Girth is Temporary

[flex Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close flex]

I measured very carefully when I started PE, so I'm sure the 1/2" length and 1/4" girth are solid erect gains, not due to improved EQ or anything else. Even took a viagra for my first measurements to make sure it was as good as it could get-- and never for subsequent measurements. I pump and enter the tube erect so I rarely get edema. Maybe once or twice when I didn't do so, and it went away within an hour or two. I maintained the gains after a month and a half break, so I'm 100 percent confident there is no way it has anything to do with edema. My goal is to double them, and if any maintenance is required to keep them, all I can say is it's well worth it!

[GTO Retired ModeratorPEGym EditorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close GTO]

I measured very carefully when I started PE, so I'm sure the 1/2" length and 1/4" girth are solid erect gains, not due to improved EQ or anything else. Even took a viagra for my first measurements to make sure it was as good as it could get-- and never for subsequent measurements. I pump and enter the tube erect so I rarely get edema. Maybe once or twice when I didn't do so, and it went away within an hour or two. I maintained the gains after a month and a half break, so I'm 100 percent confident there is no way it has anything to do with edema. My goal is to double them, and if any maintenance is required to keep them, all I can say is it's well worth it!

Cool! - Keep it up!

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

After spending a considerable amount of time reviewing threads at ************* and reading research associated with PE, I am even more convinced now that girth gains are temporary and most likely due to edema. I am not 100% sure of this, but I will present my evidence. TP member Longvehicle is an avid water pumper and clamper, his gains in girth exceeded one inch and after several months break he has reported 75% loss in girth gains. TP member Clubber, a pumper, has experienced similar losses despite having initial gains over an inch. I stated earlier about TP member Braindrain experiencing massive girth losses after a break, his gains were primarily due to clamping at the time. Braindrain's case is more complicated than this and I will explain in the paragraph below. This is only a list of 3 people who gained big and lost big, but there are many others that experience this pattern. The length gains are relatively stable in most cases, but the girth is not.

Braindrain's case is more complicated because he later claimed to stabilize his girth gain through regular sessions of firm jelqing at a high erection level (90%). I do not advocate this and want the readers of this post to understand that high erection level jelqing is generally considered dangerous in all PE forums. With that said, BD states that after developing multiple thrombosed veins from traction wrapping and his jelq technique he did not lose gains on the month(s) he subsequently took off from PE. He has photos to document progress and edema does not appear prevalent until his most recent girth picture. It is important to note he did return to clamping for his most recent gains. If he is being honest about his gains from jelqing and there are pics to back up his claim, then edema may not be the cause of the gains he claims are permanent. Another interesting case is TP member Wadzilla who temporarily retired from PE and held the belief that PE was due to plastic deformation. He retired only to watch his gains diminish after approximately 3 years of being stable.

Other big girth gainers do not post detailed logs or photographs, I dismiss these individuals as evidence for girth gains. So, what we are left with are few who have gained .75 girth or more and even less that claim it is stable (non-edema/fluid retention). That is the anecdotal evidence, what about research?

There are two studies that come to mind that are legitimate and cover two different aspects of PE. The first study was conducted at the University of Turin in Italy and examined the use of an extender. The study revealed an increase in length, but no increase in girth. The second study "The Role of Vacuum Pump Therapy to Mechanically Straighten the Penis in Peyronie's Disease" used a pump and found length increase to be a side effect of the pump treatment, but no increase in girth. The abstract does not discuss girth, so if you are interested in reading the full study you will have to purchase it or have access to a database, such as through a library or university. I am open to reviewing any study that someone feels evidences girth gains, but so far I haven't been able to find one.

I personally find this disappointing as my girth is my primary concern. I look forward to a discussing this topic further and hearing everyone's opinion.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

How you came to this edema thing boggles my mind ,don't you think an inch of edema of obvious visually? As an athelete in my younger years I had edema on my knee ,elbow etc, not only could I feel it was edema but I could see it,so could blind Freddy. In fact people commented on it. As for girth gains ,they are as permenant as penis size ever is after you have had them for a considerable time. Penis size seems to vary for a number of reasons through life even without pe.

[smallpackageRay Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close smallpackageRay]

My opinon is girth gains can be better equated to normal flexibility training than weight training. For example, let's say that I take the winter off and don't do any exercising. I use all the excuses... the holiday's are coming up, I really like football and basketball and i just have to watch every game, it's too cold to go out and walk. You get the idea. So what happens next spring. I want to go out and start exercising and playing sports. Well I don't know about you, but I find I'm not nearer as flexible as I was at the end of the previous summer. Most sports have some type of training camp or preseason to get the athletes reconditioned.
Well wouldn't we have the same issues? We go through all this effort of working on the tunica tissue; conditioning it, working on aligning fibers better, stretching it and making it more pliable. So if we stop wouldn't a lot of those changes regress?

