PE vs testosterone vs dht?

[sizeupupup Member Find all posts View Profile Close sizeupupup]

So... for the moderators/experienced:

does DHT levels contribute directly to PE?

[Big Al AdministratorPEGym EditorMale Enhancement Coach Rep.PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Big Al]

So... for the moderators/experienced:

does DHT levels contribute directly to PE?

It may appear that way in some cases, but it could be a result of merely correcting a deficiency as opposed to what most guys would define as "enlargement".

Here's a post on this subject: https://www.pegym.com/forums/beginne...html#post27840

[scientificapproach Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scientificapproach]

It may appear that way in some cases, but it could be a result of merely correcting a deficiency as opposed to what most guys would define as "enlargement".

Here's a post on this subject: https://www.pegym.com/forums/beginne...html#post27840

Hi Guys. Its been a very long time since I last posted on here. I have been a chronic NON gainer. Nothing seems to have worked for me. I have spent the past few years looking into androgens and hormones. I know my testosterone level is borderline low, therefore my DHT is likely also low. I am becoming more and more convinced that there ARE hidden/chemical/hormonal reasons that make PE a success or failure.

I am beginning to see more and more medical journal studies done on how certain hormones and chemicals do indeed have effects in the smooth muscle and penis. It is now becoming evident testosterone/androgens are very important in preventing smooth muscle atrophy, and venous leakage, and also in producing Nitric Oxide. Testosterone can also trigger growth factor and IGF-1 release. Seemingly androgen receptors may now not be completely down regulated after puberty.

I agree it may at first appear as if androgens only normalise size, but this fact in itself suggest they play a critical role in the growth cell cycle. I theorise PE may be impossible without certain hormone/chemical levels being adequate. Pathways on a biological level are so complex, and sometimes just one missing protein in the chain can halt the entire process.

I believe DLD once stated in a thread, a penis is a penis, if it isn't growing, your probably not using enough intensity. I have some severe doubts over this. I feel the human body is alot more complex, forcing growth with bombardment isn't always possible! On the surface, sure we all look fairly similar. But as bodybuilders know, somatypes exist. If an ectomorph with low testosterone tries to train like a genetically gifted individual he will likely over train and burn out fairly quickly. Why do we think these differences do not apply to the penis?!

I would like to see more work done by the PE community to try and work out what the hormonal differences are between big gainers, average gainers and non gainers. I think testosterone/DHT would be the perfect place to start. I may start a new thread and start trying to piece together what I can.

[vulcan Retired ModeratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close vulcan]

Nice post scientificapproach!

I think the OP will appreciate it. I hope you do start that thread.

Is it your opinion that the OP will make less gains if taking DHT blockers?

[scientificapproach Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scientificapproach]

Nice post scientificapproach!

I think the OP will appreciate it. I hope you do start that thread.

Is it your opinion that the OP will make less gains if taking DHT blockers?

Hi Vulcan, and thank you (nice name incidentally! We could use Mr Spock on this forum )

I personally feel DHT inhibiting drugs may well prove detrimental to PE in the long run. I find finasteride and similar drugs worrying. From what I've read some people develop some rather unpleasant side effects from what I believe is the permanent turning off of the gene responsible for 5-alpha reductase. People often seem to demonise DHT, when it of course has many important roles. It may be one of the best preventions against gynecomastia for example by antagonising the estrogen receptors. I often read about people claiming finasteride seems to lower their sex drive and performance. I feel performance and EQ may well be signs that we have the correct hormones not only for erections but possible for growth. Of course it gets interesting when we then begin to question why penis growth isn't noticed by all steroid users. This is a different thread though, in a nut shell I believe it essentially might be to do with DHT and its major affinity for thr AR, compared to other androgens such as deca and winstrol.

It does seem that finasteride users seem to note that problems remain after the drug is discontinued, again making one wonder exactly how this drug works, and if there is permanent gene alteration.

I guess everyone is different though, and perhaps not everyone responds to the same drug in the same way. Dosage playing a big part too. I suppose if performance is unaltered perhaps ones PE potential will also be unaltered. However, if one had performance issues on such drugs I feel there might be reason to believe this would translate to difficulty gaining. If DHT levels were drastically lowered, perhaps after a period of time the lack of androgens would mean that the smooth muscle was beginning to atrophy, which has been linked with erectile dysfunction.

A thread on hormones and their role in PE would be fantastic, but I can see it proving difficult to gain data, as I doubt many men are aware of their hormone levels. Perhaps tell-tale signs could be useful though, such as lack of beard growth, height, body hair and possible baldness (although I think baldness, and perhaps all these symptoms are not quite as black and white as we might like!)

[vulcan Retired ModeratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close vulcan]

I am of the same opinion on dht. I am not prepared to block it personally.

