The Collagen Thread

[Sanjuro Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sanjuro]

So there I am, upon giveitago's suggestion I find this thread, looking at collagen supplements, and I vow, until more information and testimonials are given, to not just buy supplements on a whim coz I'm a sucker for that sort of thing. Around $85 later, my order has been submitted and I should have it at the start of next week. I'll keep everyone informed.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

There are actually 29 known types of collagen. Here is a breakdown of the 5 most common and their respective functions.

• Collagen One: skin, tendon, vascular, ligature, organs, bone (main component of bone)
• Collagen Two: cartilage (main component of cartilage)
• Collagen Three: reticulate (main component of reticular fibers), commonly found alongside type I.
• Collagen Four: forms bases of cell basement membrane
• Collagen Five: cells surfaces, hair and placenta

To me, if you are supplementing, type 2 would be the most logical for PE. I'm still not sure this would be a good thing long term but again, despite it appearing to be counter-productive, it might be a great find?

[Unit Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Unit]

Damn it! Now I'm curious, I'm going to end up spending an asinine amount of time look at collagen effects, uses, types etc. Thanks lot. LOL, There is already a lot of good stuff here about it. I doubt that I'll have an Epiphany. I'll post my finds if I do. This is the kind of crap that I end up spending hours, over days researching, (just what I needed something new to obsess about).

[isambard Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close isambard]

I have no idea what the mechanism is. If I had to make a wild uneducated guess it would be that extending over long periods of time causes spacing in the tissue, that space then fills with new cell growth.. it's looking to the body for collagen to make that growth occur and when supplementing with collagen it finds it readily available, thus speeding up the creation of the new tissue.

Sounds a reasonable theory to me. Could it really be that simple though? I'd like to think so.

Damn it! Now I'm curious, I'm going to end up spending an asinine amount of time look at collagen effects, uses, types etc. Thanks lot. LOL, There is already a lot of good stuff here about it. I doubt that I'll have an Epiphany. I'll post my finds if I do. This is the kind of crap that I end up spending hours, over days researching, (just what I needed something new to obsess about).

Parallel lives my American cousin, parallel lives!!

[Sanjuro Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sanjuro]

Where the crap is my collagen dammit?! I ordered it a week ago... I'm so impatient, which isn't a good trait for a PE-er I know but excitement is the antithesis of patience.
Dunno if its of any concern but there is an article posted regarding the anatomical structure of the penis by Doc Richard Howard the 2nd... (resist making... Richard joke on PE website... ahh), and specifically the Tunica Albuginea.

He mentions collagenous layers and how it makes up certain parts of the penis; what's concerning is in his article he says how someone with multiple layers of collagenous fibres in the penis have more trouble gaining than those with less.

I suppose applying logic to this statement, and remember this is just me trying to make an extrapolation and guess, I come to 2 reasonings about what's potentially happening when we supplement with collagen. I'm no biologist, doctor, just taking a stab in the dark.

1: Tunica thickening; by supplementing with collegen we're creating more tunica which may explain girth increases as well as mild length increases as well as proported "stretchy" feel of the penis; I suppose this could be likened to going from a thin rubber band to something thicker and stronger, I hope this isn't the case.

2: Increased collagen "synthesis": considering alot of the penis is made up of collagen, not just the tunica, we may in fact be enhancing recovery of penis internal structure beyond the normal capacity of a low collagen diet; giving the penis increased resources from which to repair and replace damaged cells from exercising, and to fill in cell gaps from extending as well, basically the same idea when Body builders supplement with protein. There may also be an increase in tunica's ability to stretch as the tunica may utilize increased collagen to create a larger tunica but not necessarily a thicker tunica, which too might explain the "stretchy" feel of the penis.

This theory may or may not apply; but when a muscle cell is damaged after load bearing, the cellular size increases, this is called hypertrophy, and that's why we lift weights to grow bigger supported by proper dietary requirements. The penis is not a muscle so we can't use hypertrophy to create a bigger penis, what we can use however is called "Hyperplasia" which is an actual increase in number of cells as opposed to cell size. Its this theory that all PE is built upon; that damage to the penis cells at a microlevel causes the cells to split and multiply.

Perhaps taking collagen allows for an increase in hyperplasia due to the increase of essential building blocks to penis cells.

Just taking a blind guess as to what's actually happening. I'll use the collagen as directed (WHEN I GET IT DAMMIT) and see if there's any noticable difference and keep you all informed.

[Wantmorebulge Member Find all posts View Profile Close Wantmorebulge]

I wouldn't worry about the type of collagen you eat, as it will be broken down into it's constituent amino acids in the stomach. The types are important when considering changes occurring inside the body, such as the changes to collagen typing as a result from changes to sheer strain applied to the tunica.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

...There may also be an increase in tunica's ability to stretch as the tunica may utilize increased collagen to create a larger tunica but not necessarily a thicker tunica, which too might explain the "stretchy" feel of the penis.

Interesting. Penile connective tissue (tunica included) is composed of roughly 50% collagen, 50% elastin. I'm not sure an increase in collagen would produce an increase of elasticity. Elastin would however.

