Erect jelqing: the ONLY jelq for gains

[MysticMonk Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MysticMonk]

Ok well like I said I'm killing two birds with one stone. I hope you perfect your technique and finally start gaining bud, because my massages are working!

[draggin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close draggin]

Wow, very brave of you.

I agree 100% that jelqing with a full erection is best for gains. That is how I jelq. That is how I've always jelqed. I have gotten great girth gains. But I have also injured myself and had to take a month off. Oops. But after my cock was conditioned, I am back jelqing with a full hard-on for as longs as my fingers can take it. By the way, randomly last night, my wife whispered to me as she was falling asleep "jelqing has made you real hung". WOW, that is never hard to hear for a man.

Anyway, don't hurt yourselves. Keep jelqing at whatever level is right for you. Good Luck.

[rbi99 Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close rbi99]

I do not jelq for gains. I have no experience gaining from jelqing. But if I were to do it

You make some points, then from your personal experience you say the above. I could say I don't drive, but if I did I would do so at 100mph because cars can take it.

When nearly erect jelqing for me is like trying to squeeze a rock. I don't like how it feels, and instead of using less pressure I need a firmer grip to "get any action". At 60% or so, a firm grip, and a slow stroke, my glans is hard as a rock if I touch it while jelqing. I am pushing a large amount of blood up through my cells. When I finish my shaft is bloated from all of the blood that has been pushed up through it. Call me a liar, an exaggerator, or fool, but I gained 1 1/2" of meg since I started. I did this by changing the usual wet jelqs and V's into UJ's and UV's because I didn't feel that the regular way of jelqing was very effective - however my erection level is usually around 50 - 60%, not 100. Some guys do jelq at 100%, and I have no problem with that at all, but quite frankly I couldn't keep an erection up for the 20-30 minutes I need for my basic routine. I wrote a rather indebt thread in the Beginners Section regarding jelqing, most of it based on "hands on" actual experience. I would feel much more confident about your premise, if you were speaking from experience, not the comfort of your computer chair.

[HungJury Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HungJury]

To say that you can expand the erectile tissues without getting erect, makes no sense to me. An unfettered erection is more tissue expansion than non-erect jelqing. That's just a penis massage.

How does it not make sense? It is what you do with the blood and how you manipulate your tissue which causes deformation and expansion. Saying that you can ONLY gain from jelquing at 100% EQ is like saying "You can ONLY gain from doing a bench press by doing your 1 rep max!" lol! People have had great results (myself included) by jelquing the way it's explained in routines such as JP90...etc. Like I said, different peoples bodies react to different forms of training. Thankfully you've found what works for you, but it may not be the "be all/end all" for everybody else.

[namsokiek Banned Find all posts View Profile Close namsokiek]

Okay, I'm probably stirring up a ruckus again, but I think this needs to be addressed.

You've hit the nail on the head there. The problem is this: while recognizing your post is likely to stir up some contention your failure to mitigate this effect, by moderating your claims or using less absolutist words, indicates an intention to stir up a ruckus. You could present the same argument without starting an argument.

To address your claim. Your assumptions are:

1 - that jelqing at less than 100% only increase the pressure by a fraction (see your 50% and 60% example)
2 - that you can't expand the tunica unless it is 100% erect and jelqing would bring the erection higher causing expansion.
3 - the tunica is able to expand to a greater degree when full erect as opposed to lower erection level.

Assumption 1 is incorrect, unless you're not jelqing properly. Picture in your mind a clown that makes balloon animals. He'll quickly stretch the balloon, to loosen up the resistance to longitudinal expansion, then inflate. I've seen where he'll inflate just a small portion about the size of a ball, and press it towards the end. Although the balloon is not entirely filled to capacity, the location at the bubble of air is filled to capacity and is beginning plastic deformation. And the movement of that bubble along the balloon expands the balloon at that location and causes incremental plastic deformation.

