why manual works so much better than devices

[lelec Member Find all posts View Profile Close lelec]

also i rly dgaf do whatever u want, im going with a pattern noticed from experience and thousands of posts, if u wanna use a pump do it i rly dgaf.

[rbi99 Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close rbi99]

Very interesting points. However, I suggest that you not knock other methods or say they don't work, because many have used different methods and have made gains. I agree with you regarding manual vs mechanical, but ease off the negatives because this thread will become a us vs them kind of thing and most reasoning will go out the window. Again, I agree with you, but if someone wants to pump, continue to explain differences, but don't call what they do wrong. Calling it ineffective is like calling it wrong as well. I personally jelq with a very intense grip and slow stroke, others do it just the opposite. I am right for me, and I have gained over an inch of girth from a starting point that was fairly decent to begin with at 5 1/2" (now over 6 1/2"), but I will not say my way is better for others until "others" try it and find success where they were experiencing little of it. It is also why I tweaked my jelqing to better suit my needs.

[tiritera Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tiritera]

I posted some time ago a question about pumping vs jelquing or squeezing, to investigate better the differences and trying to understand which is better to promote permanent gains.
I know that many people got amazing results using both, but still it's not clear to me the scientific background behind each one. Some would say they're equally good, others prefer one vs the other based on their own personal experience, but still I have to read something more science based.

[Pound_per_inch Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2020 Find all posts View Profile Close Pound_per_inch]

Most my gains came from extending.

Also, I've taken 6 weeks off in the past and lost no size.

Interesting points though OP. I was recently looking into whether you could change ear shape using manual exercises over a period of time. My niece wants to have an op to bring them in a bit.

I couldn't find anything suggesting you could and they reckon after the age of two the cartilage has fully formed.

I kniw you can make your ears bigger though.

Anyway, I digress. I'm hanging now and producing a consistent force I couldn't replicate with manuals.

[Ultimate Burrito Moderator Member of the Month Oct 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Ultimate Burrito]

yea which is why the guy with the biggest penis in the world was hanging weights and stretching 16 hours a day, thats the prime way hyperplasia works, and be in devices, clamping, hanging, manual or whatever they all use hyperplasia, its simply a term for cell division induced by the cells experiencing a stretch, all cells undergo it, from bone to muscle to penis to skin, just like a fat guy with loose skin that lost weight. u noticed actual gains from just using a bathmate?

Hyperplasia is a increase in the production of cells at an abnormal rate and is similar to cancer and tumors. PE follows the process of mitosis and cytokenesis. Stress is applied to the penis, small microscopic tears begin to form over a period of time, your body heals itself by generating new tissue to fill in the gaps and that process followed by a period of time results in permanent length gains.

The only actual gains I achieved with a bathmate was .25" in girth which surprisingly only took a couple months. I've stopped using the bathmate though as a means of PE because it was causing damage to my testicles.

I will swear night and day by extending and it's even medically backed with studies and evidence. It's also a passive form of PE which requires little effort and time consumption. Clamping is also an excellent device and it's something you can purchase for a few bucks at a hardware store. My jelq device is homemade and cost about $10 to make and it simply helps me to jelq more evenly and applies a little more pressure than what your hands can do. Clamping and jelq device are simple homemade devices. The only thing I actually spent money on was the extender but that was purchased before I knew PE was a real thing. I just did lots of research and reviewing testimonials and medical papers so that I knew I was making an informed decision. The Bathmate pump I purchased more for the temporary results so that I could spice up the bedroom even more.

[lelec Member Find all posts View Profile Close lelec]

Hyperplasia is a increase in the production of cells at an abnormal rate and is similar to cancer and tumors. PE follows the process of mitosis and cytokenesis. Stress is applied to the penis, small microscopic tears begin to form over a period of time, your body heals itself by generating new tissue to fill in the gaps and that process followed by a period of time results in permanent length gains.

The only actual gains I achieved with a bathmate was .25" in girth which surprisingly only took a couple months. I've stopped using the bathmate though as a means of PE because it was causing damage to my testicles.

