Anabolic State

[scientificapproach Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scientificapproach]

Hello Everyone

I just wanted to get some opinons on an issue I have been spending some time thinking about. I have been wondering if to allow any growth in the penis your body must be in an anabolic state. Anyone who is familiar with bodybuilding should understand this term. Your body can either be in an Anabolic State (growth), a Catabolic State (destruction of itself) or a state of homoestatis (constant state). Although I am aware that your body may sometimes drift inbetween states even when your are trying very hard to keep to one state.

To get into an Anabolic State is largely a matter of correct nutrition, and the one golden rule....getting enough calories to not only maintain your body, but afew extra for growth. A Catabolic State of course requires fewer calories than maintance level.

If your are trying to build up your muscles by the use of resistance training, any bodybuilder will tell you, even if you have a perfect training routine, you MUST be in an anabolic state and have enough calories (and the right ones) to get ANY new muscle growth.

My question is simple: Do you think that the same applies for penile growth?

I guess some people dont beleive that PE causes growth, but it simply stretches current tissue. I beleive that although some stretching may occur, from having read reports by many who have gained (espeically a significant amount), I feel growth does occur!

I just wonder if to gain you must be getting enough calories and correct nutrition and protein??? Indeed I wonder if levels of anabolic hormones play a big role?

The main reason I ask is I know that I really need to go on a fat loss phase for a while to loose a few pounds that have come with gaining muscle, I know this will mean me being in a catabolic state and I know I wont be growing any new muscle tissue. I am however, very worried that this may inhbit all penile growth? But perhaps it wont, perhaps the slow growth of penis tissue may not require the same conditions as building large amounts of muscle mass?

Any thoughts from anyone appreciated, especially those who may have gained penis size through PEing while also trying to loose weight i.e. being in a catabolic state!

Many thanks

[Keido Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Keido]

I remember Bib mentioning somewhere that he actually found he had significantly better growth periods during times he was on a fat loss diet. I think others found this to be the case as well; I'm not really sure what this could mean though.

Have you ever looked into intermittent fasting? I've been into this a lot recently and found the research to be very interesting on it. Of course, I'm after fat loss and not much muscle gain, but there are plenty of guys who follow intermittent fasting diets that have a lot of muscle.

TheIFLife - Simple Fat Loss, Muscle, Health and Longevity might be a good resource to check out.

I've kind of worried about this myself, but my gains didn't really stall when I was doing intermittent fasting, I found I just needed to find a routine that works well for me and the gains seem to come.

[scientificapproach Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scientificapproach]

Thanks for your reply Keido. Im glad Im not the only one who has worried about this issue!

I also know that some people talk of the holy grail of "loosing fat while simultaniously gaining muscle". Many claim its impossible, and most at least (and I think rightly) claim its very difficult for most, as the two goals require opposing caloric intakes. But there is the possibility that the energy needed for new muscle growth can come from the burning of stored body fat. Again this may make penile growth possible even if your on a fat loss phase. But like I wonder, Im not sure how much of an issue this whole topic is?! One example could be medical traction to cause new bone growth in an accident victim, to the best of my knowledge these patients are not on bodybuilding diets or making an effort to be in an anabolic state, yet new cells grow, its just a slow process.

I think Im leaning on the view that as the penis is a relatively small body part compared to ones legs or chest, and also as the growth in the penis is usually relatively slow, I doubt this is going to tax the body to the point of needing many surplus calories. I wonder if one were to be VERY calorie restrictive if this would effect growth? I guess when you reduce your calories beyond a certain point (very low) the energy will be prioritised more towards major life preserving systems and reactions such as respiration and heart function and any new cell growth may well be stopped along with many other functions, to the point where no food kills you!

I guess these tribes women who stretch/grow their necks with rings around them are probably not on high calorie anabolic diets, and maybe are getting relatively little food, but obviously growth has occured, just slowly. Anyway these are just some of my thoughts on the issue

Thanks Keido, and if anyone else has any thing to share, please do

Thanks.

[MoreGains Banned Find all posts View Profile Close MoreGains]

I was wondering the same thing when reading a couple other theory posts. A note on BIB's gains on a fat loss diet, I don't know BIB so can't be sure how he ate before or during the diet but it could be increased nutrition as a result of a diet rather than calorie intake which might explain the results Keido spoke of. And it seems alot of PE is a result of stretching as you mentioned scientificapproach so perhaps there is less emphasis on growth of new tissue. However it certainly seems to raise an interesting point. I agree that with PE being such a low impact workout from the point of a total body perspective that calories would have very little impact upon the ability to bulk, however I think nutrition (vitamins, protein etc.) could possibly play an increased role.

[scientificapproach Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scientificapproach]

Moregains: Well one reason I do beielve that there is actual growth rather than mostly stretching is due to reading an interview with Bib (who gaine 4.5 inches). If my memory serves me correctly, I believe he stated that he believed growth had taken place as appose to purely being stretched as he felt his penis had more mass when completely flaccid and had very little blood in.

Also, I think that when you take people who have gained MANY inches such as 4-6, then how could this not include some growth of new cells? If it was purely stretching the penis would certainly not have gained girth...which these people claimed to have gained along with length. And I dont belive many people have this much inner penis to pull out (ie high LOT people).

Yes I also beleive its a very interesting topic. When i first got invloved with weight training I used to think all one had to do was lift weights, when I learned about nutrition and recovery I realised how important other factors could be!

