My efforts to overcome PE over last 8-10 weeks still haven't helped. Need your help

[tantra Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tantra]

ED led to my terrible PE

5 months ago, in my late 20s, I realized I have terrible ED, as I wasn't able to get it up with a couple of girls on multiple occassions. Being young, healthy, and leading an active lifestyle with a good diet and never smoking/drinking/drugs, I started to get very worried. Hours of research online led me to Your Brain On Porn | Evolution has not prepared your brain for today's Internet porn. and Partake in the ultimate challenge - r/NoFap, and I decided to give up porn and masturbation on the spot. As of today, it's been 4 and a half months that I've gone without porn and masturbation, and I've had only ~10 orgasms with girls in that time.

Of course, the increased sensitivity has led me to having terrible PE. To the point where I wasn't able to fuck 2 girls recently because I came in my underwear while kissing one half-naked girl, and had an orgasm while rolling on a condom with another girl, if you can believe that! How unfortunate!

Why I can't use edging exercises now to overcome PE

Because I'm not seeing a girl long-term, I don't get laid as much as I want and therefore can't get sensitized to the feeling of sex so that I can actually start to get better. I'm highly inexperienced sexually, and I feel like I can't get better unless I finally start practicing regularly. The edging exercises that help you last longer are something I'd like to try, but I'm not sure I'm fully cured of my porn-induced ED so I don't want to start masturbating just yet... (What do you think about this?) After all, if I really were cured I assume my refractory period with both girls would have been quicker and we'd have ended up having sex that night.

I just had the first wet dream of my life last week! So this is telling me that the no porn/masturbation efforts are starting to pay off, so I don't think it's a good time to stop these efforts.

Also, I think that when I've overcome my ED, it'll help me against my PE, because my body won't feel like it needs to make me cum quickly (because it knows that I won't lose my erection). And I heard that not masturbating can in some ways help against PE because most people who masturbate do so in a rush to finish, training your body to go for orgasm quickly.

My intense, dedicated kegel / reverse kegel program

I've been very disciplined about doing kegels and reverse kegels every 2-3 days (so that there are rest days in between), and have been doing them for probably 8-10 weeks. I'm surprised I haven't seen much improvement, considering the intensity of the kegel program I do (is it too much, could that be causing it?). In fact, the kegels themselves are getting so strong that every now and then I feel minor waves of pleasure going through my body as described in the MMO materials. I also focus completely on the exercises, doing them when laying in my bed rather than in the car, work, etc.

10 x (15 second kegel, 10 second rest)
10 x (15 second reverse kegel, 10 second rest)
3 x (2 minute kegel, 1 minute rest)
3 x (2 minute reverse kegel, 1 minute rest)
20 x (5 seconds kegel, 5 second reverse kegel, continuously)
150 fast kegel clenches
150 fast reverse kegel releases

All in all, the whole routine above takes about 45 minutes. If done once every 3 days, is this still too much? I'm willing to do as much as I need to in order to overcome my PE.

I should also say that most of the times I put on a condom while doing the kegels, to get me used to the feeling of them for when I'm having sex. And whether or not I'm kegelling with a condom, I can't stay hard while doing kegels or reverse kegels. In fact, with kegels in particular I find that my penis actually shrinks while I'm holding a really strong kegel (is that normal?).

Views towards ED drugs and ED/PE supplements

I'm not completely against the idea of asking my doctor about the various ED drugs and getting some samples if that's what he recommends, or trying the many herbal and other types of supplements people have mentioned on this website. But I'm not completely up for it either, because I feel like I want to solve these problems based on their underlying causes, rather than ingesting something to give me an extra edge. Because then once I stop taking them I'll lose the effects. I don't want to rely on something for my sexual performance. I just want to have a healthy sex life like the guys out there who are naturally good at sex.

Confusion about kegels vs reverse kegels for overcoming PE

I'm also quite confused as to what the difference is between kegels and reverse kegels as it relates to PE. Reading into the taoist sexual practices, and MMO techniques, I began to learn that having incredibly STRONG pelvic floor muscles (through kegels) are the key to prolonging sex and not ejaculating. If I've understood correctly, the idea is that those muscles will squeeze around the prostate so strongly that it won't spasm and you won't end up ejaculating?