I will swear night and day by extending and it's even medically backed with studies and evidence. It's also a passive form of PE which requires little effort and time consumption. Clamping is also an excellent device and it's something you can purchase for a few bucks at a hardware store. My jelq device is homemade and cost about $10 to make and it simply helps me to jelq more evenly and applies a little more pressure than what your hands can do. Clamping and jelq device are simple homemade devices. The only thing I actually spent money on was the extender but that was purchased before I knew PE was a real thing. I just did lots of research and reviewing testimonials and medical papers so that I knew I was making an informed decision. The Bathmate pump I purchased more for the temporary results so that I could spice up the bedroom even more.

first sentence already wrong

creating a single extra cell as a result of stretching, that otherwise wouldnt be created is hyperplasia.

the " MICROTEARS WHICH FIX " or whatever the fuck theory you guys are going on at this forum is hyperplasia

the microtears dont fix through enlargement of the cells, tho they do enlarge a little, they fix by creating more cells.

" your body heals itself by creating new tissue bla bla " - cool, that process is named hyperplasia.

also clamping and hanging both work great yes, theyre just like the stretch that you do with your hand without the sensory feedback, they work great because they stretch the tissue and produce insane hyperplasia, thats how people with the biggest cocks have gotten them, hanging and stretching. also clamping does the exact same thing that squeezing the cock with your hands does and it DOES induce angiogenesis aswell since it stops bloodflow.

so while manual remains the best, you wont do it 3 hours a day thats where clamping hanging etc comes in, the main point of this is that pumps, bathmates etc are uselles.

[lelec Member Find all posts View Profile Close lelec]

Most my gains came from extending.

Also, I've taken 6 weeks off in the past and lost no size.

Interesting points though OP. I was recently looking into whether you could change ear shape using manual exercises over a period of time. My niece wants to have an op to bring them in a bit.

I couldn't find anything suggesting you could and they reckon after the age of two the cartilage has fully formed.

I kniw you can make your ears bigger though.

Anyway, I digress. I'm hanging now and producing a consistent force I couldn't replicate with manuals.

you can people are just extremely mind limited

wearing tight headphones while on computer, even for a couple months will permanently visibly change the position of your ears.

just like how you can lose cartilage and bone thru an illness / lack of nutrition / old age etc, you can gain it.

our bodies dont just exist, we are like tanks that are constantly refilled by eating food, drinking water, being exposed to sun, osmosis etc.

dont eat for a year you will die.

you need a constant influx of materials and energy to be rebuilt and are changing over the course of your life.

also as i said in another comment this was primarily manual vs pumps and that type of shit but yes hanging can work as it also uses the natural gravitational force + induces a light stretch over enough time, thats how the guys with the biggest cocks have gotten them.

just like the ears, lips etc of certain native african people are greatly enlarged because of the stretch, just like how fat people have way too many hanging skin for the rest of their life after losing weight, you can grow your dick too.

the skin on it is the exact same as the one on your belly, stretching it for many hours will cause it to grow.

you can change your body in whatever way you want, force alot of blood into your balls and stretch the skin, over time your balls get bigger and the skin of your balls gets bigger, you have more seminiferous tubes and produce more sperm and testosterone.

people are just limited in their way of thinking like we are in a videogame

" oh yea sure you can change this and this but cant change this "

you can even grow inches and inches in height, the normal height surgery procedure is cutting your leg bones and placing them further apart, your body heals the shins for example by making 2 seperated parts start producing bone until they meet in the middle and if theyve been placed 5 cm apart, gj ur 5 cm taller.

so your body CAN do it, it CAN make you taller, just like how you witnessed through childhood and puberty, it just doesnt want to and it has no reason and no stimulie to do the certain things your consciousness wants because its operated by unconsciousness.

so if you learn the mechanisms through which the unconsciousness works like bones responding to long term slight pull, you can make it do whatever you want.

punching and stressing your bones and even just adding muscle around it makes it thicker and adds bones all around to make you able to withstand stress, placing a light pull over enough time makes the bones get longer as a result, theres people that have gained real height past the spine stretch just like theres people here that have gained real length past the eq improvement, but its such an unimaginable thing to most that they just tend to brush it off and think its not worth trying.

