Kegels galore. Awareness and junk.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Hi all.
I recognise that there are various guides for identifying the specific muscles involved in various kegel exercises, yet the question (and to be fair, guidance) comes up time and time again.

I have also become aware in the few months since starting to do kegels, and from discussions relating to balance in that area, that there are at least four beneficial types, yet only two (normal and reverse) are typically discussed.

The two types of normal kegels I know are the forward "stop piss" one that twitches your cock and helps bring on orgasm, and the clench-your-arse type that most published materials tell you is wrong when you're learning kegels.

The two types of reverse are more subtle, but again, there's one that focuses more forwards and makes you extremely hard when erect, and the other that focuses backwards, like forcing out a fart.

I would maybe visualise them from the side as four diagonal arrows of tension from the NE, NW, SE and SW in towards the centre of your pelvis.

Considering this, with a mind to gaining a deeper awareness of ones own body, and also WRT the idea of gaining/restoring balance in the pelvic floor to tackle PE, is it worth working on a beginner routine that has the sole purpose of teaching awareness and awareness of response in the whole pelvic floor before progressing to any workout-type routines? It seems to me that starting from a place where you have much more understanding of your body would aid how one approached these exercises from day one and probably improve and enhance the results achieved.

Thoughts?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Most guys are doing well to do the standard and reverse kegel.
So if they do the standard kegel as a group and the reverse kegel as a group, this seems to work well.
There are many threads, not to mention pm's, regarding how difficult many guys find it to do any type of kegel.
If a guy is doing kegels, it is important imo, to do reverse as well. or an imbalance will worsen, or even in some cases develop.

In an ideal world ,everyone would be able to isloate each contraction,however it is only recently I have been able to seperate the 2 reverse kegels myself.

For that matter, I had never heard anyone talk of the 2 types of reverse kegel, until I brought it up. This was not long ago ,perhaps 6months ,certainly within the last year.

Has anyone heard mention of the 2 reverse kegels elsewhere?

You seem to have an ability and interest in fine motor control. You may find it of interest to talk to Minuteman, though you may find him esoteric.

I applaud your interest and motivation s.

[kingpole Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close kingpole]

Two more kegels. Fully erect BC kegel or PC kegel. Then thier is intensity soft moderate and hard. You can hold a moderate kegel longer.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

... So if they do the standard kegel as a group and the reverse kegel as a group, this seems to work well.

It's funny, the first guide I read about standard kegels, maybe 5 or 6 months ago made a point of saying that if you squeezed your anus you were doing it wrong! As a result I worked quite hard from day one to isolate those two, and until I came here I had been under the impression that the anus clenching variety was a no-no.

... however it is only recently I have been able to seperate the 2 reverse kegels myself.

I'm surprised! I guess I must be pretty lucky then, because I only did my first reverse kegel a couple of weeks ago and it felt pretty distinct, one expanding the BC and one expanding the PC. I wonder if that's more to do with my already having PC and BC isolated?

I applaud your interest and motivation s.

Nothing worthwhile ever came easy, huh. Thanks for the vote of confidence

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Two more kegels. Fully erect BC kegel or PC kegel. Then thier is intensity soft moderate and hard. You can hold a moderate kegel longer.

yeh, I find that if I try to hold a hard one, it just falls off slowly until suddenly I'm able to give it another pump. I'll try those. The first one is basically what you're doing with a towel raise, right? I'm pretty weak at those.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

It's quite funny really, all my early time with kegel I was self taught. Now I noticed there were a couple of different sensations, so I did some of all of them because; hey why not. Of course mmo was regarded as impossible ,so I did my own thing there also.
Many of the things you find here are simple after you know them. Discovering them in the first place, is a different matter.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Has anyone heard mention of the 2 reverse kegels elsewhere?

I haven't. But I'm aware now that part of the problem is in the majority of directions found on the internet at large. Kegels, and reverse kegels are described in many places, but those descriptions commonly seem to either confuse the "forward" and "backward" varieties I mentioned above or they describe a coarser contraction/compression covering both.

I think it stands to reason that given two contraction muscles, BC and PC, that there would be two complementary "expansion" movements respectively, but they are only subtly distinct (at least at first) so I can see them being easy to miss. As you say, sometimes it only takes one person to point something out to make it obvious.

Also I note that that coarse measure is in a way analagous to how I used to see my entire pelvic floor, as one chunk of my body that "does things," and it's only with a little guidance, practice and attention that I've been able to recognise any conscious differentiation at all. As I've said before It is amazing to me that there's so little prior knowledge in this area apparently available, and possibly something a little embarrassing for medical science to reflect upon. Nonetheless that makes it all the more wonderful that we're finding these things out now.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

I find it frightrning, that it is not medical science that is discovering this, but us here.
You are now part of the cuting edge of medical science spanky lol.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hi all.
I recognise that there are various guides for identifying the specific muscles involved in various kegel exercises, yet the question (and to be fair, guidance) comes up time and time again.