But then on the other hand I've been reading here that having incredibly RELAXED pelvic floor muscles (through reverse kegels) are the key to avoiding PE, because it stops the orgasmic contractions from happening. So I'm confused as to which is correct, because unless I've misunderstood something it seems like conflicting information. And if it is necessary to have relaxed muscles during sex, then what is the benefit of doing regular kegels as it relates to PE?

Male Multiple Orgasm

MMO is something I'd certainly be interested in learning over time, though my biggest priority right now is having sex the way most guys do who are 'great' at sex. If the 2 goals of MMO and overcoming PE are at odds with each other, I'd certainly choose to overcome PE.

On a somewhat different topic, I'm wondering if you end up being able to do incredibly strong kegels, wouldn't you just be doing a retrograde ejaculation instead (i.e. into the bladder) instead of true MMO? You're having sex, incredibly aroused, and your body wants to cum but your kegels are so powerful that it prevents the huge ejaculation from coming out of your penis, so all the pressure sends the ejaculation through the next possible option, the bladder? I imagine this isn't how it works, because otherwise MMO wouldn't be possible, but I'm curious about why it doesn't work the way I've described.


Thanks for reading my post. I'd love to get your insights and advice on what I can do to overcome PE. I'm willing to try anything, I'm very discplined and very motivated. Thanks a lot for your help.

[imac Retired Moderator Member of the Month Nov 12PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close imac]

Why I can't use edging exercises now to overcome PE

Because I'm not seeing a girl long-term, I don't get laid as much as I want and therefore can't get sensitized to the feeling of sex so that I can actually start to get better. I'm highly inexperienced sexually, and I feel like I can't get better unless I finally start practicing regularly. The edging exercises that help you last longer are something I'd like to try, but I'm not sure I'm fully cured of my porn-induced ED so I don't want to start masturbating just yet... (What do you think about this?) After all, if I really were cured I assume my refractory period with both girls would have been quicker and we'd have ended up having sex that night.

I just had the first wet dream of my life last week! So this is telling me that the no porn/masturbation efforts are starting to pay off, so I don't think it's a good time to stop these efforts.

Also, I think that when I've overcome my ED, it'll help me against my PE, because my body won't feel like it needs to make me cum quickly (because it knows that I won't lose my erection). And I heard that not masturbating can in some ways help against PE because most people who masturbate do so in a rush to finish, training your body to go for orgasm quickly.

You've being off porn long enough that it's fine to start edging. Do it slowly and focus only on the physical sensations and you don't have to cum at the end of a session if you don't what to.
I'm still trying for my first DO so I never cum when edging any more.

My intense, dedicated kegel / reverse kegel program

I've been very disciplined about doing kegels and reverse kegels every 2-3 days (so that there are rest days in between), and have been doing them for probably 8-10 weeks. I'm surprised I haven't seen much improvement, considering the intensity of the kegel program I do (is it too much, could that be causing it?). In fact, the kegels themselves are getting so strong that every now and then I feel minor waves of pleasure going through my body as described in the MMO materials. I also focus completely on the exercises, doing them when laying in my bed rather than in the car, work, etc.

10 x (15 second kegel, 10 second rest)
10 x (15 second reverse kegel, 10 second rest)
3 x (2 minute kegel, 1 minute rest)
3 x (2 minute reverse kegel, 1 minute rest)
20 x (5 seconds kegel, 5 second reverse kegel, continuously)
150 fast kegel clenches
150 fast reverse kegel releases

All in all, the whole routine above takes about 45 minutes. If done once every 3 days, is this still too much? I'm willing to do as much as I need to in order to overcome my PE.

I should also say that most of the times I put on a condom while doing the kegels, to get me used to the feeling of them for when I'm having sex. And whether or not I'm kegelling with a condom, I can't stay hard while doing kegels or reverse kegels. In fact, with kegels in particular I find that my penis actually shrinks while I'm holding a really strong kegel (is that normal?).

I would say that you're doing a bit too much and that you should be doing more reverse kegels than kegels. Your ratio of kegel to reverse kegels is 50:50 so you might want to try a 40:60 or a 30:70 in favour of reverse kegels.
Here's an example.

