Progress

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I think i liked you better before..that is just me.

I understand why you would feel that way. However, it might help to see it the way I do: I am still in a state of transition; the end product is still unfinished. And, after exploring polyamory, if I do decide to go with monogamy, I will be so much more faithful and true to it, don't you think?

Like that Led Zeppelin song, "Mellow is the mind that knows what he's been missing."

I will know what it's like to have multiple lovers at once, and after having made a conscious, informed decision, I will no longer wonder what it would be like, which is what I feel leads many married men to cheat; they've never done it before.

Anyways, just my thinking about this whole thing.

EDIT: Something else I've noticed, is that if I'm using these intimacy-creating methods on people I've just recently met (less than a month), it tends to create romantic interest. If it's someone I've known for a while now (a few months or more), it tends to create stronger feelings of friendship and platonic love. So, these things I'm learning are not just about getting laid; they're also about strengthening friendship bonds, and helping people feel loved/appreciated.

People want love, why not give it to them?

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Ok, so Debbie called me up yesterday. Odd turn of events, she called to tell me that she feels I'm looking for something serious and thinks we should "take a step back". I was kind of relieved and told her that we're actually on the same page! But she didn't believe me and said, "There's what people say, and then what people do."

Umm, ok, so now she's telling me that she knows me better than I know myself? How about... no.

After that, I just told her that we had a lot of fun, the sex was great, and if she ever wanted to hook up again, I wouldn't say "no."

After reflecting on it more, I determined that she isn't mature enough to actually raise an issue for discussion; what had happened basically was that she made up her mind based on assumptions she made about me, and then projected those assumptions onto me, without really trying to determine where I actually stood. Plus, she didn't trust me enough that I would be honest with her.

Usually during my workout, I reach some kind of clarity when thinking about these kinds of issues, some way of thinking about the issue at hand that sticks. Today, the thought that came to me and settled in my mind was, "She's not worth worrying about. Go ahead and flirt with all those other women, without guilt!"

And that's what I plan to do tonight.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Saw Debbie last night, she actually showed up to give me my shirt. She put it in a little bag. I said hi, gave her a friendly "arm over the shoulder" type hug, but otherwise wanted to respect her decision to "take a step back." We danced twice, but it was kind of obligatory, no real feeling in it, which was expected.

What was unexpected was that, this morning I check on facebook, she had posted that there was some creepy stranger who danced with her and basically made her feel like he was going to rape her on the dancefloor. What I felt next was rather unexpected: I wanted to call her, talk to her, ask how she was, maybe even offer to go for coffee to make her feel better. As I was trying to get through my work for the morning, I was overcome by this feeling of helplessness, and then tears began welling up in my eyes. Yes, TEARS!

Yes, I cared about her. Yes, I wanted to be there for her. But I couldn't.

Something I told one of my friends last night, was that I didn't understand why people get the idea that, if something is only short-term, then it can't be very emotionally deep. Yes, I was affectionate towards her, I got to know her; maybe she was scared and didn't want to deal with the pain when we would eventually separate...? I don't know.

Although, part of me thinks it was probably a good thing that she decided to end it early.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Just wanted to share some things that I learned from other people around here.

My one friend, she's bisexual and we were talking about how to pick up women. She used this metaphor:

If you ask a woman on a diet, if she wants an ice cream sundae, she's going to say "no." But, if you put the sundae in front of her, she will start thinking, "Well, maybe I'll just have one bite." Eventually, she's going to eat the whole thing.

Another woman I just went out with last night, she mentioned that there are 5 "love languages", which are:
- touch
- time
- words of affirmation
- gifts
- acts of service

The trick is, to figure out which languages each person responds to best, and create affection that way. I found out my languages are: touch, time, and words of affirmation. Gifts, not so much.

Interestingly, upon reflection, it seems my ex-wife's langauges were: words of affirmation, gifts, acts of service. Maybe that's why neither of us felt appreciated.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Last night there was this one woman I had actually met quite a while ago, probably a year ago, but have rarely danced with her because I mainly see her leading instead of following. Well, just last week I asked her to dance, and we danced for our second time ever (the first time being a year ago). Then I saw her again this past Monday, asked her to dance again, and last night she was there again. It's not surprising to me that she was at all these places; I usually see her, but don't ask her to dance.

But she sat down next to me, put her arm around me and stroked my shoulder. Interesting. It made me feel close to her. I had also noticed many other people being very affectionate with her. I have a feeling she is also polyamorous, likely bisexual as well, perhaps someone I can learn from. I'll try to get to know her better and see what's going on there. She seems so confident, calm, and open when she talks to me, and it makes me want to get closer. I can tell she's much farther down the road than I am.

