Player Haters

[NP97 Retired ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close NP97]

See, I don't go to clubs because I hate seeing the meatheads trying to hit on my girl.
Happens every time.

Anyway, I'm not for seducing women. I'm for falling in love and being happy with them.
Y'all have your fun.

[pterodactyl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pterodactyl]

I feel the same NP. Thats why i choose to stay away from that type of atmosphere. I love some sex and a one night stand can be great but i never used a plan or a line and most of the girls i have slept with are still friends to this day.

[HotRod Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotRod]

I just feel this type of "game" feeds on non-genuine and shallow relationships that don't last.

It depends what we're talking about. I'm getting the feeling that I'm talking about something different than what some guys here are talking about. I'm into taking a proactive approach to meeting women I want to meet. I don't have shallow relationships. And I don't believe that relationships that last, and last, and last are necessarily better or deeper than ones that have integrity from the beginning.

I don't see why people just can't be real and true to themselves and with each other.

That's the whole point of the ideas I'm interested in. It's about bringing that real and true nature to the fore. We live in a world that doesn't exactly invite that out.

I take more issue with people who actually study it and then abandon their natural persona in exchange for BS.

Everything I'm into is about letting your natural persona shine. Most people you meet actually have abandoned their natural persona in order to "fit in" or not do anything somebody might disagree with. That's BS.

[HotRod Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotRod]

See, I don't go to clubs because I hate seeing the meatheads trying to hit on my girl.
Happens every time.

Anyway, I'm not for seducing women. I'm for falling in love and being happy with them.
Y'all have your fun.

If you have a girlfriend, you seduced her.

[HotRod Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotRod]

HotRod, PUA is like anything in life, it can be very good for a lot of guys, or it can be twisted and can become something very manipulative and dirty. I think essentially you're saying the same thing. I agree that PUA can be a great thing for a lot of guys, b/c most guys don't truly understand how social interactions with women work.

It's funny you mention Tyler Durden b/c I'm actually watching his DVDs as we speak. One thing he talks about is how social conditioning impacts how we pick up girls. If you watch a romantic comedy, the hero is usually some sappy guy who spills his guts to the girl of his dreams and gets the girl. There's no chance in hell any of the stuff you see in romantic comedies would ever work for the average Joe. The fact is, a great deal of this stuff is very counter-intuitive. For example, if you're interested in a girl, you can't make it LOOK like you're interested. On the surface, that doesn't make sense, but when you understand social dynamics it all becomes more clear.

Yep. I really like Tyler...even though he can be a little over the top sometimes.

I think a lot of guys get the idea that they have to show up from the beginning proving what a romantic he is with flowers and pledging love...ever hear that Meatloaf song "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"? Guys either creep girls out, or they step right into a situation with somebody they really don't want to be with.

[Rando Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rando]

Sounds like a lot of people almost instantly associate anything about the PUA community with all the cheesy pickup lines and fake routines you hear about. Yes, if that's what you're looking for, then you can certainly find a lot of material about that sort of thing. Personally, I'd feel like an idiot and dishonest if I had to resort to that stuff to get a girl. I focus on mainly the stuff that makes me a better person (not a more deceptive person) and the stuff that helps me understand social dynamics more. Sometimes I will read gimmicks and routines and I will just immediately dismiss them as if I never read them. So I would say that PUA used in this way can be a very positive thing.

For the guys that say PUA inherently develops less healthy relationships, I think that is hogwash. OK, it might be true for the guys purely looking for notches on a bedpost and using the gimmicks, but they don't really care about relationships. What I think PUA does, is give a guy OPTIONS. I've been on both sides of the coin, the nice guy who could maybe find 1 or 2 girls to date a year, and the more confident guy who understands social dynamics and sometimes goes on 7-8 dates a month. Now, do you think I'm gonna find a more compatible girl which would likely lead to a better and stronger marriage now when I have tons of options or before when I was barely meeting any women? Admittedly, my goal isn't really marriage unless a great girl comes along, but I think I have that luxury now that I'm more confident in meeting lots of women. I think a lot of guys, and maybe I might have eventually done this, are so bad at meeting women that they're willing to settle for the first or 2nd woman that shows them any interest b/c they're wondering if they'll ever be able to find another. THAT to me is the reason for your high divorce rate. Men and women are more willing to SETTLE when they perceive themselves as having lower value and less options. I think it's healthier for men and women to be meeting lots of potential partners so you can truly find one you are compatible with and not settling for. If you want to make a dent in the divorce rate, then start teaching this social dynamics stuff to 5th graders.