Try starting doing 10 min kegels (10 sec hold - 10 sec rest ) every third day and 10 min of reverse kegels ( 10 sec stretch -10 sec rest ) every day.
For example.
Monday. 10 min kegels and 10 min reverse kegels
Tuesday. 10 min reverse kegels
Wednesday. 10 min reverse kegels
Thursday. 10 min kegels and 10 min reverse kegels
Friday. 10 min reverse kegels
Saturday. 10 min reverse kegels
Sunday. Rest
Then when you become more balanced you can change it to kegels every other day or increase the time for kegels or the length of the hold.

Once you develop pelvic floor balance you'll have being doing it long enough to know what the best combo is for you.

The routine above is basically what mine is except I do my kegels for 20 min ( 10 min of 20 sec holds and 20 sec rest and 10 min of 1 min holds with 1 min rest ) and I do front reverse kegels for 15 min ( 30 sec stretch and 30 sec rest )
This is the routine that works for me for to keep my pelvic floor balanced. Everyone's different so you need to tweak your routine to what's best for you once you have the knowledge and experience to do so. Don't just rely on a generic routine that someone has told you to do listen to the feedback your body gives you.

I would also take the quick contraction kegels out of your routine they'll only make your involuntary kegels worse. Stick to kegel holds.

Confusion about kegels vs reverse kegels for overcoming PE

I'm also quite confused as to what the difference is between kegels and reverse kegels as it relates to PE. Reading into the taoist sexual practices, and MMO techniques, I began to learn that having incredibly STRONG pelvic floor muscles (through kegels) are the key to prolonging sex and not ejaculating. If I've understood correctly, the idea is that those muscles will squeeze around the prostate so strongly that it won't spasm and you won't end up ejaculating?

But then on the other hand I've been reading here that having incredibly RELAXED pelvic floor muscles (through reverse kegels) are the key to avoiding PE, because it stops the orgasmic contractions from happening. So I'm confused as to which is correct, because unless I've misunderstood something it seems like conflicting information. And if it is necessary to have relaxed muscles during sex, then what is the benefit of doing regular kegels as it relates to PE?

During sex or edging reverse kegels are used to stretch and relax your pelvic floor muscles, your BC muscle in particular. Doing this correctly pushes back the PONR and allows you to last longer.

https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...se-kegels.html

Kegels are used just at the PONR just before you're about to cum to stop your ejaculation.

Male Multiple Orgasm

MMO is something I'd certainly be interested in learning over time, though my biggest priority right now is having sex the way most guys do who are 'great' at sex. If the 2 goals of MMO and overcoming PE are at odds with each other, I'd certainly choose to overcome PE.

On a somewhat different topic, I'm wondering if you end up being able to do incredibly strong kegels, wouldn't you just be doing a retrograde ejaculation instead (i.e. into the bladder) instead of true MMO? You're having sex, incredibly aroused, and your body wants to cum but your kegels are so powerful that it prevents the huge ejaculation from coming out of your penis, so all the pressure sends the ejaculation through the next possible option, the bladder? I imagine this isn't how it works, because otherwise MMO wouldn't be possible, but I'm curious about why it doesn't work the way I've described.


Thanks for reading my post. I'd love to get your insights and advice on what I can do to overcome PE. I'm willing to try anything, I'm very discplined and very motivated. Thanks a lot for your help.

I can't be much help here because this is still something I'm trying for myself but I know Minuteman successfully overcame PE by achieving DO/MMO you should read he log.
https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...asmic-log.html

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

On a somewhat different topic, I'm wondering if you end up being able to do incredibly strong kegels, wouldn't you just be doing a retrograde ejaculation instead (i.e. into the bladder) instead of true MMO? You're having sex, incredibly aroused, and your body wants to cum but your kegels are so powerful that it prevents the huge ejaculation from coming out of your penis, so all the pressure sends the ejaculation through the next possible option, the bladder? I imagine this isn't how it works, because otherwise MMO wouldn't be possible, but I'm curious about why it doesn't work the way I've described.

All I know about DOs: (in more detail here https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...asm-guide.html)

Picture for reference

http://i47.tinypic.com/2vjboue.jpg


When your pevlic floor isn't conditioned enough, your attempts at do will result in dribble partial ejaculation (when your muscles are most unconditioned), partial ejaculation and retrograde ejaculation (when your muscles are somewhat conditioned), and retrograde ejaculation (when you are well up).

Now retrograde ejaculation can be harmful for your body and in most sources you will read that dry orgasm IS actually retrograde ejaculation. You can confirm is it is a retrograde ejaculation by simply urinating just as you have had (the DO I mean) it, and you will have a somewhat sticky whitish urine at the start.