Another quote from that book "The Ethical Slut", that came to mind when I was thinking about her:

"... focus on abundance, and create a relationship ecology rich in the good things in life: warmth and affection and sex and love."

I am still stuck in the "jealousy" phase of things; feeling jealous and insecure if I see someone that I care about in the company of another. I also see this in other people when they see me being affectionate with someone they may be interested in; they give me the "evil eye" or perhaps just stare at us for a moment. I can tell what's going on in their minds. At the same time, this is exactly what I need to work on.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Ok so that woman who told me about the 5 "love languages", let's call her Clarissa. We went out last Thursday, had dinner together. She's very cuddly and likes to get close for hugs, holding hands, etc. Then she called me on Saturday to see what I was doing, we ended up going to a museum and then dinner together. Sunday she came by again (we live pretty close to each other), we went to watch a movie and then dinner. After dinner, she came in, and we had our first kiss, in the entryway. After that, she left to go back home. Monday we went dancing together, whenever I was sitting, she came by and sat next to me; did things like put her head on my shoulder, held my hand, put her hand on my leg. It was very nice.

During one of those times we were out together, she mentioned that she's not ready to get married any time soon. Ok, so she's not looking for anything serious. Perfect! I basically didn't say anything about my situation because I thought it was too early to bring up my divorce. Maybe soon I will. She is leaving on Thursday (tomorrow) evening to go to Hong Kong for a month. I'm taking her to the airport after bringing her dancing.

----------------------

So Clarissa isn't going to be here for Valentine's Day. Bummer. I decided to go ahead and ask P (East Indian girl) out to dinner for that day. She said that she has to tell this guy she's been hanging out with, that they're not dating, then she can go out with me. She said that she's too casual for him, she's the kind that "keeps condoms in her night stand." Hmm, ok... why the detail? Well, at least it means P isn't looking for anything serious, either. Double-perfect!

After I asked her to dinner, she suddenly got really cuddly with me, snuggling up really close, sitting or standing next to me whenever she could. Wouldn't it be perfect if I could get both of them to agree to polyamory? Man, I would be so happy. Then again, we'd have to lay a pretty solid foundation of communication before anything like that would possibly work. Time to start talking!

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Tonight, P and I sat down. We hadn't scheduled our first "hanging out" time yet, so we started talking about that. Somehow she came out with the question, "Are you polyamorous?" So I asked her why she would bring it up, and if she was polyamorous. She said it was because I was talking about some women that she knew were polyamorous, and was wondering why I was scheduling my dancing around when they would be there. I wasn't aware that they were, but said that I just thought they were awesome people to be around.

Anyways, I told her that I was considering polyamory. She said it was something she couldn't handle. Then I said, "Well, that doesn't mean we can't hang out, right?" She said, "Just as friends." I didn't feel angry or upset. Didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. I knew this was going to happen, and we continued holding hands for a bit, and then went off to dance with other people.

I feel like this was the first step into the world of polyamory for me; I rejected a relationship because it wasn't polyamorous. I could have just given in and compromised what I actually wanted, just for the security of having a relationship - any relationship. But instead I held fast to my values, kept my long-term goal in mind, and took a step in that direction. I'm pretty proud of myself.

Now I just have to find other polyamorous people to start polyamorous relationships with. Not too hard if I just put it out there, considering that the polyamorous movement began here in the Bay Area. It's just a matter of digging them out.

Here we go!

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I've been finding it difficult to incorporate the "terms of endearment" into normal speaking. I've found it's sufficiently outside my comfort zone such that I feel awkward in saying them. As such, I'm sure my awkwardness comes across when I say it, and it might seem creepy or forced. BUT I do think that this is exactly WHY I need to practice this... it needs to become more natural and second-nature to me.

I need to push myself out of my comfort zone and start using these words with people I want to be closer to.

EDIT: "terms of endearment" mentioned earlier as baby, sweetie, sugar, honey, etc...

[TheSnitch Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TheSnitch]

The 5 Love languages is a very useful relationship tool. Whether an intimate relationship, professional relationship or just day to day acquaintances. You can learn a lot about someone by how they compliment and show affection towards you.

The only word of endearment that I've ever really been able to use is Sweetheart. I can't stand "baby" or "babe" - I have a lot of friends who OVER use that and it's quite annoying. I do find that when I get intimate with someone, male or female, I shorten their name; a little nick-name if you will. Intimate, not sexual with men - just to clarify.

I think the "tone" you're talking about is commonly referred to as the 'boyfriend voice" - a subtle deepening in tone, a slower paced rhythm to your speech. I find myself slipping into this now and again even with just friends.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I can't stand "baby" or "babe" - I have a lot of friends who OVER use that and it's quite annoying. I do find that when I get intimate with someone, male or female, I shorten their name; a little nick-name if you will. Intimate, not sexual with men - just to clarify.