[Sanjuro Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sanjuro]

A good point Iguana, my hypothesis is merely... I guess for lack of a better explanation, mental masturbation, just my mind trying to come to terms with what I'd guess is happening.

Still don't have my collagen, which annoys me, but I'll remain... patient.

[Wantmorebulge Member Find all posts View Profile Close Wantmorebulge]

Interesting. Penile connective tissue (tunica included) is composed of roughly 50% collagen, 50% elastin. I'm not sure an increase in collagen would produce an increase of elasticity. Elastin would however.

What is your evidence that there is 50% elastin in the tunica albuginea? Have you got a reference? My recallection was that the elastin content was a lot lower than this.

The rigidity of collagen comes from the extent of cross-linking. I agree that an increase in elastin would increase elasticity. The problem is that eating collagen or elastin does not automatically increase collagen or elastin anywhere in the body. When you consume proteins in your diet, your body breaks them down into their amino acids which the body can manufacture what it needs from them.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

What is your evidence that there is 50% elastin in the tunica albuginea? Have you got a reference? My recallection was that the elastin content was a lot lower than this.

The rigidity of collagen comes from the extent of cross-linking. I agree that an increase in elastin would increase elasticity. The problem is that eating collagen or elastin does not automatically increase collagen or elastin anywhere in the body. When you consume proteins in your diet, your body breaks them down into their amino acids which the body can manufacture what it needs from them.

Sorry, my bad. I was thinking CC & CS. I think you are right about the percentages being much lower. But this would make the addition of collagen much less likely to increase elasticity. I was also wrong on the collagen type. It is type 1. Maybe I should just shut up.


This is encouraging... Not.

The tunica albuginea is composed of fibrillar (mainly type I but also types III and V) collagen in organized arrays interlaced with elastin fibers.22,24 Peyronie's plaques are also composed almost entirely of types I and III collagen.24,25 While collagen has a greater tensile strength than steel -it is unyielding. In contrast, elastin can be stretched up to 150%, of its length.22 It is the elastin content that allows the compliance of the tunica albuginea and helps to determine stretched penile length.26
http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v.../3900875a.html

[justwannabebig Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close justwannabebig]

This thread is getting so so so goood!

keep it comming guys

[Wantmorebulge Member Find all posts View Profile Close Wantmorebulge]

Sorry, my bad. I was thinking CC & CS. I think you are right about the percentages being much lower. But this would make the addition of collagen much less likely to increase elasticity. I was also wrong on the collagen type. It is type 1. Maybe I should just shut up.

This is encouraging... Not.

The tunica albuginea is composed of fibrillar (mainly type I but also types III and V) collagen in organized arrays interlaced with elastin fibers.22,24 Peyronie's plaques are also composed almost entirely of types I and III collagen.24,25 While collagen has a greater tensile strength than steel -it is unyielding. In contrast, elastin can be stretched up to 150%, of its length.22 It is the elastin content that allows the compliance of the tunica albuginea and helps to determine stretched penile length.26
Pathophysiology of Peyronie's disease

In Peyronie's, the tunica undergoes fibrosis which certainly should be avoided, but that is different from a simple increase in collagen (or elastin). Excessive stretch can lead to fibrosis, and to changes in collagen typing (as seen in soft tissue deformation when bones are experimentally stretched, and I suspect that both are attempts but the body to regain integrity through quickly increasing rigidity.

Ideally, there would be some method of increasing elastin expression locally in the tunica, but I do not know of any means to achieve this. We need something like the opposite of fibrosis, if there is such a thing.

Thanks for the reference. Oh, and please do not shut up. It is things like this that gets us closer to working out what is really going on.

[giveitago Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close giveitago]

I am looking forward to some folks posting after they have been on collagen for a month or two. I am still on it, however have had a very poor PE month and just doing enough to maintain (like 30mins lig stretches and 1hr extender), it's just because things are so hectic, but I plan to get back to 5-7hrs a day this week. I am still slowly gaining in spite of my poor PE sched. Last sexual encounter the wife had to push me back a few times and was like "whoahh!" hehe, she still says I can go for my 8" goal though so phew. I guess I need to be a little more careful on deep positions, but the length is really paying off in positions that suit a longer penis. Anyway..

[Sanjuro Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sanjuro]

Heh, sweet, we got some awesome discussion going, we're a brain trust my fellow PE-ers!

I think we've perhaps exhausted, through the excellent research and debate by Iguana and Wantmorebulge that perhaps the tunica isn't the reactive element to collagen supplementation. Its intuitive and logical to assume so, but perhaps we should look elsewhere? Such as collagen's reaction in other body parts that some how results indirectly in PE gains?

I'm out of ideas, but I'm more than willing to listen.

Still haven't gotten my DAMN COLLAGEN!!!!! I'm gonna go drink souls or flip off kittens in my rage... better take the extender off before I do though...

[Sanjuro Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sanjuro]

FINALLY!!!

Damn postal service! Anyway, I'm holding a bottle of "Hydrolyzed Collagen" made by "Puritan's pride".
Doesn't say what type of collagen it is, probably should have been a little less impulsive with my purchase of this but I'll give it a go regardless. If eternal youth is a side effect, then so be it...