BTW, I don't mean to offend anyone in here in a LTR b/c not every relationship is like I described above, however, some are. I have 2 close friends who are solid guys, but terrible with women. 1 of them almost never dates or even really interacts with women, the other is lucky to get 2 dates a year. Do you think either of these guys stand much of a chance of a healthy long-term marriage? They might luck out, but I'm worried that they'll settle for the first controlling bitch that gives them the time of day and either eventually divorce or be miserable for most of their lives. It's those guys who could really benefit from the healthier aspects of PUA so they can gain the ability to date more women and find one that is right for them.

[TheSperminator Member of the Month Oct 12 Find all posts View Profile Close TheSperminator]

@ hamna

First of all, women don't put on make-up just because other women do it .. They do it to compete, stand out .. In some tribes women put on blood on their lips just to make them more sexy .. and than there was lipstick .. Ofcourse we are superficial, when we look at someone we always have a first thought about the person, what would he be like? I don't know him but he looks like a banker. that is superficial, it's just one example.

Everybody wants to have muscles, look hot, be the richest .. I don't see why this is a bad thing, it keeps us improving, we get older, we get smarter, we get more evolved.

In fact, you are the one who is superficial. Giving up hope on all women because there are some sluts in the world yes who's life goal is to fuck a thousand men .. Society isn't perfect.

+ I can tell you were a loner and I think you are the person who also isn't fully satisfied with himself. I go to the gym, yes, for my health. I go out and drink, yes, because I want to have a good time and enjoy life with the persons I love. NOT BECAUSE SOCIETY TELLS ME TO DO. I just want to have a good time, in a social place with lots of people. Or increase my health, there were it's best to improve my health (the gym). I have already planned my route for the next 10 years. The problem is nobody knows what their purpose is in life untill they start to see it after awhile, you dig as deep and as much as you want in your mind, you won't find it.. Be your best self and keep improving, I want it, not because society tells me too. I want to become the best I can be. I love challenges. So I also love women



grtz

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

RANDO - Great posts. You said everything that I have been trying to express and could not. Nicely worded.

[Hanma Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hanma]

@ hamna

First of all, women don't put on make-up just because other women do it .. They do it to compete, stand out .. In some tribes women put on blood on their lips just to make them more sexy .. and than there was lipstick .. Ofcourse we are superficial, when we look at someone we always have a first thought about the person, what would he be like? I don't know him but he looks like a banker. that is superficial, it's just one example.

I just said that. To compete. To stand out. With other women. From other women.A lot of them know that most men don't give a damn about their nail polish or shoes or they chemicals they put on their faces. It's what they read in the magazines that gets to them. Other women having it better - looks, clothes, make up, tan, whatever it is. Obsessing over such petty things ... none of those magazines tell them how to develop their inner selves and cultivate their minds, do they?

Everybody wants to have muscles, look hot, be the richest .. I don't see why this is a bad thing, it keeps us improving, we get older, we get smarter, we get more evolved.

It's not a bad thing. It's the intentions. Of course all of the men will say "Oh it's for health, doing it for me", but how many of them would have been happy with themselves in the first place? In my school, most boys crowded the school gym. Do you think it was for health or was it hive mentality? It's like this in every school. It stays with them when they get older. I wonder how many of them are doing things that are genuinely their interests and not doing it to make themselves look good to other people.

In fact, you are the one who is superficial. Giving up hope on all women because there are some sluts in the world yes who's life goal is to fuck a thousand men .. Society isn't perfect.

I said my interest have dropped in MOST of them significantly. Due to my own experiences, and helping my friends through similar ones.

+ I can tell you were a loner and I think you are the person who also isn't fully satisfied with himself.

Yep, being that in the teenage phase, trying to read books, finding new stuff in the corner of the library, branding myself as a loner, didn't give a damn then, not giving a damn now.

I go to the gym, yes, for my health. I go out and drink, yes, because I want to have a good time and enjoy life with the persons I love. NOT BECAUSE SOCIETY TELLS ME TO DO. I just want to have a good time, in a social place with lots of people. Or increase my health, there were it's best to improve my health (the gym). I have already planned my route for the next 10 years.

Good for you.