If PE does indeed cause new cell growth, then I am pretty sure that alot of people may be neglecting rest and recovery if they work out too frequently! I would just love to know the optimum amount of time ones needs to rest for growth to take place. Another workout before growth has occured would to me seem very counterproductive! But maybe its more complex still where sopme structures require time to grow and some must be stretched.

But regarding the whole "anabolic state" thing, yes I think maybe calorie consumption is alot less of an issue than big muscle workouts which tax the body much more! But I am sure that a good healthy diet is quite important for growth. I always consume a multivitamin to make sure Im not deficiant in anything.

[MoreGains Banned Find all posts View Profile Close MoreGains]

Interesting point with BIB. I'd agree, there certainly must be some sort of new cell growth and I'm certainly in agreement on a healthy diet being important for growth.

Rest and Recovery is a whole new ball game. Given you seem to be coming strongly from a weight training perspective PE seems to be analagous to volume training rather than HIIT or other forms of intense workouts. Which would make sense given we are dealing with relatively small muscles in comparison to the rest of the body. Which leads into your question exactly how much rest is optimum for growth? As some muscle groups such as the core mucsles can be trained almost daily without overtraining wheras many others would be overtrained and possibly injured from this. I'd say this is where the PI's come in and play such an important role as along with general systematic health there is no other way to really test wether overtraining has occured.

[kingpole Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close kingpole]

Think of positive indicators being anabolic and negative indicators being catabolic. Reast periods are when your dick does its acutal growing. Are you getting enough rest periods.

Signs to look out for negative ones:
A cord like flaccid, seems harder than normal in the center.
What you want is a soft pliable flaccid.

Loss of EQ, tight ligs, dull ache. Something that will put your dick in a catabolic state for sure.
When your erection is very hard this is an anabolic state. After a frowth period your EQ may drop a bit during the growth period and after. You then need a rest break and then a cementing session for a few weeks. This is a catch 22, is it a growth period eq failure,... or just plain ol' bad eq from over working it? So then how to tell the diference. Go back to your flaccid state. If your flaccid state is soft and maleable then your Poor EQ may actually be from a growth spurt. If you have the cord like flaccid then likely you overtrained.

[MoreGains Banned Find all posts View Profile Close MoreGains]

Thanks kingpole. Very interesting with the cord like flaccid, can't say I knew that negative PI and it is always helpful to be able to pick up on what your body is telling you to determine wether overtraining has occured.

I was moreso just having fun relating PE to other aspects of body growth. Nothing really revolutionary covered here, more so just another perspective on why nutrition and rest are as important as your actual workout.

[scientificapproach Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scientificapproach]

Yes I know exactly what you mean Kingpole. When I hung weights for several sets (when i was into hanging) my penis often turtled but also it became very solid and compact, almost like a metal bullet or something. When I PE now (very lightly) I can sometimes get a fantastic flaccid "pump" where it if fuller, lower and like you say- some how more bendy and malluable. I have spoken to others on other forums about this and they have also beleived this state is a good indication of growth!

I have really been trying to recreate this flaccid pump result now in all my workouts. I always try and aim to get it the next day! However is hard to achieve every time! Once I just added 10 more jelqs (from 50 to 60) and added a little more intesity, and boom, next day I was more turtled again! Perhaps for some such as myself, the balance between too much and just enough is very fine indeed!

But perhaps other factors also play a role in this flaccid pump with a bendy core. I do feel stress and tiredness also effect the penis alot (which is common knowledge I know) but I wonder if this just affects how much blood is put into the penis, perhaps the effects of the workout can still sometimes be the same BUT just not SHOWN to be the same due to other factors...but thats me kind of thinking abit too much I think ;-) I also wonder how much masturbation effects the post workout flaccid pump?!

Interesting point about HIT Vs Volume MoreGains! Yes I often relate to bodybuilding (just because I know a bit about it). I guess the penis is more complex than a pure muscle, however maybe there are quite afew strong ties between the two?!

In theory I would look at it this way...if you approach PE with a Menzter style HIT approach, I reakon you would need alot of rest. Effectively pushing your penis more during the workout (within the realms of safety) to the penile equivilent of postive failure (its just very hard to safely gauge where this is?!), then rest up for many days. The Volume approach seems like you would train more frequently but not quite so intensly. I personally think I always require some rest after every workout even if its less intense! Incidentally, I dont know If I would recommend the HIT appraoch as pushing your penis to the limits (as in training to failure in the weights world) is obviously more dangerous, and is certainly only for the more advanced PEer with good expereince!

I actually did try really stretching pretty hard for just 10 sets (so a slightly HITesque style), trying to pull as hard as I could for 30 seconds, while still feeling safe. I took the time after each stretch to rest for as long as I needed to be fully flaccid and ready for another good stretch. I felt very pleased with the workout. But I experienced a very turtled penis for about 6 days afterwards! If this kind of approach was to work for me I would have to rest for at LEAST 7 days to expereince positive PIs again! But yet some people can hang 40 pounds or more for hours a day every day and still clain to have positive PIs!

To me, coming from a weight training background, the only slight issue I have with PIs is a time thing I guess. If you train a msucle hard in the gym you will actually notice a slight decrease in its size (ie a negative PI) temporarily as you have damaged the tissue and it is being removed (by white blood cells I believe) and then afew days later new cells grow and if your lucky you will then notice bigger muscle. So shoudlnt we theoretically expect a negative PI after PE for a day or two? I did hear somewhere that 4 days is the time required to remove damaged cells and grow new ones.

Sorry for such a long post!