Stop kegeling and start squatting. Article and discussion.

[Spoonman84 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spoonman84]

I've posted this on a different site and got completely derailed and since squatting is highly advised here I'd thought I'd repost this to really discuss and explain why it works. Strengthening and stretching the pelvic floor is always mentioned. But I want to explain the sacrums relationship to the pelvic floor balance because it's never mentioned . Warning its bit of a long read.

What first got my attention was on a famous body building forum MANY people state how they fixed their premature ejaculation, ED, EQ, and would have random erections once they started working out. We all know better overall fitness is good on EQ.But I always wanted to pinpoint exactly why. Everyone had a theory but nobody knows exactly why. They all chaulked it to higher testosterone and better circulation from working out the legs. But the majority stated it only change once they started squatting and deadlifting. As most know squats and deads target the postieor chain.So I googled squats with other terms until I did squats and pelvic floor then I found a lot of results. One of the biggest topics on any PE forum is "Pelvic floor balance" and how you need reverse kegels to balance out your pelvic floor.We often here how people get premature ejaculation,hard flaccid, and other issues when starting kegels, but helps others. The reason is they actually make are making your pelvic floor tighter not stronger. You can have both a weak and tight pelvic floor. Often falsely assuming there tight pelvic floor is because it's over toned but just tight and weak in reality. Kathie Bowen is a leading expert on pelvic floor issues and is the person mainly responsible for women to quit doing kegels and start squatting.

"A Kegel attempts to strengthen the pelvic floor, but it really only continues to pull the sacrum inward promoting even more weakness, and more PF gripping. The muscles that balance out the anterior pull on the sacrum are the glutes. A lack of glutes (having no butt) is what makes this group so much more susceptible to pelvic floor disorder (PFD). Zero lumbar curvature (missing the little curve at the small of the back) is the most telling sign that the pelvic floor is beginning to weaken. An easier way to say this is: Weak glutes + too many Kegels = PFD"

This helps explain why kegels make things worse for some and explain why some people can't get results with reverse kegels. because True pelvic floor balance has not been achieved . A reverse kegel can indeed stretch the pelvic floor but will always be constantly tight. Without theconstant pull of sacrum it will remain out of balance . You can read people doing kegels and extreme cases feeling pain in there tail bone and back. I found this all interesting and haven't seen it discussed much. Squats both stretch the pelvic floor and make it contract much greater then kegels due to the intra abdominal pressure. This is true and always mentioned But never are we mentioning that the squat is strengthing the sacrum counter pull to prevent the pelvic floor being tight. This might explain why some people never get results.

Please feel free to rip this apart if I'm wrong. Am I'm not and other experts aren't saying not to Nessairly to stop kegels and reverse kegels all together. They have worked for countless people but trying to look at the problem from a different angle.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

The additional knowledge is nice, but you should not say that it is not discussed. We promote the use of squats also. Pegasus just reiterated the strengthening properties of the squat as well as the stretching that the squat helps with. Great information, but spend some more time on our forum and you might find a surprising amount of information adding exactly this to your knowledge base. Thanks for sharing, and keep it up.

[Spoonman84 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spoonman84]

Wishful thank your for the response. But in my first sentence I stated that my reason for posting is because squatting highly discussed here not that it's not. I am aware of Pegasus contributions posts of strength and stretching with squats but that is not my point of the post. My point was to discuss the sacrums relationship to the pelvic floor and how targeting the sacrum is correcting pelvic floor issues.

[Spoonman84 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spoonman84]

I'm trying to say is stretching or strengthing is good it's important but it's already discussed in great detail. What I'm trying to say is how the sacrum is responsible for pelvic floor balance might be more important according to Dr. Kathie Bowen.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

I agree and thank you for the clarification. I am against the premise of stopping the kegel. While the squat is very beneficial I Dont think they should replace the kegel. The strengthening provided by kegels to the PC muscle is important independent of the sacrum. For instance incontinence jssues. So I like the use of both. Neither or rather none of these excersizes should be used to the exclusion of others as well as other methods of stretching. Your information is excellent and valuable, but I Dont like the idea of excluding the kegel for the benefits supplied by the kegel. Again thank you for the information it is valuable. Would you reconsider the part about dumping kegels completely?

