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Hi all. I have been frequenting this site since November 2009. The point of my post is not so much focused on PE, but rather a severe problem I've endured due to a vasectomy 2 years ago. Given the importance of sex and sexual well-being to those on this site, I want to provide this educational information and warning to you all, in hopes that it saves someone else from my fate. I apologize in advance for the length of this post.
First, a little about me. I am now 37 years old. I've been married to my lovely wife for 11 years. We have three children, which are the joys of my life. I guess you could say I may not be the typical PE type. I've always considered myself of average size (I measured 6 3/4" BPEL and 5 3/8" EG in November 2009) and had no desire to get bigger (didn't even now it was a possibility and still wouldn't if not for my vasectomy experience). Sex has always been a happy part of our lives, but my wife is my best friend and our lives certainly do not revolve around sex alone. With this brief introduction, let me delve into my vasectomy experience.
I had a vasectomy in April 2008, right before the birth of our third child.I was nervous about this procedure, but the pre-consult with my urologist convinced me that there was nothing to be worried about. The procedure itself ended up being more painful than what I was told to expect. I jumped when they went to cut the right vas, so they had to apply additional anesthetic before proceeding. Even afterward, I sensed a numb awareness of what was occurring on that side. Afterward, I iced all weekend and didn't seem to have any major issues with the overall recovery. Nothing hurt and everything progressed as I was told to expect.
After 2 weeks, we attempted having sex. During the erection, I had a sharp pain like nothing I have ever felt before on the right side. It was in the 8-9 range and instantly killed my erection and I had difficulty getting it back to complete the "assignment". This was very depressing, but I wrote it off as just not healed yet. I continued to have pains during sex for the first 4-5 weeks, but they gradually disappeared. So I thought nothing more of it. Incidentally, when it came time to test the results, I still had sperm in my semen after two tests 3-4 months post vasectomy. The doctor offered to redo the procedure, which I declined given the pain from the first one.
Everything was for the most part status quo after that time until September of 2009 (I would say now in hindsight my libido and testosterone levels were gradually dropping, but nothing that I focused on at the time). Then out of the blue, when we had sex one evening, the shooting pain on the right side was back. I noticed a large lump (a sperm granuloma) on that side. Afterward, each time we had sex, I experienced sharp pains. So much so that I avoided sex and noticed that my libido was quickly dissipating. I also started to notice congestive type pains during the day, often when sitting. These occurred mainly on the right side, but also started occurring on the left occasionally as well. The best way to explain these are to visualize a fire hose with a knot in it and the water turned on full pressure. Obviously there is a lot of pressure on the hose (or in my case the vas deferens section and epididymis attached to my testicles).
Needless to say, I was a complete mess emotionally on top of the physical pains. I slipped into a severe depression, considered suicide on numerous occasions, and generally lost all will to live. I just wanted to be put out of my misery. This is when my wife and I started searching the web for post-vasectomy pain and came across a couple websites and a support group on Yahoo (http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VasectomyPain/?yguid=420162391). The picture became clear regarding what I was dealing with, that being nerve related damage due to the vasectomy along with textbook symptoms of congestive pain.
I saw my original urologist, who immediately acknowledged that I was suffering from post vasectomy pain syndrome (PVPS) and admitted to seeing at least one "victim" every month suffering the same (none of this was shared during the pre-vasectomy consult, in fact they pushed the fact that this was a painless surgery that would have no side effects and would actually lead to more sex – man am I a sucker for a sales job; I’ve never experienced this degree of a sales push even in buying a car). He kept nervously darting in and out of the examination room as my wife and I peppered him with questions (it became immediately obvious that we knew more about the situation than he did and all he saw was a malpractice suit waiting to happen). He eventually examined me and stated I had two options, one to convert my vasectomy to open ended (the original procedure had used clips) or perform a reversal. He recommended the reversal (so at least he was honest and didn’t give me much of a run around, other than darting eyes and anxiety to have the meeting over with).
