Spanky's voyage of self discovery

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Interesting times.

So I got very drunk last night and went home with Girl 2. I know, I know - it's pretty disrespectful to Girl 1. But the erectile gods cast their judgement on me and I couldn't stay hard long enough to finish.

Now I'm happy to chalk this up to Brewers Droop on this occasion, but It's not the first time. A couple of weeks back, Girl 1 wants anal and I couldn't get hard enough to do it. If I recall we had had a drink, but only one or two.

I've had this happen a few times now lately. I do 100 or so kegels a day. Should I be worried?

[wanthis Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wanthis]

Hmm.. I don't think you should worry. It may just be an anxiety thing. completely Psychological. And 2 girls? nice P.I.M.P lol

Oh anyways, I had my pathophysiology final today and here are some things that came into my attention while studying for the test: Erections are controlled by the parasympathetic nervous system(PNS). So you need to be relaxed and calm and stuff. Stress or anxiety can push your body to have more sympathetic tone and pushed your body towards the fight or flight response, which takes away from the PNS and results in a loss of erection. So that might explain somethings.

Now ejaculation is controlled by the sympathetic nervous system(SNS). So if you are nervous/stressed/ anxious you are more likely to cum early. I remember you mentioning your love for caffeine. Caffeine is stimulant and really charges up your SNS.. so thats relationship to think about.

And both the SNS and PNS are extremely sensitive to you psychological condition. There is a good chance you know these things already, but just in case it helps.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Well.. I'm not very proud of the Girl 2 thing. It was just a one-nighter, and I probably got what I deserved. a limp dick and nearly getting caught and breaking Girl 1's heart....

I'm sure you're right about it being anxiety - or at least partly. I was pretty drunk and not really feeling it as unlike this girl I actually have pretty strong feelings for Girl 1. Not that you'd know it from my actions, though in my defence, some of that is fear as I'm not in a place today where falling in love is convenient, however good it feels. Please don't hate me for this.

interesting re sympathetic/parasympathetic. I'm not sure about caffeine and me though. I'm mid 30s now and have drunk a lot of coffee since my 20s so after I gave it up for a month and it had the wrong effect I think Pegasus was right when he suggested I'm just used to it. That said, my response has been all over the place this last 4-6 weeks. Again, I think Pegasus may be right (who knew!) to suggest that I've spent some time kicking my pelvic floor and arousal response into gear and my body's just trying to find a new place to settle. Certainly my premature problem has changed beyond all recognition.

I'm definitely improving a lot in all sorts of ways though. I "edged" for an hour today.. I put "edged" in quotes because I didn't stop and had to force it at the end, tensing my thighs and all sorts. A couple of things of interest. I was texting filth to Girl 1 with my left hand during, which is kind of distracting, although what I was writing and imagining was turning me on no end so it was still highly arousing. Also, I was holding kegels and RKs back and forth throughout to keep myself hard. Partly because of what happened last night- I was a little anxious about my EQ. It may be that in doing that I was exerting conscious dominance over my pelvic floor, and that was kicking my involuntary automatic response into the background? Dunno.. just a theory.

I definitely think the above shows me that arousal isn't the issue with premature ejaculation, rather it's your response to it. Both physical (involuntaries & balance) and mental (being goal-oriented) responses combined to bring the issue on with me and I'm definitely whipping that into shape.

The other weird thing was that after an hour when I finally made myself ejaculate I instantly went numb on my glans and the top of my shaft (just like the 20 minute thing) rather than going hyper sensitive. I could easily have carried on if I'd wanted. I'm sure that's fatigue as I didn't stop stroking intensely throughout, but it's still something I want to explore further, as I think whilst maybe desensitisation isn't ideal, it has its uses, and maybe I would have gradually got sensation back if I'd carried on.

Stuff to think about anyway

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Well. This weekend with girl 1, we did pretty well. I'm not sure where to begin, or how much is relevant. I can say though that I am getting better all the time. It's still a bit of a mixed bag, but the urge to cum in two pumps... that's rare now. Happened only once this weekend, yet twice I was in total control, and once I couldn't even cum. I'm not sure that it's a good thing that she could masturbate me furiously (and well) for the best part of 25 minutes and not get a result, but I'll take that over soiling my pants as soon as looking at her.