[Spoonman84 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spoonman84]

I am 100% for people still doing them as are the experts. I wish I could edit older post to be more cleae. Kegels and reverse work and helped countless others. The title I used is from the article with the same name i quoted in my first post. Her argument is when doing too many they become bad as we all know. Reverse kegels stretch and alleviate the symptoms . But it's not balancing the pelvic floor cause it's still being pulled and not countered. .It will remain under tension and pulling untill the counter balance of the sacrum pulls against it. When we squat we also strengthen the sacrum but it's not the best way imo to strengthen the sacrum.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

Gotcha, thanks so much. I appreciate the information, and clarification. Nice post.

[Carson32 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carson32]

Nice Post. Always love when some shares new ideas and new information that can help so many.

[sameel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sameel]

I personally think it is the abs workout which helps in premature ejaculation. You can do it with deadlifts, squats, leg lifts or any other exercise or sports etc. You also use abs in reverse kegals and deep breathing (the way the yogi's do it). Abs workout builds the reverse kegal muscles naturally.

I personally like the leg lifts over squats (because my knees start hurting while doing squats).
Once you build abs strength, you can easily pump the pelvic floor while thrusting.

[2muchtension Member Find all posts View Profile Close 2muchtension]

Okay, wow, I think you might be onto something. I never even considered this but just reading what you were saying about body building, I had a thought.

Backstory: My log is here: https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...sual-case.html - In summary, I was in a relationship for a long time. Started having some PE issues off and on. Relationship ended and was single for a while. During that time, I decided to resume my strength training (big focus on squats/deadlifts). I was hard into it for a few months and around that time started hooking up with a new lady. She gave me head and I came pretty quickly. I explained the PE issues I'd had previously, and after that, it literally never happened again. Not once.

Fast forward a few months, I've stopped seeing this girl. I've also stopped hitting the gym and have lost most of my strength (busy with school) - started things with an old hookup, and bam. PE issues.

So, basically I was squatting/deadlifting hard around the time my PE went away. I mostly chalked it up to anxiety issues, but now I've stopped lifting and they're back. I've also done tons of kegels in the past and never really saw a significant improvement.

Hitting the gym tomorrow! I will update on whether this improves things over the next while.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Yes the muscle balancing effect of squats has been mentioned before, the effect of not squating as our ancestors did ,lead to muscle imbalance through the pelvic region that can effect the pelvic floor. Squat also has a direct effect on the pelvic floor and that has taken most of the press, so it is good you have chosen to stress this point . The article has been mentioned onsite previous . Obviously working a muscle without stretching can lead to spasm and tension and stretching (rk) can prevent and overcome this . Not all pf problems are caused by lack of posterior chain strength and not all are cured by strengthing it .

I have had an interest also in the effects of different types of squat .

[sexmaster Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sexmaster]

Thank you for the post. I was actually thinking about joining a gym, because of squats and deadlifts. I do workout 6 times a week, but all calisthenics. So I don't use weights, squat slowly and started the one legged squats as well, but it is probably not the best for balance. No deadlifts. Although, I like calisthenics, it is easy on my joints and very convenient at home, these two exercises are very important and also the best to raise testosterone. So I think I will expand to them. Thanks again.

[sameel Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sameel]

Guys
(1) Just give a try to leg lift exercise.
You can do it while sitting on the sofa. Just adjust your hips on the edge and your back rested on the sofa. Try to lift your legs a couple of feet from the floor. You should feel a nice pull on the lower abdomen muscles.
I think it can be alternative to deadlifts / rk etc.

(2) Tailbone squeeze kegal variation. Just bring the tailbone in mind and then try to squeeze it like a kegal. (though I don't feel squeeze around the tailbone but the muscle movement seems bit different than regular kegal, may be a little butt squeeze).
When I hold it and stroke or thrust, I feel way less stimulation. I have tried it during last 3 edging sessions and it seems a good control point.

Thanks

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Sameel you are trying to replicate the direct effect of squats . The thread is bringing emphasis to the muscle effect of squat in building the posterior chain thus stoping a muscle imbalance stressing the pf.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

I have been thinking on the effect of different forms of squat . The emphasis onsite has been hindi type squats, which are good for stretching the pelvic floor but not as good for building the posterior chain.