world lifestyle by turning up in Europe.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Hmm with regard to q 1&2 ,I feel these are questions the euro's should ask themselves .

Now marinera suggests it is up to the host country to make itself "fair" . What do Europeans in general think?
I can tell you for sure that not everyone wants to assimilate . Is there the risk that the current group will want to change the law and culture of the host country in a way the hosts don't want ? Now I can tell you there are immigrants here that do want to do that despite the veting the aussie govt has done. They are just not numerous enough to effect change.
A guideline for the euro to consider is how have the immigrants from that region behaved so far (I understand some have been there for generations ) . Has it varied from country to country ? If so what variables made for a better result? Can the variables be changed to give a better result ?

The first variable the aussie govt changed is not just accepting whoever turned up .

So we try to vet that they are not a terrorist or a criminal and that they will accept the basic aussie ethos . Now of course the process is imperfect but for the most part it has turned out ok . We try to provide an environment they can find success in.

You know I like the Italian aussies now here is an important point they call themselves Italian- aussie not Italian. They were so cool during the soccer world cup ,there was an Italian team in there and a aussie team . Now to be honest the Italian team had some hope of success and the aussie team had done well just to be there . They were running around with a flag that had the aussie flag but instead of the union jack in the corner it had the Italian flag . When a reporter pulled them up to ask who they were supporting they said they were lucky and had 2 teams in it .
When asked who they would support if aussie played Italy they just said it would be a great game .

[marinera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marinera]

Ok marinera you are arguing yes to 1 and 2 whereas others are saying no.
....

Well, I must confess that I don't make my brain trying to belong to a majority, but looking at facts and reasoning.

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You also seem to suggest a countless number should be provided a first world lifestyle by turning up in Europe.

Again, I don't see where are you reading that I am saying that any kind of lifestyle should be 'provided' to anyone. It seems to me instead that you have the phobia that foreigners could earn a first class lifestyle. Do they have an original sin for which there is no redemption, do you think that they are biologically different or what?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Australia had early immigration from Afghan camel drivers who had an important role in opening up some of the more remote areas of the country. Unfortunately their culture died out and their descendents are not Muslims and know little of their ancestors culture .

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Well, I must confess that I don't make my brain trying to belong to a majority, but looking at facts and reasoning.



Again, I don't see where are you reading that I am saying that any kind of lifestyle should be 'provided' to anyone. It seems to me instead that you have the phobia that foreigners could earn a first class lifestyle. Do they have an original sin for which there is no redemption, do you think that they are biologically different or what?

It is for you euro to argue 1 & 2.

Many people of many various nations and religions came here and earned a first world lifestyle . Power to them .
They followed the proper procedure as laid down by the Aussie govt to get here . Power to them.

Your fellow euro suggest a first world lifestyle is being provided to whoever turns up

Your fellow euro

[bored Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bored]

There are about 300,000 immigrants per year in the whole EU, which counts, how many, 750 millions of inhabitants? It shouldn't be a big problem.

False statistic. There are over a million refugees in just 2015. Source: Migrant crisis: Migration to Europe explained in graphics - BBC News

And the immigration statistics (not even counting refugees) is much higher.

I think you are mistaken about the difference between refugees and *legal* immigration. We are discussing refugees who are supposed to be seeking asylum, but rather seem to be a big disruption that are taking advantage of kind countries.

[marinera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marinera]

It is for you euro to argue 1 & 2.
...
Your fellow euro suggest a first world lifestyle is being provided to whoever turns up

Your fellow euro

Right. You tried to put that in my mouth, now you say it is 'my fellow euro' that said that.

[marinera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marinera]

False statistic. There are over a million refugees in just 2015. Source: Migrant crisis: Migration to Europe explained in graphics - BBC News

And the immigration statistics (not even counting refugees) is much higher.

I think you are mistaken about the difference between refugees and *legal* immigration. We are discussing refugees who are supposed to be seeking asylum, but rather seem to be a big disruption that are taking advantage of kind countries.

Actully, your source says that migrants+refugee are over 1 million, and that is mixing immigrants from ASIA and Middle East with immigrants coming from everywhere; and also people who move from an european country to another.

Anyway, let's say that they are 1 million per year, and let's say that there 500 millions of inhabitants in Europe. This means that in 50 years immigrants will be 10% of original population. Which is quite an ordinary rate of immigration.

[bored Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bored]

Actully, your source says that migrants+refugee are over 1 million, and that is mixing immigrants from ASIA and Middle East with immigrants coming from everywhere; and also people who move from an european country to another.

Anyway, let's say that they are 1 million per year, and let's say that there 500 millions of inhabitants in Europe. This means that in 50 years immigrants will be 10% of original population. Which is quite an ordinary rate of immigration.

The source is specifically showing people who are coming through Greece and Italy to reach Germany from Syria and other north african & middle eastern countries.

You are comparing the entire population of Europe, that's not accurate.

As you said before, some countries are not going to allow any refugees, and most will allow only a bit.
Sweden is sending 80,000 back. Sweden Seeks to Deport Tens of Thousands of Asylum Seekers - Bloomberg Business

Really about a million migrants are in Germany alone (look at the picture that I linked before). We're not talking ALL of Europe. Anyway, Germany has a population of about 80 million. So a million is 1.25% of the population. You can't just drop 1.25% of the population in who have no job and don't speak the language and say that is a good thing.

That's how things like this happen REVEALED: 1,000+ Migrants Brawl, Rape, Sexually Assault, And Steal At ONE German Train Station On New Year's Eve

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Right. You tried to put that in my mouth, now you say it is 'my fellow euro' that said that.

Go back through the thread check the posts particularly purple ones .

I am suggesting your posts seem to say anyone who turns up should be accepted .