Now this is not an exact comparison because there are factors at work for the balloon which do not exist in the penis, but the effect is similar. When jelqing to emphasize girth the penis is 50%-60%, or rather plump. When the OK grip is applied, the pressure inside the CC and CS increase (like the little ball in the balloon example) and expand the tunica to its physical limits. The pressure is again increased as the grip is advanced towards the glans. This increased pressure causes incremental plastic deformation in the areas that experience the increased pressure.

Assumption 2 is incorrect because you can cause localized expansion when not completely erect, see horse squeezes.

Assumption 3 is incorrect. The composition of the tunica make it rigid and less pliable when 100% erect. The interaction of the longitudinal and radial aligned strands with the support strands originating at the septum and spanning the CC to the outer wall of the CC make it very rigid and resistant. Doing girth work at 80% to 95% is allows for much greater expansion of the tunica and provides a greater post-workout gain than the same exercises at 100% erect.

Now, because the tunica is extremely rigid at 100% forcing blood movement through the tunica is very difficult. Because the CS and glans are not encased in the tunica, they usually receive the majority of the constriction force. There is some ancillary increase in pressure inside the CC, but that is from the occlusion of the flow of blood out of the penis more so than the movement of blood inside the CC from the jelq.

Now if your assertion that erect jelqing was the only way to gain then your statement that "we'd all get big dicks just from jacking off" would validate your assertion regarding erect jelqs, not be used to refute gains from normal jelqs, because jacking off is best done when fully erect. Unfortunately we don't "all get big dicks from just jacking off" which is an argument against your "only erect jelqs" claim.

[MysticMonk Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MysticMonk]

yeah i just finished my session and tried the 100% jelqs to feel out my thoughts and i must say it is much harder to get the sensation of moving blood throughout my penis when it feels like a rock. also, i don't like the sensation of doing it when my veins are fully engorged because it adds more pressure and i easily fear a busted vein . my cock just turtled thinking about it.

[eiffel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eiffel]

Attacking my experience is a moot and fallacious argument. I could be a chimpanzee talking in sign language, a dolphin speaking nose language, or a fruit fly writing Chinese characters in the air by accident: if what I say is true, it's true no matter who I am or what experience I've had in the past.

We should not be discouraging productive debate. As long as the discussion doesn't become inflammatory, I think any subject should be fair game. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong here, because in the process of doing so I'd learn more as a result.

And yes, I often state things in absolutist terms because it'd be too unwieldy to preface each sentence with, "I could be wrong about this, and though I think my viewpoint stands to reason, there's always room for human error I guess." I'm not claiming to be omniscient here, I'm just sharing my opinions.

Furthermore, I think that for the sake of discussions like this, we should always assume that everyone's gain claims are bogus. I could just as easily come back and say, "I gained six inches in two weeks my way, so clearly it works!" I'm never going to take someone else's advice just because they said it worked for them (see, broscience). Belief in the experiences of others without reason is faith, and given that PE is a physical practice, not a relgious one, I don't think faith is the best way to approach this. If you have an issue with my points, just address them directly.

I think I will actually restate my claim here: length gains are not possible from jelqing alone without full erection, and girth gains are probably only attainable at at least 70% erection jelqing. It is true that high-but-not-full erection jelqing can create a greater-than-boner girth expansion without reaching 100%, but I just don't see length gains happening. The stretch factor is too dynamic, too stunted, too inconsistent, too fast.

Also, erect jelqing pushes the tissues beyond their normal limit in a three-dimensional fashion (in the same way edging/ballooning and pumping do), so no, it's not comparable to plain old masturbation. However, saying that we can gain length from -100% jelqing would also necessitate believing that erections themselves are sufficient enough expansion to cause gains, since -100% jelqing causes less length expansion than that.

[MysticMonk Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MysticMonk]

Attacking my experience is a moot and fallacious argument.
...We should not be discouraging productive debate. As long as the discussion doesn't become inflammatory, I think any subject should be fair game. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong here, because in the process of doing so I'd learn more as a result.

Mr. Fruit Fly, this has been a productive debate and i have seen good points from Danny on your side and good points by draggin, jury, rbi, and namsokiek on the side of less then 100% jelq. I tried your method today too and also told you how i felt about it, so no need to sound hostile.