At this point, I knew enough from my research to not try the open ended vasectomy. I selected a reversal from a specialist recommended from the Yahoo support group (I certainly was not about to have the original butcher…I mean urologist…perform the surgery). I had an uneventful reversal in March 2010. In the interim time period, I stumbled into this site as I was searching for possible options with heat treatment for my PVPS symptoms. Some other guys that have faced similar issues (particularly congestive in nature) have had success using hot tubs to reduce the production of sperm. While I didn't have access to a hot tub, I thought a heat lamp may work, and this site mentioned it being used as an option to heat the penis and groin area as part of the PE workout. So I started doing this in the mornings, and since I was sitting there doing nothing, I decided I would read up on PE and decided to give it a try. It became something I actually enjoyed and I worked out for a full three months prior to my reversal.
The recovery to date from the reversal has been pretty much to script. After 2 weeks, we were instructed to have sex every day for the next month or more. I was very nervous about this, as I hadn’t had a non-painful sexual experience with my wife for over 6 months. But somewhat to my surprise, there was no pain at all. Over the coming months, the surgical pain subsided and I have experienced very little congestive pain. It is a little bit of a roller coaster, and I know from others’ experience my recovery can take up to 1 year, but so far, so good for the most part on the physical pain issues. If I do have any problems, now, it is related to a sort of backup pressure kind of thing in the right epi which seems to be resolved if I take a couple minutes to massage it. Obviously, it's taking some work to get things flowing again.
Hormonal balance is another story altogether. My T-levels are that of an average 70 year old, and my libido is nonexistent. I have also suffered from mild erectile dysfunction. I am taking numerous supplements and am seeing some improvement in T-levels and emotional balance, although to date it is doing nothing to improve the libido. I’m afraid that there has been irreversible damage to my Leydig cells, testicles, and an autoimmune response (which I confirmed via tests) with sperm antibodies in my system. So this is my lot in life and something I will have to deal with the rest of my life.
Since I'm now past the surgical pain of the reversal, I have decided to pick back up my PE workouts. I started anew a couple weeks ago. I basically follow JP's routine. As far as gains are concerned, prior to starting back up again, I was at 8 1/8" BPEL and 5 3/4" EG. So I've been quite happy with my gains and frankly they were one of the ways I've kept sane and wanted to keep going with my bad vasectomy experiences. You could say that PE has saved my life, to some extent
.
So why am I posting this? Well, I'm not telling you not to consider or have a vasectomy when the time is right in your life. And for those of you that have had one without consequence, I'm extremely happy for you and hope you never have issues (just know that medical research has found problems arising anytime from directly after vasectomy to up to 20 years afterward, so you are never completely out of the woods so to speak). What I do want to do is provide a few basic facts on PVPS so you can make an educated decision for yourself.
While the research is limited regarding PVPS, published studies indicate an occurrence rate in the 5 - 15% range, depending on the study. Those of us with the symptoms typically guesstimate around 10%. So the majority will not experience these issues. However, if you are unfortunate to land in the 10% range, the symptoms can range from mildly annoying to life debilitating (including a couple of us who have lost their careers and are on long-term disability as they cannot function at their jobs - one I know personally has trouble bringing the groceries in and walking the dog, his situation is extremely severe). In my personal opinion, if someone had told me there was a 10% chance I would lose some or all of my sexual function and well-being, I know that I would not have gone through with the surgery (as an analogy, would you step onto a plane that had a 10% chance of crashing?). Therein lies the problem. Vasectomies are a huge money maker for the urology field, as well as seen as a major step in global population control (I don't even want to get into the manipulation used in third world countries to entice/bribe males to do this to their bodies - it's an absolute disgrace and makes me sick to my stomach). So you won't be provided this information by your doctor. And it will not be provided on the consent form you sign prior to the surgery (odd legal issue here, but if no one discloses it, they are not held accountable for malpractice as it's not considered something you would have known about if you went to another doctor, and good luck getting one urologist to take the stand against another when they all share the same malpractice insurance companies). So you need to be your own advocate and do your own homework. Also understand that while your insurance will fully pay for the vasectomy, if something goes wrong, the most likely outcome is a reversal and that will cost you $7,000 - 8,000 out of your own pocket in all likelihood (I have lost my claim battle with the insurance company, and I can even prove I was fertile all along so there is no way I did the reversal for infertility reasons). Also understand that this is not a cure all, and most of us will continue to fight varying degrees of issues throughout the rest of our lives. So this voluntary medical procedure can create complications that are not fixable (which makes it even more of a gamble in my book). At the end of the day, ask yourself how comfortable/trusting you are to mess with nature in this critical area. It seems like common sense to me now, and I thought I was a smart guy, but none of that prevented me from making the absolute worst decision in my life with a vasectomy.
