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[TheZZMan Moderator Member of the Month Sept 2018PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZMan]

See ZZ you still have those rose tinted Trump sunglass's on, Trump was OK in his own backyard, look what he's doping now upsetting more of his allies, all because he wants you all to own not just one guns but lots more and the rest of the world it would seem, you must love him to keep supporting him doing this to your country, not really the way to get a piece prize they say he will get, I don't think so, and not forgetting how Trump wanted to nuke North Korea, again I don't think so.


ZZ throw away those glass's there clouding your life.

NOWHARD

My friend, the only rose colored glasses are warn by you. You see things as you may, but it has more bearing on what is actually going on in the US. So, from half way around the globe, you are an expert. Yep, as I said. Read more into what you are talking about and maybe we can have a conversation someday.

[TheZZMan Moderator Member of the Month Sept 2018PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZMan]

Sooooo much irony.



And you don't get your information from "media"? You seem to think that getting information from any source is a bad thing when it comes to "the media", and in the past have asked me where I got my info, to which I say it doesn't matter, but it oddly matters to you. So where do you get your information from? If you think "the media" is so bad then how are you getting your info? Believe it or not Fox News, Breitbart, Dailymail, and other sites/publications, that I assume you use, would be media. Doesn't matter if you agree with them it's still media. So where do you get it if you can't get it from t.v., radio, paper, and internet? Those are all media. I'd love to hear your answer on this, because if you get it from any of those you can't hate "the media" since you use it.

The stuff you get your facts from, true or false, are media. So by your own logic the things you agree with, where you most likely get your information, can't be trusted as they are media.

That would be rather hypocritical if you did.



You seem to do the same thing. Difference being I'm showing my sources, you and Cusp on the otherhand, have done no such thing. You want the other side to be known then show your sources. It's as simple as that. You show your sources and then we'll talk about "the other side". You've yet to do that, so how can I trust info from you when you have nothing to back it up? Why should I trust your claims at face value?

Again, it doesn't matter who says any information as long as it's right. So far I'm the only one here backing up my claims, when you and Cusp can't do basic references, sourcing, or linking of what you claim. You couldn't pass a college history course without using those, why do you think you don't have to here? If I make a claim I make sure to back it up. You do not. If you want to be taken seriously and have a discussion you have to do the same.



Doubling down on the irony, and hypocritical to boot.



Thrice the irony. Thrice is nice, I suppose.



Do you now? Because so far you have yet to put an argument on any specific source I used nor put up any of your own sources as a rebuttal. Try starting there and maybe I'll consider your "reading the same things" claim to be true.



Oh no, another lame insult by someone that couldn't go back a page. Whatever will I do?

If you want to look at policy you have to bring up sources to your claims that what he's doing has improved things. You have to show your sources that the policies he has worked on has been a good thing. You have to show them if you want others to believe you, because no one is going to believe a claim with no source, that's how things work.

Let's take for example Trump claiming vaccines cause autism. He said that on the campaign trail, making that part of his policy? Do you have your sources that it's true? Do you have a source that says Trump is right? Are any of these sources not from the quack of a doctor that started it? Do you agree?

Let's take for example the wall. The current fence is 700 miles long. Do you know the kind of issues it had being built? How many people died putting it up? The amount of land the some properties and businesses are split by? A 700 mile long fence took $6 billion to put up. Now I'm not saying something like is or is not a good thing, as long as it does its job, but are issues with it, and to ignore them is asinine. Now let's go to Trump's wall. This wall in which we still don't how long it will be, with its length changing for the last two years, but we also don't know how tall it will be, with what materials, or anything else that will be on it (Trump himself even threw out the idea of the wall being covered in solar panels).

Now let's take this further with the wall. Taking the $6 billion figure above for the fence, tripling that to cover the entire border would take near $20 billion. Figures for Trump's wall has been 30-40 feet tall, and we don't know the width so let's say 10 feet. Now a 30ft. x 10ft. x 10ft. (as Trump tossed out 30 feet tall quite often on the campaign trail) section wall of concrete (taking a simple material) we can start gauging price on a simple scale of 3,000 cubic feet (1,000 cubic yards) per section. Now based on this site here, concrete costs $108 per cubic yard. So now we have the price of each section at 1,000 cubic yard x $108, and that comes to, and since you won't use sources I assume you won't do the math so I'll do it, $108,000.00 per section.