, I think that for the sake of discussions like this, we should always assume that everyone's gain claims are bogus. I could just as easily come back and say, "I gained six inches in two weeks my way, so clearly it works!" I'm never going to take someone else's advice just because they said it worked for them (see, broscience). Belief in the experiences of others without reason is faith, and given that PE is a physical practice, not a relgious one, I don't think faith is the best way to approach this. If you have an issue with my points, just address them directly.

But you didn't say this, in fact you said that what you did you gained nothing! so in essence why would i follow this? because i think you may be lying? Why would I personally care to lie to people about my gains and theory? so i can fool people and make them waste time to play with their cock? I PE for myself, but this community has helped me gather great information to go through my trial and errors of finding what works. I say this, because it makes yourself contradicting when you too use this site to gather information of others "trial and errors" so yes you are doing the broscience thing.

I think I will actually restate my claim here: length gains are not possible from jelqing alone without full erection, and girth gains are probably only attainable at at least 70% erection jelqing. It is true that high-but-not-full erection jelqing can create a greater-than-boner girth expansion without reaching 100%, but I just don't see length gains happening. The stretch factor is too dynamic, too stunted, too inconsistent, too fast.

And sweet you finally agree that jelqing less than 100% does something more than just "massage the penis"

Remember, jelqing is a technique focusing on girth (WITH REPORTED LENGTH GAINS)
That's why it's suggested to jelq at approximately 30% to work on length and i agree this is not even as efficient as stretching, but that's why it is a GIRTH exercise.

[eiffel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eiffel]

I have only done erect jelqing as an experiment, to see if it's really as dangerous as people claim. I never intended to gain from it.

Broscience is when you say something like, "Do 100 reps of bench press to get swole, bro at the gym told me and he's ripped!" Using your own or other's anecdotal reports as the basis for your training modality, rather than knowledge and reason, is broscience. I'm not sure how you've conluded that I'm "doing the broscience thing".

Why would we jelq for length if it's less effective than stretching? Why is jelqing so often recommended to beginners, when it either adds girth (which hinders length) or is done at such a low erection level that its only function is to serve as a massage (in which case, 5-10 minutes would suffice)?

I think these are valid questions to be asking, and in my opinion, the answers call for a shift in the way we do things.

[eow. Member of the Month April 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close eow.]

Length gains from jelqing will be from increased EQ. I see no reason to jelq below 50% erection level besides getting a nice massage. Even if you jelq above 50%, if you don't grip hard enough the blood will just escape backward while you are stroking up. The question is, how hard do you need to grip in order to produce sufficient IC pressure for expansion past 100%?

[aBone2pick Senior Member Member of the Month July 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close aBone2pick]

Jelqing at 100% erection level is an awesome way to injure yourself. Trust me, I've been there. You can still push your glans to max capacity with a 60% jelq. There's no need to put your member under extra strain when you can achieve the same results under much safer conditions.

[MysticMonk Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MysticMonk]

Broscience is when you say something like, "Do 100 reps of bench press to get swole, bro at the gym told me and he's ripped!" Using your own or other's anecdotal reports as the basis for your training modality, rather than knowledge and reason, is broscience. I'm not sure how you've conluded that I'm "doing the broscience thing".

Why would we jelq for length if it's less effective than stretching?

I think these are valid questions to be asking, and in my opinion, the answers call for a shift in the way we do things.

Sorry i didn't check urban dictionary what broscience meant. What i intended to implicate was that all of your knowledge of PE has been through trial and error of other's knowledge and then you incorporate that to YOUR OWN BODY. Everyone is different, so we pass our knowledge of what worked for me, you, he, etc... It is up to ourselves to come up with what works for us, but you wouldn't even know where to start if it wasn't for someone else's practices originally.

BUT, since you want a shift in the way things are done, by all means PLEASE come up with a new way to PE so i can try your broscience out. Honestly, we are all working together, but you keep slightly twisting my words to keep repetitive conversation going, so really there is no point to reply anymore, except to refresh in my own mind what works for me while i wonder why you haven't gained any girth from gaining.

