"Argument with loved ones, limited critical thinking"

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

Obviously by the title of this thread, we can already see the direction of this particular thread.

I just had an argument with her, but before I get into that, she is just exempt of rational thought and making the best possible decisions. She is just an emotion based person. Aghhh! Seriously, like WTF! I really need to vent but, she is just so fucking stupid. And I am not going to share every stupid scenario that has happened in our life, but I'll share a few that stand out.

She is a good hearted person, but just has horrible thought processing. I will have long discussions while being rational the whole time, I consider myself to be a good critical thinker and can filter most of the bullshit, and she'll agree with me, but then an opposing view pops up and she'll automatically switch her point of view just because it came from a higher authority and/or the message was conveyed in an aesthetically pleasing way that tickled her alluring part of her mind. This is common amongst the general public but damn do I want to help her at times and she gets fucking pissed at me.

You folks can certainly understand that. You want to help somebody that you care about, you have thought of every possible scenario and what will come of their actions, choose the best outcome for them, and with the knowledge that this path will lead to the best outcome and you explaining it to them in excruciating detail with their full attention, and they still deny it. In addition, they get pissed at you, that right there, just makes me really upset.

It's not just my mom though. I've observed this core human mechanic amongst many people throughout my life, and it is just painful man. Like, dude. C'mon. I still have to live with my mom for a little while longer, due to switching majors and have to complete a few more undergrads before going to my graduate program. I've calmed down in writing all this, and am no longer mad, just disappointed because she did tell me, "yes, I agree with you but [CRAP]......"

I know I am "only" 23, but people will associate with my age that I have limited experience and don't fully understand the world enough. Ditto. You being 40, 50, 60, 100 yrs old isn't enough time to fully experience this world and we will never know wall the answers. But what we can have in our arsenal is reasoning, empathy and a bunch of other shit, but you can see where I am going with this. Critical thought will save this world. Being a heavy science fucking nerd, and just paying attention to life and all its problems, I realize logic is invaluable. But yeah, I'll keep ranting on.

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8==========D~~~~~~~

A little immaturity there, s'all good.

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

As for the argument, to put everything in a concise manner, she has been buying fast food for my brothers a lot lately. I am vegan and try to educate my family on how plant based is cheaper and healthier blah blah blah, but that is besides the point. I was trying to get her to understand that this is hurting her funds and it adds up quickly. She spends over a hundred bucks in several days and I was just going over some numbers and showing her that this money could be used for other things especially in emergency scenarios and the benefit for the family.

I am not working too much due to being a full time student, and my is single and supporting three boys. This is one of the easier arguments, and I didn't even entertain it for that long. I left as soon as I saw the rage compiling within her. I came back to just say, "Can we actually discuss this," and she yelled at me to just leave her alone.

It'a like she's a child, but she is paying the bills. I just would like her to have more funds just in case shit happens.

There are more scenarios, and some really personal ones, but I don't need to go down those rabbit holes.

[closed251 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close closed251]

Nearly all people are emotional based. Even the ones that believe they aren't.

Secondly it's a bit rich when living at your mam's and not earning/contributing to bills to then tell her where 'she's' going wrong with her budget.

I would tell her you're sorry and that your concern about the health aspect of the food for your brothers. And leave it at that. I wouldn't bring money into.

[Unit Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Unit]

I understand where you are coming from. I'm a smart enough guy and had the world figured out when I was twenty three too, not so much anymore. I do know myself a whole lot better now then I did then. For an emotionally driven thinker who thinks they are doing the best they can or know how, it can be very hurtful to be shown their are wrong. It also could be a timing thing, even bullet proof logic can not penetrate and mind that doesn't want to hear about it.

While you are in your mother's house and under her care you, must give her due respect. Help when you can and back off if your input is not being well received.

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

I actually regret having posted this thread. Yes, she is an absolute idiot at times, but I am going to an engineer within a few more years. I still love her very much. I just hate it when the people closest to me won't accept the better scenario. It's a fucking conundrum. I have less say and pull because I don't contribute to the bills, yeah.

If a mod gets a look at this thread, please take it down. Or at the very least, change the title to

"Argument with loved ones, limited critical thinking"

Some shit like that. The original title is a little too harsh. Now that I've calmed down.

