When average NBPEL is 5-5.5...

[Cya at 8 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cya at 8]

Helpmeout, I think people mean BPEL when they quote
6 as average.

I can't think of any that I've seen that had NBPEL at 6,
except the self-measured ones. Most that I've seen
are NBPEL stretched length.

I don't know of any Kinsey studies except the big
one. About the Cancun study, I still think it was
NBPEL. I know DemOne says he got an email
from LifeStyles saying it was BPEL, but I don't
believe it.

I'm not saying DemOne is lying. I'm saying that
the guy at LifeStyles doesn't know what he's talking
about. There's no indication anywhere that it's BPEL.

Also, helpmeout, I think you already know this, but
the frequency tables at the Mraverage site are
the data from the Kinsey study. I used to think that
just the girth data was Kinsey, but if you look at the
percentages, it's obvious that the length data is Kinsey
too.

Those tables say Lifestyles right on them. I wonder who
put that there - mraverage or LifeStyles themselves.
In either case, those tables represent NBPEL
self-measured data.

I agreee. There is no reason what so ever for a condom company to use BPEL since their product only covers NBPEL portion. Their study was just to get the right measurements for their product.

[ThomasJohnThomas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThomasJohnThomas]

Seriously, and what was their result? And sorry, I didnt mean for my last post to come off rude. Your a good guy and a great poster, I didn't want that to seem angry, because that was not my intention. After re-reading it I see how it could be interpreted that way.

That`s ok They showed approximately the same results as the other serious surveys. Have you cheacked out the link in my signature?
Btw. why do you have these discussions with your friends? If you HAVE to discuss it, remember that if you get angry or upset, they will probably have a hard time taking you seriously, so keep calm and stick to facts that you can back up with reliable sources.

[ducky62 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ducky62]

So, can anyone tell me, how hard you gotta push your bone to measure bpel? Especially if you're really a skinny guy? I think there is no point to measure bpel of a skinny or a fit guy.

[ThomasJohnThomas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThomasJohnThomas]

So, can anyone tell me, how hard you gotta push your bone to measure bpel? Especially if you're really a skinny guy? I think there is no point to measure bpel of a skinny or a fit guy.

Just don`t bend the ruler Just push it gently towards the pubic bone. Of course you don`t have to push it that much if you have close to no fatpad at all, then your visible penis would be about the same as your bpel. The reason to measure bpel like in the surveys, is to have something reliable to compare with and to have a stable method that shows as accurate measurements as possible. If you measure to keep track of gains, it is a reliable method as well, but in that case you can measure however you like as long as you are consistent and measure the same way each time... If you measure to brag, measure from your ass crack or however you want

[benschmidt Senior Member Member of the Month July 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close benschmidt]

From what I've seen on studies, 6" is the average when self measured, when done by medical personal it was about 5.25"-5.5". Also, in any of these types of statistics, the majority fall even below the average, since the higher end has a greater tendency to skew the results than the lower end.

[Chargeit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chargeit]

I understand your point.

People like to round to whole numbers, just to avoid fractions. This convenience, to some, is more important than precision. The result? A half inch would be rounded up - even though 1/2" represents just shy of 10% of a 5.5" penis.

According to most figures I've seen, 6 bpel would be a bit above average, and 6 nbp would naturally be even greater once fat pad is taken into account.

I think the point hes attempting to get across is read between the lines. studies are rarely as random as they appear. Self-studys are unreliable and at best prove what the avg man is willing to say his dick is (most likely cheating the numbers a little combined with bad measurements.). Most studies are selective and or self and therefore totally unreliable.

In the end the only true way to get a perfect avg would be to say force at least 10% of the worlds male population to have their dicks measured. These measurements would all have to be done by a very small and select staff as to insure accuracy. This would be a mandatory study.

I think that if you were to do the above example you'd get much lower and more realistic avgs. Which has been the case in most studies that were done by medical staff.

In the end you can't really rely on the numbers that are generally accepted. Most of the methods to gather the data are questionable at best. To understand what needs to be taken into consideration you have to realize that any study which allows one to freely participate in it or not, no longer has accurate data and has moved into the realm of selective data.

[goodfellow Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close goodfellow]

With regard to ever establishing an 'accurate' average, one should take into consideration the Continental (African, Asian etc.) tendency. There should be a good percentage of each group involved in any study.

[Chargeit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chargeit]

There's too much to consider. I personally think if the avg dick was really 6x5 a lot more women would be a lot happier. 6x5 (assuming its a nice full 5 girth) is a nice sized pecker that with a little skill should be able to make most women pretty happy (Sorry size queens everyone can't win.)

[Ivor Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ivor]

My point is I always get yelled at for not believing them, they say your crazy or you need help, when if people really did believe that 6.5 BPEL/6 NBPEL was in the 80th percentile, it wouldnt be refered to as AVG 90 Percent of the time.

Let's be honest though, half an inch isn't that big a deal. Not to downplay the achievements of guys who've gained half an inch, of course.