It would be great to hear from experienced PE'ers who have taken Finestaride.

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

Background: My T level is just below the normal range and has been just above or below for several years. I have practiced PE regularly for 12 months, including jelqing, stretching, pumping, extender, and just recently started hanging. In addition, I have suffered increasing ED problems for 15 years, which is most likely attributable to my diabetes. My gains to date have been at most 1/4 inch in length and girth.

I have an appointment to see a Urologist on Nov. 19. It will be interesting to see if the Urologist recommends a treatment to increase my testosterone and as a result I begin to see bigger gains.

I will keep you posted.

[Casanovaman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Casanovaman]

Androgel and DHT and PE

anyone experienced enough to answer here? https://www.pegym.com/forums/penis-e...tml#post163588

Androgel is topical testosterone not topical DHT like Andractim. DHT is the hormone that primarily effects penis growth not testosterone. However some testosterone converts to DHT in the body. There is more DHT conversion versus estrogen conversion in topical testosterone use versus injectable testosterone use. All skin cells have DHT receptors but they are especially abundant on scrotum skin (not sure about penis skin, probably there too). So theoretically you could get a decent amount of DHT through androgel application to genitals but not as much DHT as Andractim.

[User235 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close User235]

Bump.

This thread never came to any conclusions about DHT levels and the whether or not high or low DHT blood levels affects gains (or possibly make the difference between great gains and no gains).

Can anyone add to the discussion?

[GlowyEyes Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close GlowyEyes]

I've googled this topic and there is no evidence that DHT have any direct effect on PE. However low levels of DHT may affect PE gains indirectly and I am going to explain why.

DHT (dihydrotestosterone) plays a major role in the formation of male external genitalia during puberty. Male individuals with low natural levels of DHT may suffer from undeveloped penis (or micropenis) and no body or pubic hair. Since DHT is a natural result of testosterone metabolism in the body such individuals are prescribed testosterone injections. The logic here is that more T will mean more DHT thus normal genitalia development. After puberty DHT has no effect on the penis size.

It is very important to understand that there is a difference between penis growth through PE exercises and the natural growth during puberty. During the natural growth your body is increasing your penis size on its own based on the information in your genes and your hormonal balance. You cannot affect your genes (at least yet) but you can affect your hormonal balance. But when the puberty period ends your body stops increasing the penis volume. So the hormonal balance shifts will not affect your penis size anymore.

PE exercises are about streching the existing tissue and forcing the cells in it to multiply artificially. So in this case its the process of healing that plays the main role. And it would be logical to ask what effect has DHT on your body's healing processes. Well, DHT is one of the sources of the Nitric Oxide (NO) generation in your body. And NO is metabolized in wounds and facilitates cell regeneration. Here are abstracts of studies on the role of NO in wound healing.

But in my opinion you shouldn't worry because there are many sources for NO in the body. NO is a result of metabolism of L-arginine for example. So eating L-arginine supplements or food reach in L-arginine should offset any loss of NO due to lower DHT. To sum it up according to different sources low DHT does not have any noticeble detrimental effect on gains from PE routine.

P.S. I am not a doctor or a professional in this field.

[phallic1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close phallic1]

Excellent post GlowyEyes.

Androgens Play a Pivotal Role in Maintaining Penile Tissue Architecture and Erection: A Review -- Traish 30 (4): 363 -- Journal of Andrology

[User235 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close User235]

Glowy - that's a great bit of information there. Many systems in the body stop growing at various stages in life - the genes that control growth are still there but they're not being expressed any more. So it's makes sense that the growth phase of the penis ends at a very particular time for each individual. Supplementing with hormones won't cause the re-expression of these genes, so it won't be doing any good at all.

Great advice.

[Banana Bender Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Banana Bender]

I've only seen this post since it was bumped, and I should say I know nuttin' about hormones beyond what every Joe knows.

But the instruction book for my Andropenis says that study subjects who were using hair re-growth formulas such as Propecia and certain unspecified anti-depressants could expect that their penis would not necessarily respond to the stretching device. These drugs were contra-indicated.

Therefore it would appear that there is something in the original post beyond what lay opinions might be - Propecia may indeed negatively affect penis enhancement.

[User235 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close User235]

But the instruction book for my Andropenis says that study subjects who were using hair re-growth formulas such as Propecia and certain unspecified anti-depressants could expect that their penis would not necessarily respond to the stretching device. These drugs were contra-indicated.

.

That's something I'd want to follow up on (although there would be no direct study to show that Propecia or anti-depressants would contraindict PE), I wonder if there are any studies showing a link between these drugs and say a reduction in EQ or size. Time to go googling.

[Banana Bender Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Banana Bender]

You can find reference to some of these studies on the Andropenis site. The Andropenis forum has some discussion on the use of hair restorative drugs.