Curiously, the two times I was in total control were different. Both times I had the twenty-minute sensation, where i felt a little numb, but getting there was different. The first time was a long, drawn out session, over maybe 2 hours, so by the time I went inside her, she'd already cum a couple of times and the pressure was off. Still managed another 15 minutes or so before deciding to speed up and go for ejaculation.

The second time, we'd just got in, and she was leaning over the table.. I knew zhe had no knickers on and I'd been teasing her all day.... and well... The rest is history. Thing is I had little to no warm up as such, and just went straight in. No problems at all. The only thing I can think is that the 4 or 5 hours of anticipation I'd built up with her.. and to be fair, I found it pretty hot her walking around without knickers on in a short skirt, maybe that constant long term low level arousal did it, y'know, rather than clothes off.. get hard.. bam. Plus, it's a different sort of arousal - rather than having the mindset of "I am going to get laid here" all day, I had the mindset of "I am going to give you the time of your life," so maybe that makes a difference.. actually I'm sure it does.

Then there was one more time where she was going down on me and using her hands, but for one reason or another even with me tensing up like crazy she couldn't get me over the edge at all. 25 minutes or so of *furious* masturbation, but no ejac. It felt *awesome* though. I was getting rushes or waves from the centre of my body spreading out for maybe a couple of minutes, then shortly after I was getting stronger ones starting from my head and shoulders spreading downwards for another few minutes. There was a definite lull of a bit less than a minute between the two. It felt amazing.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but just for completeness, I have my self awareness training to thank for me recognising that that may have been a drawn out wave orgasm (although no ejaculatory pumps, nor any PONR sensation of charging up) and it certainly felt orgasmic, but even if it wasn't, and all I had was a long time sitting just below PONR, it was certainly satisfying, maybe more so than actually cumming, I was totally blissed out.

I described it to her and she said "haha, you came like a girl!"

Touché

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Nice, those where definitely soft waves it seems you are the type to achive it more easily with the girl.

So, bottom line:

mindset and insight
conscious relaxing and breathing,
fixing the involuntary kegels

where your main tools against the premature ejaculation.

I don't know if you are doing any kegel and reverse kegel routine routine, but I am glad that I am reading a success story here.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Nice, those where definitely soft waves it seems you are the type to achive it more easily with the girl.

So, bottom line:

mindset and insight
conscious relaxing and breathing,
fixing the involuntary kegels

where your main tools against the premature ejaculation.

I don't know if you are doing any kegel and reverse kegel routine routine, but I am glad that I am reading a success story here.

I think that sounds fair, though I would add overall pelvic floor fitness. I'm not really sure if that's distinct or complementary to fixing involuntaries if we list them like that. Mindset & insight is a good way of putting it, a lot falls out of insight.

I'm kegeling thoughout the day when I remember, but I'm not very regimented. I think your stamina must just build up, as it feels automatic and I'm barely thinking about it any more, though I'm interested in the mindset angle here, especially the idea raised elsewhere re serotonin that general happiness would help - I mean I'm pretty happy right now, thanks in no small part to being able to satisfy her completely. It's a kind of feedback loop.

Do you think I might be able to achieve soft wave solo more easily now after that? It really was very nice indeed

Presumably hard wave is going through ponr again and again then, right? with BC contractions etc?

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hard wave is a DO after a DO in very quick succession it needs a Do to be able to fire it off, it is MUCH stronger.

A ponr over and over is just a stronger version of soft wave.

As for solo, i don't think you will be able to do it (i might be wrong you may never know if you don't try) at least not until you can have around 4-5 minute wave orgasms with your girl until you are able to capture the state of mind and the stuff that you must do or not to do to activate it.

It boils down how you experience youself, people like me, who are a little bit narcisistic and turned more to oneself then to other will probably be able to do this solo. It is all about the perception of oneself, how you accept yourself (i wrote about this in detail in the another post in this topic).