Another interesting note. Prior to having a vasectomy, everyone I spoke to that had gone through the experience said it was no big deal, no issues at all (including my dad). After hearing about my problems with PVPS, I now know a handful of guys in my own neighborhood fighting varying degrees and issues with pain. And my dad tells me he had issues his first couple years and had a follow up surgery to remove a granuloma. And one of my uncles who said it was no big deal admitted that he occasionally has pains but hadn't associated or thought they were related to the vasectomy until he heard my story. As guys, this is not something we want to openly discuss, and unfortunately most of the sufferers fight this battle alone (in fact my aunt didn't know her husband was having some issues until he mentioned it to me - he thought he was the only one and was too embarrassed to bring it up). So if you or someone you know is fighting some issues and has had a vasectomy, have them check out the Yahoo forum or do some we searches for PVPS. We are not crazy people that don't know what we are talking about, and the support group is incredibly helpful, including pointing you in the direction of medical specialists that understand and are compassionate about the issue. In particular, there is a doctor at the University of Florida who is a leading expert in robotical, specialized and focused denervation of the spermatic cord, which is the other surgical option to consider if someone has more nerve related problems with their vasectomy. Unfortunately, many of the general urologists don't know much about it and will either dismiss you as nuts ("It's all in your head") or refer you to a pain specialist and not want to see you again. But there is hope and people out there that can help. I have personally taken the calls of a couple local gentlemen who "met" me on the support group and wanted to discuss further. You will find guys that will provide you as much support as we can. Unfortunately, we do not have a larger voice or nonprofit organization speaking out for us (incidentally, there is a political activist group fighting out about female tubal ligation, which I guess has some possible issues of it's own right - and the females know how to better organize, perhaps given the breast cancer push all, I guess).
So for the sake of providing much needed information, and knowing you all may be interested in this given your interests in PE, I am sharing a very personal, embarrassing story with you all so that hopefully your lives are not similarly affected. Take care of your bodies, and when you need (or in my case seek unneeded) medical attention, do your own homework and DO NOT simply take the doctor's word for it. They are not necessarily looking after your best interests. I hope to never make this mistake again with my future medical needs.
Regards,
Jason
First, a little about me. I am now 37 years old. I've been married to my lovely wife for 11 years. We have three children, which are the joys of my life. I guess you could say I may not be the typical PE type. I've always considered myself of average size (I measured 6 3/4" BPEL and 5 3/8" EG in November 2009) and had no desire to get bigger (didn't even now it was a possibility and still wouldn't if not for my vasectomy experience). Sex has always been a happy part of our lives, but my wife is my best friend and our lives certainly do not revolve around sex alone. With this brief introduction, let me delve into my vasectomy experience.
I had a vasectomy in April 2008, right before the birth of our third child.I was nervous about this procedure, but the pre-consult with my urologist convinced me that there was nothing to be worried about. The procedure itself ended up being more painful than what I was told to expect. I jumped when they went to cut the right vas, so they had to apply additional anesthetic before proceeding. Even afterward, I sensed a numb awareness of what was occurring on that side. Afterward, I iced all weekend and didn't seem to have any major issues with the overall recovery. Nothing hurt and everything progressed as I was told to expect.
After 2 weeks, we attempted having sex. During the erection, I had a sharp pain like nothing I have ever felt before on the right side. It was in the 8-9 range and instantly killed my erection and I had difficulty getting it back to complete the "assignment". This was very depressing, but I wrote it off as just not healed yet. I continued to have pains during sex for the first 4-5 weeks, but they gradually disappeared. So I thought nothing more of it. Incidentally, when it came time to test the results, I still had sperm in my semen after two tests 3-4 months post vasectomy. The doctor offered to redo the procedure, which I declined given the pain from the first one.
Everything was for the most part status quo after that time until September of 2009 (I would say now in hindsight my libido and testosterone levels were gradually dropping, but nothing that I focused on at the time). Then out of the blue, when we had sex one evening, the shooting pain on the right side was back. I noticed a large lump (a sperm granuloma) on that side. Afterward, each time we had sex, I experienced sharp pains. So much so that I avoided sex and noticed that my libido was quickly dissipating. I also started to notice congestive type pains during the day, often when sitting. These occurred mainly on the right side, but also started occurring on the left occasionally as well. The best way to explain these are to visualize a fire hose with a knot in it and the water turned on full pressure. Obviously there is a lot of pressure on the hose (or in my case the vas deferens section and epididymis attached to my testicles).