[bulldog28 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bulldog28]

Interesting thread. So like the op, i am confused about why particular gains arent permanent. Why does ones natural size never increase or decrae as life goes on withoit pe assuming your sexually active. Are girth gains never permanent?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

many members have had loss of size before they ever did pe. I don't think penis size should be regarded as permanent, if you are doing pe or not.

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

People who lose size prior to PE probably do so most likely because of circulatory issues, those changes do not apply to the three cases I listed. I can't think of any other mechanism that would cause someone to lose an inch or more in girth in a short period of time besides edema. In the rare case where girth gains are permanent, arterial remodeling may play a role, but those changes are not going to break down in a month or two. Furthermore, we talk about tunica stretching and remodeling often on the forums, but why then is the girth not changing with the length? If the tunica is being stretched wouldn't the change be uniform throughout the tissue? Braindrain is best case for permanent girth gains in my opinion and even his documentation is not definitive. He started at age 19 or 20, so his gains may be in part due to final stages of puberty, this of course is debatable.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Interesting thread. So like the op, i am confused about why particular gains arent permanent. Why does ones natural size never increase or decrae as life goes on withoit pe assuming your sexually active. Are girth gains never permanent?

Size does go up and down through life in some cases noticeably without pe. Some guys lose a girlfriend ,have less sex and end up losing size . Others get a very active girl and gain size. Guys run into hormone issues, or age ,or use drugs etc.

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

Sure stress and hormonal changes can effect erection quality, thus size. However, that statement does not address the permanence or mechanism of girth gains. People do not typically have fluctuations of an inch or more in erectile girth unless they are experiencing some form of erectile dysfunction. In the case of members I listed above, I believe 3 of them are in their 20's and have reported no form of erectile dysfunction either psychological or physiological in nature accompanying their significant loss in girth gains.

[smallpackageRay Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close smallpackageRay]

The fibers in the tunica run in all different directions, that is why it is so tough. My thoughts were that when I do a stretching exercise I was affecting the fibers that run length wise along the corpus. If a twisting action is done then I would thnk the fibers that run around the corpus would be more affected. Same is probably true about squeeze exercises.

[DownLow Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close DownLow]

I'll side with Pegasus. If it was edema, the body would find a way to restore homeostasis quickly and people would not gain continually throughout thier PE career. The penis would adjust so that any "edema" is eliminated quickly.

[rbi99 Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close rbi99]

The huge advantage PE has over lifting when it comes to maintenance, is that as you age your unit can still be handled the same way as before, but lifting becomes more difficult as the body ages and you have to cut back eventually. No way in the world can I still lift four days a week like I used to, because my body simply doesn't recover quick enough. Also, layoffs from lifting as you get older cause a much quicker loss, and later takes much longer to regain that loss (if at all). With PE, none of that applies. I am sure that even a twice a week/30 minute routine will probably do a very nice job for maintenance. I have always argued that the word "cementing" should be stricken from the PE vocabulary, and it should be replaced with something like "reduced maintenance".

[Jrion Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jrion]

If it was edema then where does the corona get all that extra room for the liquid to fill in? If it was fluid build up just beneath the skin then it would be very noticeable. I think that the cells of the corona itself has to grow or at least, expand in order for the girth gains P.Ers have noticed.

I do have a theory as to why we lose girth. I think the key here is blood flow and the spaces between the cells in your penis. P.Ers have often claimed that their penis blood vessels seem to blow up after months of P.E.

So what I'm thinking is that the more new cells there are in the penis, the more cramped it gets in certain places in the penis. So you need more valves and pipes to flow to these areas to pump the penis up to its potential size.

However, if it turns out to be edema then that's a bit discouraging.

[Jrion Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jrion]

Also, I've just read a post about cementing routines and this suggests that some members have done the cementing routines long enough to have permanent gains. This could be because they've either increased the amount of cells that regular blood flow is enough to fill it up to their size goal or it could be because they are having regular intercourse or are edging regularly maintaining blood flow.

Yet another possible theory is that cells may stretch to more than 70% of their regular size while under the stress of P.E. So if someone made a 1 inch gain, that is actually just a .3 inch gain but the cells are stretched an extra 70% of their regular size. So maybe with the big gainers they didn't actually get new cell development but actually just stretched every cell in their penis to 70% + of their original size.

I think you'd have to experience over 100% increase in size to have actual cell growth but I'm not sure. This is biology and I don't have a degree in that. I don't know if the cells in the penis are actually growing or if they are stretching. Maybe a clue would be if the penis feels ribbed vs smooth in its growing stage.