I think the "tone" you're talking about is commonly referred to as the 'boyfriend voice" - a subtle deepening in tone, a slower paced rhythm to your speech. I find myself slipping into this now and again even with just friends.

Yeah, I used to not like "baby" or "babe", also because I think it's overused. But recently I've had some women call me this, and it feels really nice; it makes me feel good.

I understand what you mean about being intimate with men. When I get closer with men, there tends to be more banter, making raunchy jokes, lude comments about hot women under our breath... basically like we're trying to be more "gangsta." It's fun.

And now that you mention it, I have realized that I use the "boyfriend voice" with cute girls. My voice gets low, my rate of speech slows down, I get a slight smirk on my face... maybe I'll just keep working on that.

[CaptainJohnson Retired ModeratorSenior MemberPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CaptainJohnson]

The 5 Love languages is a very useful relationship tool. Whether an intimate relationship, professional relationship or just day to day acquaintances. You can learn a lot about someone by how they compliment and show affection towards you.

The only word of endearment that I've ever really been able to use is Sweetheart. I can't stand "baby" or "babe" - I have a lot of friends who OVER use that and it's quite annoying. I do find that when I get intimate with someone, male or female, I shorten their name; a little nick-name if you will. Intimate, not sexual with men - just to clarify.

I think the "tone" you're talking about is commonly referred to as the 'boyfriend voice" - a subtle deepening in tone, a slower paced rhythm to your speech. I find myself slipping into this now and again even with just friends.

That works. The thing is some girls have short names already, or their family members use those short forms. I like my nick names for them to stand apart. I do often say 'babe', or 'hun', but I also make sure I have a special name. A name just for her, that nobody else knows. I text it to her, have it on my phone in replacement of her name, and I call her that special name when I got down on her. The special name should be a clause (a string of words), preferably something a bit dirty.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

I came to a realization today, when thinking about the ideas of:

- Take things for what they are without reading into them; and
- Become aware of what people want and need, and supply that.

P, the East Indian woman from before, who told me that she would not be able to handle my polyamory, seems to be still willing to flirt with me. Even though I know that she won't consider me for a serious relationship, I was happy that she was still willing to give me this kind of attention. It was fun, and we still have a good time together. What's even better is that, now that I know she's attracted to me, I know how I make her feel by flirting with her. And then this thought came into my mind:

"Why do we try to put all of our friendships/relationships into tidy little categories?" Having boxes labeled "friends", "casual sex", "serious committed relationship" and such, only place expectations and boundaries. When expectations are not met, this leads to disappointment. When boundaries are crossed, this leads to awkwardness. But instead, try and create a relationship that is unique to each individual. Let us two figure out exactly what the relationship will be between us.

P likes to flirt with me, and I like to flirt with her. Why not just take what she has to offer, and give her what she wants? Our relationship falls somewhere between the traditional categories of "friends" and "lovers." This way, it's more of a spectrum of different types of relationships, with "just friends" at one extreme, and "passionate, committed lovers" at the other. Let them fall in-between, and take it for what it is; don't try to push it towards one extreme or the other; take what they have to offer, and give them what they want in return.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

Didn't know where to post this, but I needed to get this off of my chest, so here goes!

I've joined a polyamory forum and read some of the posts there. I've learned that polyamory is very similar to monogamy: it is based on respect and communication. There are also many different forms of polyamory, the most typical of which involves a "primary" partner, and then an agreement that any other relationship outside of the primary would be only physical, and not emotional. The instant it starts to become emotional, the other is informed right away.

In this way, I feel starting a polyamorous relationship is much like starting a monogamous relationship, except you inform the other potential primary partner that you are polyamorous in the beginning. This doesn't guarantee that your partner will agree, and if so, then you remain monogamous with them out of respect, or you break it off at that point. Either way, having sex with a third person without the knowledge or consent of everyone else involved, is considered unethical.

[Qarzan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qarzan]

There's this one girl I've been really interested in lately. She's cute, smart, fun to be around, we always have a great time together, and she also seems really open to my advances. She likes holding my hand, snuggling close to me, dancing close... she also giggles a lot when I'm near her. Usually the following day after I see her, I feel like I want to call her, talk to her, just generally be around her. I want to tell her how I feel, but then this incredibly awesome idea pops into my head:

"Don't tell her, show her."

Don't use words, use actions, to display how you feel about her. Get close to her. Flirt. Be fun, and funny. Show her how she makes you feel, and she will figure it out for herself.

[BTBrian Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BTBrian]

This thread was a very interesting read.