[Unit Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Unit]

If a mod gets a look at this thread, please take it down. Or at the very least, change the title to

"Argument with loved ones, limited critical thinking"

Some shit like that. The original title is a little too harsh. Now that I've calmed down.

I might be able to change the thread title

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

I might be able to change the thread title

Do you think this thread can be actually taken down. I won't be revisiting this thread.

IDK. It may be good for discussion with others but I kind of understand the mechanic. I guess it just helps to talk about it.in some way. Sigh....... I guess leave it up?

I'm kind of back and forth on it, if it's possible to take it down.

[Tamora Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Aug 2015 PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Tamora]

We don't delete threads unless they're spam and whatnot as a matter of policy. Sorry.

[TheZZMan Moderator Member of the Month Sept 2018PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZMan]

Agreed, the thread stays.

So, you disagree with your mom, yet are still fully dependent on her for at least food and shelter. Would seem appropriate to quell your ground in beliefs and understand that you would be on the streets without this woman. This goes for anyone, but pushing your Vegan lifestyle on anyone who doesn't follow is not cool. You have your beliefs, others have theirs. Neither is right, neither is wrong - but going postal on a non-vegan will never win an argument.

Here is a thought - when you are self sufficient, can support yourself, have a career and some money in the bank. Then speak your peace....In the meantime, if living under someone elses roof, being supported by someone else, then mind your tongue. Disrespectful to bite the hand that feeds you.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Anyone starts with the Vegan cult stuff to me I have stoped listening before the first sentence .

As for take away convenience is the game there not nutrients.

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

Agreed, the tread stays.

So, you disagree with your mom, yet are still fully dependent on her for at least food and shelter. Would seem appropriate to quell your ground in beliefs and understand that you would be on the streets without this woman. This goes for anyone, but pushing your Vegan lifestyle on anyone who doesn't follow is not cool. You have your beliefs, others have theirs. Neither is right, neither is wrong - but going postal on a non-vegan will never win an argument.

You missed the main point. I was more having a discussion about her spending quite a bit of cash and that it's just not helping with the other expenses. And yes, I know I need to be mindful on what I say. I get that. But, if I ran numbers and kept all the receipts, and showed some actual empirical evidence, I am the bad guy.

As for the vegan thing, I used to be the exact opposite. Full on keto carnivore because I believed it was healthy. Took part in a debate and it got my interest. I did my research for more than 4 weeks, completely procrastinating on my assignments because I was just honestly astonished on how wrong society has been doing it for so long. Nutrition, ethics, longevity for the future, and much more. I don't expect most people to get it. It's funny too because I didn't really talk about the veganism at all in my post, but because we tend to be walking entities that make people aware of their bad habits, we have to be outcasted. I used to think that animal products was absolutely necessary, but we actually thrive without them, and if humans really want to optimize the longevity for the planet, this has to be our method for attaining sustenance. I won't get in on this, because with the research I have done, there is not one good reason against veganism. Trust me when I say that. I tried to find one, And because I couldn't, and despite what you may think based on my thread, I want to be an altruistic empathetic human being. I have flaws and some insecurities no doubt, but I do want to make the best decisions possible and have people take the same path because it really isn't opinion based man. The world is getting fucked over for that hamburger, and steak. It was honestly an easy lifestyle change. Because I as well as many other people can just stop, and look at the world.

Here is a thought - when you are self sufficient, can support yourself, have a career and some money in the bank. Then speak your peace....In the meantime, if living under someone elses roof, being supported by someone else, then mind your tongue. Disrespectful to bite the hand that feeds you.

Again, logical fallacy. I do not have my degree yet, and I am not supporting myself yet fully. True, and as much as it pains me to see my mother make poor decisions with her money, because it isn't just wasting it on junk food for my brothers, other shit too, I just have to shut the fuck up because the truth causes her stress.

But yeah, that is an appeal to authority fallacy. I have not ascended to the ranks of adulthood yet, so my advice for a better outcome more for her isn't worth the attention.

This is why I want schools to push for critical thinking classes each year in high school. This world REALLY!!! needs it! We would be in such a better place right now. I can already see the direction this conversation is going to head in.

I love my mom. Anger is a secondary emotion that stems from sadness, fear, or a loss of power.

Because I see a commonality amongst the general public with their fallacious reasoning, and when I try to discuss with them there are better alternatives, I am a horrible individual. It sucks man. All I care about is the truth.