Now the border is just shy of 2,000 miles and that equates to 10,560,000 feet (or 3,520,000 yards). So 10,560,000 feet divided each 10 foot wide section we have, 1,056,000 sections. With the price of $108k per section and over 1 million sections we have a price of $114,048,000,000.00. So over $114 BILLION at the cheapest just for concrete alone, and that's only if nothing goes wrong and if the wall isn't taller. So right now we're at $114 billion for the cost, and that's if it's just concrete above the ground, not even below it. If another material is used that's more expensive it will only increase costs.

Then you have to account for digging out the ground, subbase, reinforcement, which might add to an even taller wall when it's underground, only adding to it, workers (and their insurance/lawsuits that might come from it), insurance for workers, machinery, maintenance while still being built, fixing mistakes during construction, and acquiring the land to do so. All of that is just to get it built, and I can't even begin to do that math on much of that as I'm not familiar with construction on the scale.

Then we have to account for acquiring the land and all the entails from buying it, to possibly being unable to and needing to go around (only adding to length), the environmental issues of building on certain parts of the land (again possibly adding to length if certain section can't be built on or more must be built to secure it further) and what it might destroy, the lawsuits from those (both private citizens and companies) trying to keep their land from eminent domain (and we both know Trump would use it) adding to the time it would take to build and costing even more.

Add on top of it still the extras for the wall, like areas for government employees and security to be at (offices), border entrances/exits so people can go through the border, posts for security to be at in small groups, electricity, most likely some form of internet, water access, phone lines, vehicle storage, potentially armory (?), and sewage or septic tanks. Then inside offices, border exits/entrances, we have the usual office supply needs.

Finally, once it's all built we then have increased security/employees, including upper levels of management/security, which will need to be increased, maintenance (in many forms) to keep it safe and standing with constant repairs, the maintenance on all utilities, insurance for employees/security, training for employees/security, so many different forms of legal mumbo jumbo I can't comprehend, and every other thing that any business needs for employees.

It's not that the wall is predicated on racism, or some false sense of "Dey tuk ur jerbs!!!", nor is it that it's an insanely inefficient use of money, but because. It. Isn't. Feasible. The logistics for such a thing are beyond astronomical. Then of course you have to include the price as to why it shouldn't be built. Upkeep and work alone is through the roof of even the tallest of buildings, many times over.

So there. There's a discussion just for you about the wall, using no media to discuss it. If you have an issue with that then that's on you. I have now jumped through every one of your hoops, and for a fucking fat ass like me that's hard to do, so maybe it's about time you do the same, but I'm sure you won't.



What amazes me is they they believe Trump to be an outsider. That he was against the "Hollywood elite" and other "elite", that he wasn't a politician and a successful business man. In reality though Trump is part of that "Hollywood elite", seeing as he gets checks from SAG (Screen Actors Guild), has had television shows, rubbed elbows with the Clintons at one point in time, is real estate mogul, and that as soon as you run for office you are considered a politician (going by proper definition, so ZZ you better not complain about "media").

Trump isn't the simple man that they think. He didn't start from nothing, his dad gave him millions, and Trump even stole some from his father. He has a history of using the normal working man, illegal immigrants, and being the "elite". Hell, Trump even owns some "media", which means by his supporters logic that Trump owned media can't be trusted.

He's literally everything his supporters say they hate. There's not one real thing about Trump, he's only in this for his own ego and no one else.

In all honesty Donnie, I have stopped reading your rants. You can go on and on spewing your side, but in all honesty, it will never sway me. Save yourself some effort while you explore the other side, if you dare and have the courage. Or, believe what you will, go from menial job to menial job and blame it all on trump. How convenient. We always hope the best for you, but your mindset needs adjusting, whether you believe it or not. I hope that someday, you will return and thank Cusp and ZZ for the direction. In the meantime, rant, start riots go overboard and feel offended, You fit right in with a lot of folks out there. Try living life, and not worrying about politics. Find a girl and be happy. Relatively easy. Or swail in your own self pity and blame everything on the "man" who happens to be trump. You have a lot of pent up emotion that is not warranted. I can only point this out to you, you need to step back an realize how others perceive you. Its a learning process, so continue to rant if it makes you feel better, but all you are doing is blowing smoke into the wind. Step back, look at yourself and reflect- are you where you want to be? It is not trumps fault.

[Pirate Retired AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Pirate]

These are the longest posts that I have seen in a very long time!

[Jay1983 Senior MemberMember of the Month Apr 2014, Sept 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close Jay1983]

I don't care about the walls that Trump paid to knock down. I care about the walls that he's gonna pay to build up.