The problem is nobody knows what their purpose is in life untill they start to see it after awhile, you dig as deep and as much as you want in your mind, you won't find it.. Be your best self and keep improving, I want it, not because society tells me too.

What? You can see it as early as in your childhood if you really question things. You can dig deep and you will find it. It's not some impossible mystic challenge. it does take time and effort but to say that you won't find it, then why are we existing and living in the first place?
We're in a web which is stronger than you think and spans wider than just society. And we're stuck. And not listening to society won't get us off this web.

I want to become the best I can be. I love challenges. So I also love women

You make women sound like some secrets of the universe. They're not.

I want to unlock secrets of science and the universe which takes effort, knowledge and skill. Not unlocking a pair of pants which has been unlocked by a dozen guys before already.

And, male sexuality is also as complex but how much do we know about this? Hell how much do WOMEN bother to learn about the male behaviours, patterns and physiology? Do they have PUA books for ladies to pick up men? Why the bias?

Read this book and tell me you haven't been blinded by society or something.

Male Sexuality: Why Women Don't Understand It-And Men Don't Either
Rowman & Littlefield Publishers
2010

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

I find it gross how you talk about women like the only reason you'd be around them is to get in their pants. :/

I also find it a little contradictory how you call upon people to search inside themselves for some higher meaning in life, almost as though you were enlightened yourself, but you can't talk about people without a strong vibe of contempt. I'm really getting the sense that you are placing yourself higher than the average person.
But at the same time, you don't speak highly of yourself.
You have this really depressing view that the world is shit, its people are shit and their values are shit.

You talk about how we are conforming to some form of lifestyle because we've been told to. I think that's throwing a large group of people into one bucket and and covering them with a blanket-statement because it's easier for you to understand. You may as well think we're all from the Jersey Shore.
But there is more complexity to the average person. How would you know otherwise, Hanma? You're a loner. You don't spend time around a lot of people.

Brainstick just told you he has a ten year plan for himself. Your response? "Good for you." Like you seriously don't care. He just said that he HAS in fact thought about his life and his future, his meaning and his purpose and is actively pursuing reaching those goals.
But you have already typecast him and that's that for you. You've done the same with the rest of the world. "Conformists, weak willed, immature." As though you were so much better, as though the time you have spent isolated has made you a better person.

Going to the gym makes people feel good. So, a bunch of teenage boys, pumped up full of testosterone, go there to pump some iron are following a hive mentality. It's not because it's good for anxiety (which school causes... and would thus be healthy). It's not to find belonging or a social circle (which is an aspect of a healthy life). It's not because it makes them feel good. What if they genuinely enjoyed the atmosphere?
So what if someone wants to impress another girl with a good physique.
That's life. I want to impress my employer with good work ethic and jobs well done. I want to impress my friends with my knowledge, my abilities and my confidence. I want to impress my parents with all of these things. But suddenly I'm a lesser person for wanting to impress a girl?

I wonder if you look down on certain types of birds, too. Some birds do random stuff to impress females. Some birds lek, where they will show a piece of land that has no resource value to them, simply for a competitive edge to win a female. (I'm simplifying it).
Peacocks brandish very colourful displays with their tales to attract a mate.
Another kind of bird searches far and wide to find shiny objects to decorate its nest with... just because it attracts females.
I guess you look down on these animals too? Personally, I find it fascinating the things that animals do to win the favour of another.
Humans are no different. Exercising shows that we have a lot of available energy and stamina. It shows fertility. It is physically appealing because it speaks to her inner animal.
You're saying we should look down on this and stop being sexual?
I say you're wrong. We're sexual beings. We'd be going against our programming... Talk about your nonconformity.

It's good you want to unlock the secrets of the universe with science and all that jazz. But I'm pretty sure that Brainstick has more interests than women. I'm pretty sure that women wouldn't want a guy who had no interests... thus making him un-interesting.
We all have lives outside of game. Women is just one aspect of the dynamic individual. I think Brainstick is into business, or finance? I read that in one of his other threads. He has goals. He has ambitions. It'd be ridiculous to think women are the be-all and end-all to his life, or any PUA.
That would be seriously creepy.

[Hanma Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hanma]

Here we go. Let me start off by saying that I do not hate that easily. It's rare for me to hate. At worst I'd be furious and rant about it, but most of the time I take things with a grain of salt. Or was it pinch. I don't know, I'm a bad cook.At the very least it's indifference. I tend to think about things. Analysing them, wondering of their origins, things like that. There are a few things that bother me, and this thread isn't high on that list.