[Ultimate Burrito Moderator Member of the Month Oct 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Ultimate Burrito]

first sentence already wrong

creating a single extra cell as a result of stretching, that otherwise wouldnt be created is hyperplasia.

the " MICROTEARS WHICH FIX " or whatever the fuck theory you guys are going on at this forum is hyperplasia

the microtears dont fix through enlargement of the cells, tho they do enlarge a little, they fix by creating more cells.

" your body heals itself by creating new tissue bla bla " - cool, that process is named hyperplasia.

also clamping and hanging both work great yes, theyre just like the stretch that you do with your hand without the sensory feedback, they work great because they stretch the tissue and produce insane hyperplasia, thats how people with the biggest cocks have gotten them, hanging and stretching. also clamping does the exact same thing that squeezing the cock with your hands does and it DOES induce angiogenesis aswell since it stops bloodflow.

so while manual remains the best, you wont do it 3 hours a day thats where clamping hanging etc comes in, the main point of this is that pumps, bathmates etc are uselles.

I'm all about good discussion but you need to tone it down a little with the mood here.

Your main point is wrong according to many members on the site, whether or not they lead to permanent gains; they still serve a purpose. To each their own. As an additional note, there times where members don't see any gains from manual but then switch to a device and start seeing results. You read through thousands of posts here. I'm sure you noticed that as well.

[lelec Member Find all posts View Profile Close lelec]

I'm all about good discussion but you need to tone it down a little with the mood here.

Your main point is wrong according to many members on the site, whether or not they lead to permanent gains; they still serve a purpose. To each their own. As an additional note, there times where members don't see any gains from manual but then switch to a device and start seeing results. You read through thousands of posts here. I'm sure you noticed that as well.

dont project my mood is perfectly fine i simply pointed out you were wrong already in the first sentence

my main point is manual works far better than pumps, which 99% of people notice but think its " anecdotal " because theyre brainwashed into thinking expensive device = good, hands only = bad

just like how most people are brainwashed into thinking that:

plants = bad, placebo, cant help

and lab made drugs / ingredients extracted from plants themselves, sold by the govt = good

and as the pushup example ive given, doing 50 push ups will give you a nice tricep and a chest pump, you will look good in the mirror for the next 10 minutes

as ur working towards being able to do 50 push ups easily you will be noticing gains

after that point you can keep doing 50 push ups a day for 20 years you wont notice any gains

and the exact same thing with a pump, its a cool little pump you get for the next 10 minutes but it results in no actual tissue gain.

[lelec Member Find all posts View Profile Close lelec]

I'm all about good discussion but you need to tone it down a little with the mood here.

Your main point is wrong according to many members on the site, whether or not they lead to permanent gains; they still serve a purpose. To each their own. As an additional note, there times where members don't see any gains from manual but then switch to a device and start seeing results. You read through thousands of posts here. I'm sure you noticed that as well.

despite there being a bunch of fake reviews, is there still a SINGLE person that has ever claimed theyve gotten real gains, over an inch to inch and a half, without the eq improvement, that was achieved through JUST pumping?

no jelqs, no kegels, no stretching, no weights, no clamping, no extenders, pumps only?

theres hundreds of those for manual only.

[JustALilMore Senior Member Member of the Month August 2020 Find all posts View Profile Close JustALilMore]

and as the pushup example ive given, doing 50 push ups will give you a nice tricep and a chest pump, you will look good in the mirror for the next 10 minutes

as ur working towards being able to do 50 push ups easily you will be noticing gains

after that point you can keep doing 50 push ups a day for 20 years you wont notice any gains

and the exact same thing with a pump, its a cool little pump you get for the next 10 minutes but it results in no actual tissue gain.

And you wouldn't pump at the same pressure for an extended amount of time because your body adapts to the stresses placed upon it. Therefore, you have to increase the intensity and/or duration.