But please come up with a new method that works for you so i can try because i am open minded to try new ways.

-Cheers

Thanks EOW. What % do you jelq at? my fingers are much stronger and my forearms are now cut from PE lol.

[rbi99 Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close rbi99]

I have only done erect jelqing as an experiment, to see if it's really as dangerous as people claim. I never intended to gain from it.

Broscience is when you say something like, "Do 100 reps of bench press to get swole, bro at the gym told me and he's ripped!" Using your own or other's anecdotal reports as the basis for your training modality, rather than knowledge and reason, is broscience. I'm not sure how you've conluded that I'm "doing the broscience thing".

Why would we jelq for length if it's less effective than stretching? Why is jelqing so often recommended to beginners, when it either adds girth (which hinders length) or is done at such a low erection level that its only function is to serve as a massage (in which case, 5-10 minutes would suffice)?

I think these are valid questions to be asking, and in my opinion, the answers call for a shift in the way we do things.

You have completely lost me dude. You say don't follow the other fools because they did something and claimed it worked. Doesn't matter if the people doing the talking have been doing this for years, including people with medical field knowledge. Then you say you tried something once or twice for shits and giggles and you are here now to proclaim to the entire PE world that nearly everything we think we know about jelging is wrong. But now here comes my quandary, if I shouldn't listen to the people who have been doing this for years, why in the world would I listen to a guy with absolutely no experience? If attacking you for your lack of experience is a moot and fallacious point, what the hell is attacking years and years of actual PE practice? I am a very strong believer in thinking outside the box and the exercises that I have modified demonstrate that, but you my friend are simply after attention.

[namsokiek Banned Find all posts View Profile Close namsokiek]

Attacking my experience is a moot and fallacious argument. I could be a chimpanzee talking in sign language, a dolphin speaking nose language, or a fruit fly writing Chinese characters in the air by accident: if what I say is true, it's true no matter who I am or what experience I've had in the past.

Right, but if the things you are saying are not true (as I took careful pains to explain) then you're just talking out your ass, regardless of your animal species.

We should not be discouraging productive debate. As long as the discussion doesn't become inflammatory, I think any subject should be fair game. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong here, because in the process of doing so I'd learn more as a result.

And yes, I often state things in absolutist terms because it'd be too unwieldy to preface each sentence with, "I could be wrong about this, and though I think my viewpoint stands to reason, there's always room for human error I guess." I'm not claiming to be omniscient here, I'm just sharing my opinions.

Although you are advocating a productive debate, you fail to foster it in your posts and you don't recognize it when it comes. You shouldn't be so sensitive when your careless and inflammatory choice of words bait others into an attack. Your excuse for not taking greater care is false dichotemy (added because you like fallacy so much).

I think I will actually restate my claim here: length gains are not possible from jelqing alone without full erection, and girth gains are probably only attainable at at least 70% erection jelqing. It is true that high-but-not-full erection jelqing can create a greater-than-boner girth expansion without reaching 100%, but I just don't see length gains happening. The stretch factor is too dynamic, too stunted, too inconsistent, too fast.

Now the assumptions of you original argument has prove false, you've "restate"d your claim. Nice application of "moving the goalposts" (another shout-out to another fallacy). Perhaps if you had taken greater care to write your first post, you might have figured out what you really meant before hitting that "post reply" button.

Keep in mind, your entire arguments are based on an appeal to complexity (FALLACY, you're really good at using these). You don't understand something (or judging from your responding posts, you don't want to understand), so clearly it's something that no one can understand therefore all answers are faulty. You've created an heuristic response to answers that don't include the phrase "Oh eiffel, you're sooo smart and sooo intellectual. I'm in awe of your wisdom and insight despite your admitted lack of experience."

Acknowledging your admitted lack of experience isn't attacking it. This happens because you might have disproved most of your weaker, unsupported claims through experience.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

This notion of not being able to make gains without being erect while jelquing is false. When you jelque you force blood to expand. Dont have to be hard for that. All I get out of this thread is that the OP has not yet come close to getting the hang of the jelque.