Needless to say, I was a complete mess emotionally on top of the physical pains. I slipped into a severe depression, considered suicide on numerous occasions, and generally lost all will to live. I just wanted to be put out of my misery. This is when my wife and I started searching the web for post-vasectomy pain and came across a couple websites and a support group on Yahoo (http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VasectomyPain/?yguid=420162391). The picture became clear regarding what I was dealing with, that being nerve related damage due to the vasectomy along with textbook symptoms of congestive pain.
I saw my original urologist, who immediately acknowledged that I was suffering from post vasectomy pain syndrome (PVPS) and admitted to seeing at least one "victim" every month suffering the same (none of this was shared during the pre-vasectomy consult, in fact they pushed the fact that this was a painless surgery that would have no side effects and would actually lead to more sex – man am I a sucker for a sales job; I’ve never experienced this degree of a sales push even in buying a car). He kept nervously darting in and out of the examination room as my wife and I peppered him with questions (it became immediately obvious that we knew more about the situation than he did and all he saw was a malpractice suit waiting to happen). He eventually examined me and stated I had two options, one to convert my vasectomy to open ended (the original procedure had used clips) or perform a reversal. He recommended the reversal (so at least he was honest and didn’t give me much of a run around, other than darting eyes and anxiety to have the meeting over with).
At this point, I knew enough from my research to not try the open ended vasectomy. I selected a reversal from a specialist recommended from the Yahoo support group (I certainly was not about to have the original butcher…I mean urologist…perform the surgery). I had an uneventful reversal in March 2010. In the interim time period, I stumbled into this site as I was searching for possible options with heat treatment for my PVPS symptoms. Some other guys that have faced similar issues (particularly congestive in nature) have had success using hot tubs to reduce the production of sperm. While I didn't have access to a hot tub, I thought a heat lamp may work, and this site mentioned it being used as an option to heat the penis and groin area as part of the PE workout. So I started doing this in the mornings, and since I was sitting there doing nothing, I decided I would read up on PE and decided to give it a try. It became something I actually enjoyed and I worked out for a full three months prior to my reversal.
The recovery to date from the reversal has been pretty much to script. After 2 weeks, we were instructed to have sex every day for the next month or more. I was very nervous about this, as I hadn’t had a non-painful sexual experience with my wife for over 6 months. But somewhat to my surprise, there was no pain at all. Over the coming months, the surgical pain subsided and I have experienced very little congestive pain. It is a little bit of a roller coaster, and I know from others’ experience my recovery can take up to 1 year, but so far, so good for the most part on the physical pain issues. If I do have any problems, now, it is related to a sort of backup pressure kind of thing in the right epi which seems to be resolved if I take a couple minutes to massage it. Obviously, it's taking some work to get things flowing again.
Hormonal balance is another story altogether. My T-levels are that of an average 70 year old, and my libido is nonexistent. I have also suffered from mild erectile dysfunction. I am taking numerous supplements and am seeing some improvement in T-levels and emotional balance, although to date it is doing nothing to improve the libido. I’m afraid that there has been irreversible damage to my Leydig cells, testicles, and an autoimmune response (which I confirmed via tests) with sperm antibodies in my system. So this is my lot in life and something I will have to deal with the rest of my life.
Since I'm now past the surgical pain of the reversal, I have decided to pick back up my PE workouts. I started anew a couple weeks ago. I basically follow JP's routine. As far as gains are concerned, prior to starting back up again, I was at 8 1/8" BPEL and 5 3/4" EG. So I've been quite happy with my gains and frankly they were one of the ways I've kept sane and wanted to keep going with my bad vasectomy experiences. You could say that PE has saved my life, to some extent
.So why am I posting this? Well, I'm not telling you not to consider or have a vasectomy when the time is right in your life. And for those of you that have had one without consequence, I'm extremely happy for you and hope you never have issues (just know that medical research has found problems arising anytime from directly after vasectomy to up to 20 years afterward, so you are never completely out of the woods so to speak). What I do want to do is provide a few basic facts on PVPS so you can make an educated decision for yourself.