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

In all honesty Donnie, I have stopped reading your rants.

You know it just goes to show the kind of person you are. You realize part of that was an actual mathematical discussion about the wall itself, right? Goes to show you don't look up the other side, making you a giant hypocrite. If you can't even bother to read or listen to the other person in a discussion then don't be part of it. You don't like my posts then ignore them and stop bitching.

You can go on and on spewing your side, but in all honesty, it will never sway me.

Because you don't read it.

Save yourself some effort while you explore the other side, if you dare and have the courage.

You know what would be nice to understand the other side? Sources. A shame you don't seem capable of doing that. I don't know why you're incapable of doing that, but that's on you I guess.

Or, believe what you will, go from menial job to menial job and blame it all on trump.

.....What? When have I blamed Trump for me having a shitty job? Stop lying. You know who's fault it is for me having a shitty job? Mine! All mine! Because I'm a piece shit, and I don't even deserve a shitty job at the best of times, because I made stupid fucking mistakes and made my life like this. Not fucking Trump. Stop thinking he's involved with everything.

How convenient. We always hope the best for you, but your mindset needs adjusting, whether you believe it or not.

What does that have to do with Trump, stop with these personal attacks.

I hope that someday, you will return and thank Cusp and ZZ for the direction.

I have thanked Cusp in the past, although what you've done for me I can't say. Also, did you refer to yourself in the third person?

In the meantime, rant, start riots go overboard and feel offended, You fit right in with a lot of folks out there.

What "folks"? Who? Stop playing the pronoun game.

Try living life, and not worrying about politics.

Apparently having a discussion is now "worrying". The fuck is wrong with you? Seriously.

Find a girl and be happy. Relatively easy.

Alright, now you are definitely lying. You think women would date me? Wow, you must be drunk and high right now.

blame everything on the "man" who happens to be trump.

Again, what? I don't blame Trump for everything. In fact it's you worshipers that thank him for everything, when in reality he's just retarded old man.

You have a lot of pent up emotion that is not warranted.

Uh....okay? I have my emotions on each individual thing that range and vary. It's not all the same emotion to everything, but again you have to lie some more. Seriously, what's with that?

I can only point this out to you, you need to step back an realize how others perceive you.

I know how people perceive me. They like me for some unknown reason, but that's their fault. I keep telling them it's wrong and they don't believe me, not my fault they don't listen. And again, what's this have to do with Trump? Nothing? Just more random deflection? Got it.

I know exactly who I am. Every fault and the few good things. I'm a piece of garbage and it's people like you that love to lie and make others think of themselves as something else. I am a waste of space and a piece of shit. I deserve nothing more than being hit by a truck and killed on impact, nothing more nothing less. I'm not special. No one is.

Its a learning process, so continue to rant if it makes you feel better, but all you are doing is blowing smoke into the wind. Step back, look at yourself and reflect- are you where you want to be? It is not trumps fault.

Jesus Christ.....you understand my feelings on other things have nothing to do with Trump, right? My feelings on Trump have to do with Trump, and nothing else. It's not that hard of a concept, that topics are separate from others. Stop thinking that Trump rules the universe already. Speaking of getting a life, perhaps you should step away from your shrine to him and get one of your own.

As for where I am in life I'm exactly where I should be, in that I have no life and never will. The fact you think I'll succeed in any way is you being delusional. Not everyone is special and not everyone succeeds. Stop thinking just because you have stuff means someone else can too.

People are genuinely terrible and I've learned that from people such as yourself. You look down on others just because you have some success. You think they need to be just like yourself else they are garbage, and looking at how you treat others that disagree with you I'm right. All people like you do is look for a way to use others. I definitely don't want a life like yours where you're awful to others just because of a disagreement.

This is what happens when you grow up a liberal like yourself, you think everything is sunshine and happiness, when in reality it fucking isn't. People are bastards. Bastard covered bastards with bastard filling. Stop thinking everyone vomits rainbows.

These are the longest posts that I have seen in a very long time!

When there's a lot of bullshit to sort through they tend to get long.

I don't care about the walls that Trump paid to knock down. I care about the walls that he's gonna pay to build up.

Not based on that omnibus he signed, making it so it won't happen. He literally had the power to make it happen and he chose not to, lying to everyone that voted for him.

[Pirate Retired AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Pirate]

People on this thread are getting a bit worked up.
I am closing and have not decided whether to make that closure temporary or permanent.
If you have a strong feeling one way or another, send me a P.M.
Yarrr.