Since you are probably the type that must have "someone loving him to love himself" or something like that you will need your partner for a while until you are able to do it solo.

To be honest i think that is for the best since it builds a good relationship with your girl since she knows that she can give you enjoyment and therefore feel better about herself and you end in a positive loop. Since she is a girl, she know just how much that is important, since it is an act of a (more or less) a ultimate trust.

That is why if you can make your girl multi orgamsic or have a great time, that is not just because of you, but because she trusts you enought to give her self to you, in a way it is a higher form of sex, and much closer to making love.

At least that is how I see it.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

That is why if you can make your girl multi orgamsic or have a great time, that is not just because of you, but because she trusts you enought to give her self to you, in a way it is a higher form of sex, and much closer to making love.

At least that is how I see it.

MM, again, your insight is remarkable considering. The sex has been amazing, and she is multi-orgasmic with me. Trust is a huge part of that, I'm certain. Variety is really important in a good sex life, and being able to show her parts of her sexuality she didn't know she had in addition to straight up fucking really has been a golden ticket for both of us. I mean most guys can do the fucking, and it's all most guys want to do. Indeed it's all I used to do too, but I think there are very, very few guys who have anything like the knowledge we're gaining here. So I'm completely with you on seeing my PE as a blessing now, despite the years of misery it brought. I mean wow, what a payoff. Really. And I have you to thank for a hell of a lot of that

Of course I'm gonna try again for soft wave solo. I get what you're saying about being with someone, but I'm still hopeful I'll find it easier now. Did you find it was easier to achieve over time and with more experience? Or just easier to catch?

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Did you find it was easier to achieve over time and with more experience? Or just easier to catch?

Yeah, more or less. View soft wave orgasm as a consequence not a goal of having a good time, because in order to have in you have to feel really good and pleasurable about yourself and the things happening at the moment, then as you enjoy the now, the waves will start. At that time don't stop just behave like you did enjoy the now and the feeling should get stronger and stronger. If it doesn't then you have some kind of subconscious blockade where you don't actually want to go over some limit and that makes your waves fade, like you are embarrassed (i know it sounds silly but it happens).

A soft wave is like letting go of control, some can simply let go of control, and some has to surrender control to the other.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Just a note, I read back my post 34 on here from April 1 about MDMA and serotonin. Having now had a good wave orgasm, and thinking about a few other things that have been said on the subject since, I'm more convinced than ever that a large serotonin and associated endorphin release is a fundamental part of the process. I mentioned bonding in relation to MDMA effects (high serotonin) and Pegasus mentioned pair-bonding earlier in relation to experiencing wave with a partner, so that's just another reason I think we're talking about the same thing. Now I'm not a neurobiologist and can't explain all the details, but simply put, serotonin release in the brain enhances mood. With serotonin excess, endorphins are produced, which bring pleasure. Maybe there are other things going on, but I find that in this state I can consistently last. Prescription SSRIs or similar presumably achieve this... as does great sex.

Endorphins are released during orgasm, and I'm guessing a little, but I suspect the waves or rushes of pleasure associated with orgasm are specifically endorphin effects. Now interestingly .. since endorphins are opiates, like morphine, they also act as analgesics, relieving pain... certainly in larger amounts, and thus reduce sensitivity to outside stimulus.

Well this may be painfuly naive, but that suggests to me that high endorphin release will help you last. Many of us agree that the longer you sustain pleasure during arousal, the longer you can subsequently sustain pleasure without orgasm. It sounds like, and it seems that mood has a huge effect on staying power too. Serotonin is associated with happiness and mood, and increased serotonin levels result in more endorphins.

I wonder if this is related at all to the twenty minute effect, and the virtual impossibity I experienced in trying to ejaculate during wave, with endorphins being released like crazy.

It's a complete guess of course, and one that may prove the old adage that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" but it is a guess I feel is worth exploring properly.