I did the calculation myself and, using 5.9" as the mean and 0.83" as standard deviation, as per the Lifestyles survey, I get a figure of ~0.76 for 6.5", meaning 6.5" BP puts you (just) in the top quarter. The survey was taken on a beach in Cancun at spring break so the sample was made up of young guys who like to spend time at the beach, and therefore probably don't have much of a fat pad - so in this case, difference between BP and NBP is going to be minimal.

[Padawan787 Moderator ReservePEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Padawan787]

I agreee. There is no reason what so ever for a condom company to use BPEL since their product only covers NBPEL portion. Their study was just to get the right measurements for their product.

Redundancy

I'm also quite sure that they used BPEL in order to compare their results with other surveys, it also gives them a larger data pool

Not using BPEL would have been a huge error on their behalf

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

@CyaAt8, I agree. Many of the studies done by Urology departments measure NBPEL. I highly doubt that LifeStyles used BPEL. If someone has a link about this that is convincing, I would love to see it. @Padawan787, I agree that it's a huge error to use NBPEL, but it's an error that many of the studies make, even the really good ones that go out of their way to get everything right. It's a shame, because they go through all of the trouble to do a study on something so many men care about, and then they leave out a crucial piece of information. I don't know why they don't just do both NBPEL and BPEL.

The fact that they use stretched length drives me crazy, too. Several researchers have confirmed that stretched length and erect length are more highly correlated than flaccid length and erect length, but stretched and erect lengths are not identical, so you end up having to derive erect length from stretched length.

@Chargeit, you mentioned the problem of getting a truly random sample. I just read the Iranian study recently. The full article is available online for free. They give a very detailed explanation of how they tried to randomize the sample, and they even mention the percentage of people who refused to be in the study. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it sounded like they did a pretty good job of getting a random sample. If I remember correctly, this was one of the studies that used NBPEL, and they even mention that an earlier Jordanian study used BPEL. Frustrating.

@Ivor, I agree. Those guys probably had fairly small fat pads, so the NBPEL/BPEL difference probably isn't too big anyway.

[helpmeout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helpmeout]

Every study but wessells did BPEL that I can find. And wessells measured the fat pad afterwords separately. I cant find any evidence either way on the lifestyles study. Stretched length studies are usually NBPEL though. If I had to guess, I would think lifestyles was bone pressed, just because it was measured by doctors, so it would make sense. plus 5.9 is about the same as every other study that was staff measured for BPEL. Most gay members and people who have seen other mens erect penises agree that the average BPEL is somewhere around there, and no way that 5.9 is the average NBPEL.

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

@Helpmeout, do you remember which ones were BPEL that you've seen? I saw on Thunder's Place someone saying that the German study was BPEL, but I've never seen the full text of the article, so I don't know for sure. I think the Israeli one was BPEL, but I'm not sure. One of the 2 Jordanian ones was definitely BPEL, but as far as I can remember the Iranian, Greek, Italian, and the Turkish(I think there were 2) studies were all NBPEL.

Has anyone seen the full article for the Italian study? I would love to read that one. It sounds to me like it's NBPEL from reading the abstract. I would also like to know how they chose the guys for that study, and if it was mandatory. It was done on soldiers, so I guess it could have been mandatory. That study is a great one because the sample is so large.

Has anyone tried to get any of the studies in a medical library? Some are online free, but a lot of them aren't. I've thought about going to a medical library to look some of them up, but have been too lazy.

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

... If I had to guess, I would think lifestyles was bone pressed, just because it was measured by doctors, so it would make sense. plus 5.9 is about the same as every other study that was staff measured for BPEL. Most gay members and people who have seen other mens erect penises agree that the average BPEL is somewhere around there, and no way that 5.9 is the average NBPEL.

Yeah, 5.9 definitely sounds like a BPEL number, not NBPEL, but I think it was just a high NBPEL number. I think the setup of the study led to even more over-representation by bigger guys than you would get in a more clinical study, in a lab setting. I think the higher than usual girth average in the study supports that theory. I really just think you got a bunch of big guys in that study because of the setup. I know I would feel more comfortable exposing myself in a lab than I would in a tent in a night club or outside a night club, whatever it was.

It would be great if it was BPEL. It's crazy that they never said what it was. Maybe someone will find the details somewhere, and we'll know for sure.

[helpmeout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close helpmeout]

Well demone said they confirmed it in an e-mail he sent to them. So thats what I believe. Secondly, I think that lifestyles, if done bonepressed, would have actually gotten a lower number then most studies.

Most gay men/people who have been around average men's erect penises say that the average is actually somewhere more around 5, and theres alot less people over 6.5 NBP than you would think when looking on here. The way lifestyles got men was in groups. Obviously, insecure ones wouldnt go. But most of the people went as a group, getting a lower number. Wessels, men had to respond to a newspaper add if I am not mistaken. There was no peer pressure involved like the lifestlyes one.

The high girth suprises me because its a pretty large amount bigger than almost every other study done. Studies have shown girth shrinks a little bit with age, but not that much. Most clinical studies put it around 4.7ish. Almost 5 is high. I dont think guys volunteering think of girth though when they think of a big dick. I dont think someone with 6 bpel and a 6" girth really thinks they are endowed, as the public generally only thinks about length when refering to a big dick. Women is a different story.