Even if you have been doing "x" for many years, it doesn't make it right. You could have been wrong all along. It's cool, correct it and move on. Don't justify bad habits with time.

And just because the majority is doing something, it doesn't make it right. There are many things in history that supports this very statement. Reminisce for a while, and recollect events that coincide with this.

But, yeah, I just had a discussion with someone on similar issues.

Only thing I can do right now is study. I am gonna get my B.S. in chemical engineering but I know I am not gonna do that long term. I feel like I need to get into politics or some movement because, just ughhhhh............

This is how everybody thinks man, and it's just, man. It bothers me because I care.

[TheZZMan Moderator Member of the Month Sept 2018PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZMan]

This is interesting in the fact that your full knowledge of the doings of the world are based on your not having to be self sufficient. Your thoughts are clear in your mind, but once you start earning a paycheck and having to support yourself, you will see things a little differently. So, it is OK to have the feelings you have now. When 20% of your paycheck goes to taxes and 10% of everything you by goes to sales taxes and god knows how much you lose when you take into account property taxes, gas taxes, etc. You will realize that you are supporting multiple people whether you want to or not. California is a very expensive place to live. Once you break the bond with mom and go out on your own, you will have a great awakening. Study, do well for your education and you will thank yourself in the long run. Will be plenty of time to gripe about society later. Right now, you need to concentrate on your grades, and education.

As far as the Vegan thing... Appreciate your passion....but know that you are not going to change the world by yourself. Eat as healthy as you deem appropriate, but you will change few minds scolding others. I practice a very balanced diet that is not vegan, but includes a starch, vegetable and protein with every meal. Fast food is only a very rare luxury and more for my kids than for me. I eat one meal a day and that meal has to be as nutritious as possible. Understand that we are of like minds, just take a different path to get there. Animal protein is not the scourge of the earth that you believe, Most mammals in the wild are carnivorous, it is humans that balance that with plant life as part of their intake. People like my family know how to balance. Maybe telling your mom the importance of adding more vegetables to her diet would be more productive than thrashing her for eating meat. Perhaps you can make her a yummy vegan recipe or two to guide her along the way. Compromise is always better than dictating.

[GoodLookingNerd Member Find all posts View Profile Close GoodLookingNerd]

Yeah man, I know. Then I will just focus all the attention on me, then the next college student who is learning about the world will be repeating everything I am saying.

Again, the discussion was more focused on her spending money on things she shouldn't more for her benefit, but it's all good. She isn't buying meat anymore. She has at least made a switch to vegetarianism but...... Yeah. I have to do physics homework. I have conversations like this all the time, but it seems to be futile in the end, because we just return to the rut and take part in the things that give us pleasure.

I just have to centralize my efforts on studying right now. I procrastinate with things like this all the time.

But, it's something that matters is the reason that draws me back.

[TheZZMan Moderator Member of the Month Sept 2018PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZMan]

Yes, concentrate on your studies. It is a gift of an opportunity that you don't want to forsake. The petty discussions about diet have nothing to do with your studies and which is your main focus.

Don't be so judgemental on people for what they do, everyone is their own self. You will go mad if you try to change everybody's minds on principles you believe in. All you can do it state your point of view and move on. If you want a taste of how deep routed things are, read some of the political threads here on the Gym. Neither side will budge on their beliefs. So worry not what others think, believe what you think and live true to those beliefs. Satisfaction comes from within and a self worth, not what others think and your disdain for their thinking. This brings peace among those who have opposing opinions.

[TheZZWoman Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZWoman]

It's nice that you know how to better spend her money. You keep saying she's stupid and not logical and yet is she happy? It's her money...She earned it and she can spend it how she feels. Taking your brother out for fast food probably makes her happy, she gets to spend time with him and connect with someone that appreciates the token of love. Maybe if you weren't living there she might have the extra money laying around for a rainy day and then you can both be happy. When you earn your own money, you can save it all for a rainy day if you wish and what's nice is it's no body's business what you do with your hard earned money as long as it's not illegal. Maybe you should concentrate on completing your education and becoming self sufficient and let her decide what makes her happy. After all she's earned that much raising you and your brothers on her own. You should be more concerned with "Is my mother happy" and "how can I make her life a little easier" than making her miserable with your disrespectful attitude and rude comments. After all she's was smart enough to get you into college! Now go apologize and give her a hug.