An interesting summary here for the uninitiated - Emotional Wellness - The Endorphins and Serotonin Connection - Serotonin - Zimbio

Some things to try? - Natural ways to increase serotonin and endorphins - by Kimberley Heit - Helium

more technical info on wikipedia here Serotonin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and here Endorphin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia though these articles are a bit dry.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Well I managed to go into soft wave for a good while solo yesterday before blowing my load. Really quite pleased about that, it was maybe 20 minutes into an edging session and I just went with it. I was really paying attention on the sensations across my whole body, and trying to visualise my penis as merely the vehicle for those sensations over my whole body, not the focus of them. I was wriggling with the sensations as while it wasn't particularly intense, it was really very pleasurable, and then I started getting waves. I lost them after a minute or so but managed to bring it back by arching my back and tensing my shoulders (of course, may be coincidence) but this time it stayed around for at least another 5 minutes. the oddest thing I noticed was that my penis seemed a long way away, kind of out of focus both visually and mentally.

Just a note on that really. The thing I wanted to post was in response to a reply I posted on involuntary kegels here where I rambled on as I do, and I wonder if I had quite an insight. The more I think about it now, the more I think I'm on to something. Basically I've found that my control is somewhat unpredictable now, and I've been happy to leave things to fate for a while. Well we come back to involuntary kegels in moments of high arousal and low control, and the idea that full relaxation of the pelvic floor is a cornerstone of control. I think there's more to it.

It's certainly the case for me that strength and muscle balance in your pelvic floor has a direct relationship with your control. But consider also the background tension that I'vw spoken about a few times. It struck me that this background tension was maybe the very reason for involuntary kegels (which raise your arousal).. and then it struck me that maybe that background tension is *the* symptom of the type of muscle imbalance I had for years. This ties in with the talk of kegels to relax the pelvic floor and get rid of that tension, and the notion of using RKs to combat involuntaries and reduce your arousal, since RKs compete with your normal pelvic floor muscle tension.

So if this is right, what does this tell us. Well, for one, involuntary kegels may not actually be the cause, even if they are part of the problem. Rather a poorly conditioned pelvic floor leads to gentle tension - perhaps your body compensating for imbalance, which in turn leads to involuntary kegels, which in turn lead to a lack of arousal control, and all too often, PE. A well conditioned pelvic floor on the other hand, which is fully under conscious control will relax fully under normal circumstances and arousal will take a normal path. Building strong PC/BC/kegel muscles then brings control on top so you can speed up or slow down at will.

This would also suggest if I'm right that RKs are largely useless to a well conditioned pelvic floor, and only have an effect at very high stages of arousal - where your pelvic floor is likely to build up tension anyway.

Maybe this is obvious and old news, and I'm just thinking about it in different terms here, or maybe this is a different insight? It is for me either way. I'm going to be paying a attention to different things from now on anyway, so let's see.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Yes spanky this is how I long envisioned it.
If you think of it in terms of a rotator cuff injury. The chest becomes too strong relative to the R cuff muscles causing spasm ,weakness etc. Part of the rehab is R cuff exercises.
Now this does not mean that R cuff exercises are useless if you have no injury.

[La petite mort Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close La petite mort]

When you say "involuntary kegels", do you refer to a low level static tension in your BC/PC muscles or to muscle spasms/twitching?

I can identify with having both a build-up of static tension as well as spasms/twitching as I get more and more aroused. I've been trying to reduce the static tension by kegeling OR reverse kegeling (any sort of voluntary control of the muscles seem to help) and it seems to lessen the spasms/twitching.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Hi LPM. I'm referring to the contractions/twitches, though that background/static tension seems to contribute too. I think that the static tension may possibly be instrumental to escalating arousal physically, but too much, or unbalanced tension then leads to involuntary twitches, the most obvious initial symptom prior to full physical PE. I'm guessing a little, but in a way it doesn't matter if I'm right if it turns out that *acting* as though that's the case helps address the problem. Only time will tell.

Oh, and welcome to the gym

[steve123 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close steve123]

Congrats Spanky! I just read the log from front to back. Sounds like one heck of a jorney!