[JustALilMore Senior Member Member of the Month August 2020 Find all posts View Profile Close JustALilMore]

no im not treating it like it im explaining you the mechanisms behind the way and the reasons why it works a particular way, as i have said all human tissue, penis included, is capable of hyperplasia, thats the reason your penis gets bigger in the first place, your cells dont grow to an unrealistic size, you create more of them, through whichever mechanism you would like to think worse, and im explaining to you why manual works better. Also you have blood flow to every single cell in your body not just " the veins next to the walls of the shaft ", if you dont have blood flow to a cell, it dies, you cant compare angiogenesis and the squeeze thru manually squeezing at the base, with a vacuum produced by the pump.

I'm with tiritera on this one. I would like to know the scientific reasons behind the growth as well. Your anecdotal evidence is fine, but the anatomical explanations aren't quite right.

The penis spongy tissue has a layer called "endothelium." It's job is to prevent blood clotting, so when the blood is trapped during an erection it remains blood and not coagulate...otherwise your penis would fall off after its first erection.

Let's actually compare the two...should be a fun thread:
Your main statement is that jelquing and other manual methods work well because it blocks the flow of blood back to the body, causing angiogenesis and hyperplasia AND that it is the stretching of the tissues which induce this hyperplasia.

Jelquing requires a 60-70% erection. With this technique, you are doing a light stretch as well as forcing blood up the spongy tissue. It is this forcing of blood that causes the stress. Your efferent vein, which returns blood back to the body should not be blocked during jelquing. If it was, your penis would turn into a pimple and pop because of the excess pressure build up. SOME of that has to leak out for a safe and effective exercise. It's also the reason why you don't jelq at 100% erection, at least as a beginner. It's too much force at one time because of those blocked off veins caused by the erection.

Pumping forces your penis to be over engorged with blood, causing stresses in all directions. It also stretches your tissues, and by your definition "they all use hyperplasia, its simply a term for cell division induced by the cells experiencing a stretch, all cells undergo it" should cause penis growth. Now because the pump created a vacuum, ALL blood that is at a lower pressure will get "sucked" by the pump which is usually the blood stuck in the sponge. Only the higher pressure blood "leaks" out of the vein, which reduces bloodflow, which again by your definition, induces angiogenesis "...jelquing, squeezes etc block your veins, which increases angiogenesis to help your body deal with the stressor aka reduced blood flow, by creating more blood vessels."

[BigKnob Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2019 Find all posts View Profile Close BigKnob]

Got back into it around late 2018 and bought a bathmate, used it for an hour every other day with 2 days of rest on the weekend. 6 months later absolutely 0 gains so i sold it.

Does an absolute dumbass routine and blames the device. I know multiple people in real life and online who gained significant permanent gains from pumping including myself. Do manual if that works for you and let other people do what works for them

[MyNameIsAdam Member Find all posts View Profile Close MyNameIsAdam]

All science and anatomy aside, I believe it comes down to personal experience and tested methods. Sure, I believe it is possible for some people to attain newbie gains from an only pumping routine. My experience.......
After a year and a half of successful (length) gains, I decided to switch my routine to a Bathmate focused routine to increase girth. After a year of pumping I saw little to no gains and and poor EQ. I hit a plateau for an entire year. 2 months ago, I decided to switch back to a more manual routine. Now I only use the bathmate for a small pump up before a good jelqing session. In just these last 2 months I have once again seen positive results. Small, but enough to prove what method has worked for me.

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

I always did about five minutes of stretching and jelqing to warm up prior to pumping and again following my pumping sessions. However, pumping was my primary exercise (20 minutes twIce a day, six days a week). It took nine months to gain my first 1/4” and five years to gain 1.1” in permanent girth. I should mention that I have ED so EQ was never a consideration.

In my opinion, each guy’s dick responds differently to the various exercises. In my case, pumping was the key to my gains, at least as far as girth is concerned. Length gains have yet to reach 1” even though I have been using an extender (3 - 4 hours a day). Since I have achieved my girth goal, I started concentrating more on length And I am now doing 500 - 600 jelqs and bundled stretches a day. Hopefully, that will kick start my length gaims.