While the research is limited regarding PVPS, published studies indicate an occurrence rate in the 5 - 15% range, depending on the study. Those of us with the symptoms typically guesstimate around 10%. So the majority will not experience these issues. However, if you are unfortunate to land in the 10% range, the symptoms can range from mildly annoying to life debilitating (including a couple of us who have lost their careers and are on long-term disability as they cannot function at their jobs - one I know personally has trouble bringing the groceries in and walking the dog, his situation is extremely severe). In my personal opinion, if someone had told me there was a 10% chance I would lose some or all of my sexual function and well-being, I know that I would not have gone through with the surgery (as an analogy, would you step onto a plane that had a 10% chance of crashing?). Therein lies the problem. Vasectomies are a huge money maker for the urology field, as well as seen as a major step in global population control (I don't even want to get into the manipulation used in third world countries to entice/bribe males to do this to their bodies - it's an absolute disgrace and makes me sick to my stomach). So you won't be provided this information by your doctor. And it will not be provided on the consent form you sign prior to the surgery (odd legal issue here, but if no one discloses it, they are not held accountable for malpractice as it's not considered something you would have known about if you went to another doctor, and good luck getting one urologist to take the stand against another when they all share the same malpractice insurance companies). So you need to be your own advocate and do your own homework. Also understand that while your insurance will fully pay for the vasectomy, if something goes wrong, the most likely outcome is a reversal and that will cost you $7,000 - 8,000 out of your own pocket in all likelihood (I have lost my claim battle with the insurance company, and I can even prove I was fertile all along so there is no way I did the reversal for infertility reasons). Also understand that this is not a cure all, and most of us will continue to fight varying degrees of issues throughout the rest of our lives. So this voluntary medical procedure can create complications that are not fixable (which makes it even more of a gamble in my book). At the end of the day, ask yourself how comfortable/trusting you are to mess with nature in this critical area. It seems like common sense to me now, and I thought I was a smart guy, but none of that prevented me from making the absolute worst decision in my life with a vasectomy.
Another interesting note. Prior to having a vasectomy, everyone I spoke to that had gone through the experience said it was no big deal, no issues at all (including my dad). After hearing about my problems with PVPS, I now know a handful of guys in my own neighborhood fighting varying degrees and issues with pain. And my dad tells me he had issues his first couple years and had a follow up surgery to remove a granuloma. And one of my uncles who said it was no big deal admitted that he occasionally has pains but hadn't associated or thought they were related to the vasectomy until he heard my story. As guys, this is not something we want to openly discuss, and unfortunately most of the sufferers fight this battle alone (in fact my aunt didn't know her husband was having some issues until he mentioned it to me - he thought he was the only one and was too embarrassed to bring it up). So if you or someone you know is fighting some issues and has had a vasectomy, have them check out the Yahoo forum or do some we searches for PVPS. We are not crazy people that don't know what we are talking about, and the support group is incredibly helpful, including pointing you in the direction of medical specialists that understand and are compassionate about the issue. In particular, there is a doctor at the University of Florida who is a leading expert in robotical, specialized and focused denervation of the spermatic cord, which is the other surgical option to consider if someone has more nerve related problems with their vasectomy. Unfortunately, many of the general urologists don't know much about it and will either dismiss you as nuts ("It's all in your head") or refer you to a pain specialist and not want to see you again. But there is hope and people out there that can help. I have personally taken the calls of a couple local gentlemen who "met" me on the support group and wanted to discuss further. You will find guys that will provide you as much support as we can. Unfortunately, we do not have a larger voice or nonprofit organization speaking out for us (incidentally, there is a political activist group fighting out about female tubal ligation, which I guess has some possible issues of it's own right - and the females know how to better organize, perhaps given the breast cancer push all, I guess).
So for the sake of providing much needed information, and knowing you all may be interested in this given your interests in PE, I am sharing a very personal, embarrassing story with you all so that hopefully your lives are not similarly affected. Take care of your bodies, and when you need (or in my case seek unneeded) medical attention, do your own homework and DO NOT simply take the doctor's word for it. They are not necessarily looking after your best interests. I hope to never make this mistake again with my future medical needs.
Regards,
Jason
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