But DO actually is not a retrograde ejaculation and here is a simple reason why, the point of DO kegel hold is to stop any and every spasms that occur, so that the sperm can even get to that point where it "has the choice" of redirecting into bladder.

I remember at the beginning I was afraid that continuous DO will cause me to have chronic retrograde ejaculation problems since by many sources that is what DO was also called. But as I was getting better and better (and almost always urinating after DO attempts) I noticed that in my urine there where no sperm it wasn't even a little bit clouded (I urinated in a cup to prove this to myself), because to I do not want to do anything to bring myself hard, not even for the sake of fixing premature ejaculation, so for the some part of my journey I was very skeptical of all this.

It is best when you start to do the DO to test this out for yourself and not to really on others. If I had any medicine equipment I would go as far as to test if there is any sperm in my urine after DO. But in essence, something must pull all that sperm from down there, and if you stop the muscle that is pulling them nothing will come up, there for nothing will redirect.

In essence the ideal DO (perfect DO) is when you have a kegel hold activated in specific way (technique) and specific strength (strength) and at a specific time (timing) that it STOPS all other spasms stop after the first one, in other words you completely stop the ejaculation. You are left with orgasmic feeling. That is what anyone who is practicing DO should aim for.

Many people when they are not far in MMO think that the orgasmic feelings that you have come solely from the spasms that occur and even tough this is correct (in a way that spasms produce pleasure) you can feel orgasm without them moving at all, and just get them from friction on your glans and penis. If you noticed sometimes when you are near ponr and when your involuntary kegels are not acting up you are still feeling immense pleasure, there fore orgasmic feelings are not solely from spasms of the pelvic floor, if they where we wouldn't even have sex, we would have just do kegels all day long.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

Yeah... more reverse kegel exercises than regular kegels.
(I always suggest no reg kegels at all for 3 months for major PE cases like yours)
Stay away from porn and start edging and especially ballooning for you.

[tantra Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tantra]

Thanks for the advice. I'll certainly stop with the kegels for now and only do reverse kegels. As I'm on a no porn/masturbation streak which I'm not overly enthusiastic about breaking, I'm wondering how much improvement can I expect with just a dedicated reverse kegel program but no masturbation (i.e. no edging, ballooning, etc)?

Also, I will seriously consider edging and if I decide it's for me, I'll invest in a Fleshlight, which is something I've been thinking about for years but never have done. If I purchase it, is it better to get the tightest insert so I'll be able to work on how long I can last? I'm afraid that it'll make me less sensitive to a real pussy (i.e. the sex toy equivalent of 'death grip syndrome' in manual masturbation) - in this case, should I get the loosest insert they have, which is the original one I think.

If I do invest in a Fleshlight, how often should I be using it and what should I be trying to accomplish in my edging sessions? And what do you think about the different textured inserts that Fleshlight sells with regards to fixing PE?

So if I've got this right, reverse kegel during pretty much all of sex to keep orgasm away, but when orgasm gets very close do a very strong regular kegel to allow the orgasm to occur but limit/stop the ejaculation?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Not a fan of "rebooting". laying off porn is ok but the no masturbation part just seems weird.

Having control of the pelvic floor is usefull for both pre e training and mmo.

Many authorities claim dry orgasm is retro orgasm amd they are just wrong. A retro ejaculationis is a wet ejaculation that has gone backwards as it were, while a dry orgasm is dry that is no ejaculate.


many guys continue on to mmo training after controling pre e

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

I agree, if I got to chose between edging and kegel/rk routine, I would pick edging without thought. Edging when done right and in moderation is one of the best tools for premature ejaculation.

Not to mention that any results that you get with kegel/rk routine will not be much verified without edging. Also edging doesn't need to be intensive, it can be gentle, it can be paced, it even doesn't have to be frequent.

Now on the other hand with more serious cases like this one https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...ious-help.html complete stop, with once-per-week masturbation for health resasons, and no porn, no kegels and no edging (at least I believe so) is the best option.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

I also suggest watching porn without touching yourself AT ALL for about 3 weeks, then stop watching it completely. It trains your system to not react so quickly to that stimuli. It's like easing off of it slowly but with a de programming effect. It's part of arousal control.