I have also become aware in the few months since starting to do kegels, and from discussions relating to balance in that area, that there are at least four beneficial types, yet only two (normal and reverse) are typically discussed.

The two types of normal kegels I know are the forward "stop piss" one that twitches your cock and helps bring on orgasm, and the clench-your-arse type that most published materials tell you is wrong when you're learning kegels.

The two types of reverse are more subtle, but again, there's one that focuses more forwards and makes you extremely hard when erect, and the other that focuses backwards, like forcing out a fart.

I would maybe visualise them from the side as four diagonal arrows of tension from the NE, NW, SE and SW in towards the centre of your pelvis.

Considering this, with a mind to gaining a deeper awareness of ones own body, and also WRT the idea of gaining/restoring balance in the pelvic floor to tackle PE, is it worth working on a beginner routine that has the sole purpose of teaching awareness and awareness of response in the whole pelvic floor before progressing to any workout-type routines? It seems to me that starting from a place where you have much more understanding of your body would aid how one approached these exercises from day one and probably improve and enhance the results achieved.

Thoughts?

As far as i know, there are four kegel variations.

Clenching the BC muscle, that is Kegel for us men, clenching the PC muscle that is called (in yoga) Root Lock, both are beneficial in their own way, that differs from person to person if we disregard the muscle building of course.

The other thow are reverse kegel and reverse root lock.

You do the kegel buy stoping urine, or better yet by clenching the muscles just behind the testacles, for root lock you are clenching your anus.

As for the reverse kegels/root locks it is a little different. To do a reverse kegel is like forcing urine out, your use the muscles that are between the belly and the penis, and one between the balls and anus. On other hand reverse root lock is a movement you do when you go to take a dump.

Now as you remember in Implications topic, it has been implied that due to the imbalance between the reverse and regular kegels that the premature or delayed ejaculation occurs.

However there is one more dimension, and that is a imbalance between the root locks and kegels (or to use medical terms between PC and BC). I think that in order to have a well balanced pelvic floor muscles all four kegels should have some %. What is that percent depends on the nature of the problem.

Of course the distinction between the root lock and kegel for most isn't important because most people when doing kegel usually do both root lock and kegel at the same time, same goes to the revere kegel.

Most exercises in my signature cover all 4 variations trough exercises. I tried to be as specific as possible without being to esoteric when describing them.

That is more or less all i know about kegels...

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

I find it frightrning, that it is not medical science that is discovering this, but us here.
You are now part of the cuting edge of medical science spanky lol.

Maybe they discovered that long about, just didn't bother telling anyone. I mean practic solutions aren't profitable and most of the time, i'm sorry to say, that is the turning wheel.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Post 9 excellent MM.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Maybe they discovered that long about, just didn't bother telling anyone. I mean practic solutions aren't profitable and most of the time, i'm sorry to say, that is the turning wheel.

Possible, but why spread misinformation instead? Plus you'd think that a reliable and effective PE treatment would be a goldmine wouldn't you? Who knows, maybe somebody *is* selling good info?

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

However there is one more dimension, and that is a imbalance between the root locks and kegels (or to use medical terms between PC and BC).

This theoretically sits pretty well with my current problem, as I've found that relaxing away involuntary BCs (as far as I can) is profoundly close to where I need to be. I'm still more sensitive than I was, even doing this, but I'm hoping this might just subside a little as I train up. Anyway, whether that represents a PC/BC imbalance or a BC/reverse imbalance I couldn't say. I suspect the former though, as I've taken to RKs quickly and easily, and found them both firm and effective. PC squeezes on the other hand, less so. In light of that I might start doubling up both PC and BC individually in my exercises and see how that goes. Hopefully it'll make relaxing away involuntary BCs easier. Maybe it'll flip a switch and eliminate them anyway? It's only gonna take a couple of weeks to find out I guess.

The interesting thing of course is that in doing this, if successful, that does open the door to resisting ejaculation in full with some focus, which is a hell of a compensation for 6 years of bad sex, lol

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Enjoy the journey spanky .
You will be able to resist ejaculation before very long ,then the path will take you to mmo.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Mate, I'll be bouncing off the walls if this all works !

Enough theorising and changing my mind for now anyway, I'm making a decision and gonna stick with a PC/BC focused kegel routine for a week or two to see where that leaves me. I guess a couple of hundred of short ones in 50s maybe broken up with a handful of longer ones like 50/10/50/10 daily for a week ought to do the trick. I can always up it in a week if that's too gentle.

I've been slack actually, only doing them randomly through the day when I remembered, and then along came the RK and I kinda stopped BC pulls. So I bet i get tired quickly at first!

Here goes nothing anyway.