I find it gross how you talk about women like the only reason you'd be around them is to get in their pants. :/

No. I just said I'm not interested in them in that manner any more, and I reckon it will be this way for a few more years. Not unless they start to mature up rather than realising it in their 30's. Yeah I am aware this is generalising everyone, but take everything I say with some salt (screw those grain / pinch units). Of course there will be exceptions to the females, who don't play games and learn early. But why does it have to be a few of them? Why not a vast majority? Just because I prefer being alone doesn't mean I don't notice people and their behaviours. I was quick to judge before, when I was younger, but I have moved on from that after I realised that judging so quickly isn't correct. However, what I have said in my thread, are the things that I have noticed still, without being quick to judge, over the past 10 years of my life.

I also find it a little contradictory how you call upon people to search inside themselves for some higher meaning in life, almost as though you were enlightened yourself, but you can't talk about people without a strong vibe of contempt. I'm really getting the sense that you are placing yourself higher than the average person.But at the same time, you don't speak highly of yourself.

Of course I am not enlightened, but it doesn't hurt to spread this message - cultivate your inner selves, you are much more than the meat and bones you are, you go much further than your biological set up and limits. I don't have to be enlightened to realise this and spread this. And you're incorrect in your judgement - that I hold myself higher than others. No. I observe from a distance. That's all. I have no stake in the outcome. And I don't want to speak highly of myself, I don't have many great points that people would appreciate.

You have this really depressing view that the world is shit, its people are shit and their values are shit.

The world's fine. The world's great! The world is ancient and mysterious, it's powerful and it's dynamic. It's the people that are screwed. Believe it or not, my mother is the most positive influence on my life and I am taking her positivity with her guidance. She's fixed me in a sense. There's two sides of a coin. Think of me as a coin.

You talk about how we are conforming to some form of lifestyle because we've been told to. I think that's throwing a large group of people into one bucket and and covering them with a blanket-statement because it's easier for you to understand. You may as well think we're all from the Jersey Shore. But there is more complexity to the average person. How would you know otherwise, Hanma?

A follower of Nietzsche would know that the 'Ubermensch' is free precisely because if he or she was faced with the possibility of repeating their life, over and over for eternity, they wouldn't change a single thing.We create our own meaning in our life. This doesn't mean that we have to be in constant revolution- the ubermensch transcends the limitations of the duality of constant revolution vs. the status quo.
You can say that: It is open to you to follow your happiness and believe in something that actually brings you deep fulfilment. You are a human and you can weight whatever evidence you wish in whatever manner you like and so believe in whatever you wish. I've never understood this assertion. I recognize that part of what makes us human is the ability to make some changes in our thinking, but the idea that we can "weigh whatever evidence you wish in whatever manner you like and so believe in whatever you wish" seems absurd to me.
Does anyone really think they could just choose to spend the weekend believing they live on Jupiter?
At best, one can pretend to fool oneself, but eventually reality will bite. I find rigid self-honesty to be a better recipe for happiness in the long run, if not always in the short term.

You're a loner. You don't spend time around a lot of people.

I am a loner, yeah, but you make it look like a bad thing. i am used to it. I have been like this for a long time. And yes I do spend time with people when I want to. I can be happy spending time at home, or outside with nobody with me. People like me exist, and this choice isn't something to worry about or anything. It's not sad. I can still learn about people. I don't shut myself in a corner.

Brainstick just told you he has a ten year plan for himself. Your response? "Good for you." Like you seriously don't care. He just said that he HAS in fact thought about his life and his future, his meaning and his purpose and is actively pursuing reaching those goals.

Yeah, and? Everyone has plans. He has plans for 10 years. Good for him. if he got married to someone I'd be amazed and be happy for him. Do you get what I am saying?

But you have already typecast him and that's that for you. You've done the same with the rest of the world. "Conformists, weak willed, immature." As though you were so much better, as though the time you have spent isolated has made you a better person.

The last time I checked I suggested that about Wall Street occupiers. And it wasn't even the way you said.

Going to the gym makes people feel good. So, a bunch of teenage boys, pumped up full of testosterone, go there to pump some iron are following a hive mentality. It's not because it's good for anxiety (which school causes... and would thus be healthy). It's not to find belonging or a social circle (which is an aspect of a healthy life). It's not because it makes them feel good. What if they genuinely enjoyed the atmosphere?

Good for them.

So what if someone wants to impress another girl with a good physique.

Let them. Don't get so excited. Relax. Like I said, there will always be exceptions. I am questioning their motives. And if they are true to themselves. That's mainly it. Here's a huge meal for thought: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars - The Lawful Path

That's life. I want to impress my employer with good work ethic and jobs well done. I want to impress my friends with my knowledge, my abilities and my confidence. I want to impress my parents with all of these things. But suddenly I'm a lesser person for wanting to impress a girl?

Go for it. I don't care. I don't even care when older people do this stuff. Like I said before, at the least it's indifference, at the most it's a furious rant. Even that's uncommon. What ticks me off is how we have to make money out of everything. Hallmark owns Valentines now, movies and music tell us what love is like (How TV Ruined Your Life - s01e04 - Love - YouTube) and now how impress girls and get laid is a multi-million dollar industry. I don't know. It leaves a frown on my face. I'd rather read "How to win friends and influence people" again.

Humans are no different. Exercising shows that we have a lot of available energy and stamina. It shows fertility. It is physically appealing because it speaks to her inner animal.

I still display my indifference. I wonder which animal dances to that beat. At least animals have to survive in the wild and make it out alive for as long as they can. No mating books, no networking websites to moan about their bf's of one month, no novels, nothing. What we have is a somewhat broken system on what to do with our animal side.

You're saying we should look down on this and stop being sexual? I say you're wrong. We're sexual beings. We'd be going against our programming... Talk about your nonconformity.

Nope. I say quit holding sex in such a high position. Get it out of your way. It's just sex, it doesn't even hold that much importance (to me anyway.)

It's good you want to unlock the secrets of the universe with science and all that jazz. But I'm pretty sure that Brainstick has more interests than women. I'm pretty sure that women wouldn't want a guy who had no interests... thus making him un-interesting.

I don't care about what they think they find attractive in me. I'm not going to change my interests. I am a bit twisted in the head and I intend to keep it that way. But that's just one side of me. I have pretty good hands for a guy. Good skin, not many wrinkles, clean and smooth nails. Not much hair unlike what you would expect. Yet I've been told that women like manly, calloused, fighter type hands over their soft womany skin. Fuck that! I'm not going to go and punch a rock because of that. I like my hands and I'll take care of them regardless of what I do.

We all have lives outside of game. Women is just one aspect of the dynamic individual. I think Brainstick is into business, or finance? I read that in one of his other threads. He has goals. He has ambitions.

Good for him.

[TheSperminator Member of the Month Oct 12 Find all posts View Profile Close TheSperminator]

I go out of this discussion, it's pointless. Hanma you always say something extreme, we clearify things and than you start finding things to cover up the first things you said.

+ women love soft hands, they absolutely don't want fighter hands. Do you really think women want fingers in her pussy that have uncut/dirty nails? ..

This was my last post on this topic. Sex IS important for some people, not for you clearly. Too me, you are just frustrated you've never had women or many friends.. And that's not a personal attack, it's just MY observation.. Yes, I also observate.

grtz

[HotRod Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotRod]

@Hanma and Toadstool: Get a room!

I'm sorry I tried to contribute anything to this thread. I don't want to be associated with it in any way.

[Hockey_NY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hockey_NY]

@Hanma and Toadstool: Get a room!

I'm sorry I tried to contribute anything to this thread. I don't want to be associated with it in any way.

We can always end the thread with some Biggie in honor of the topic at hand...

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

@Hanma and Toadstool: Get a room!

I'm sorry I tried to contribute anything to this thread. I don't want to be associated with it in any way.

Hey hey, I'm trying to pick him up. Don't start cockblocking me.

+ women love soft hands, they absolutely don't want fighter hands. Do you really think women want fingers in her pussy that have uncut/dirty nails? ..

I think women will love whatever you have to offer them. Your hands *REALLY* don't fucking matter on any level. If you can make her feel you, if you can touch her emotions... You'll be the hottest thing ever.
Even if you're a short, balding, fat man.

A woman might like soft hands because she likes the smooth caress of your touch. That same woman might like your rough fighter/worker hands because she likes the manhood behind the touch.
If they are YOUR hands, she will like them. Your hands are anchored to you, which is the object of her affection.