"Fuck yes" or no.

[Park Lib Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Park Lib]

I don't know about all this 'fuck yes or no' stuff (and I have read that article and take some points from it) but I think it's more important to be someone who a girl can look up to. If you can be better than her then the whole dominance thing should work itself out. I don't subscribe to the whole 'marriage is a democracy' thing. I know from watching my parents and dealing with family crises myself that someone needs to be the person to take charge when the shit hits the ceiling. Now, I'm not saying that we become total self-obsessed arseholes. I mean the opposite of that. I mean the guy who understands his girl and can be that solid irresistable object; being reliable and trustworthy in other words. I understand that this isn't first date advice but these are inherent qualities I think more people need to possess if they want to have long-term committed relationships, which should be the goal I feel.

Then there's the other stuff like taking care of yourself (hygiene and health and fitness), being caring and supportive and having a zest for life. I like that 'take life by the balls' stuff and I feel more confident when I know I am doing something I feel is positive for me. I'm single so I have that luxury but I know deep down that I can take care of someone and not be too overbearing. I know also that life is more complicated than this. You have to set some rules for yourself, some values, and abide by them come what may. Like a ship in the swirling sea, you gotta check your course and that the sails don't snap off.

[tmacdaddy Banned Find all posts View Profile Close tmacdaddy]

i'm so confused by the article and i think it is poorly written...is it only for people who are looking to use a relationship to get married? what about too consenting parties who want to just fuck each other and the answer is fuck yes for both of them but neither of them wants to spend time w the other or can stand each other...does the law of fuck yes apply?

or more confusing what if one person is fuck yes to fuck but nothing else, and one is fuck yes all the way for marriage etc...the fuck yes to fuck should continue pursuing the relationship but what about the second one who wants the marriage?

[Tamora Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Aug 2015 PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Tamora]

Am I glad that I've come to that stage in my life where I am comfortable with myself, being in my own skin and being single. It's giving me a headache reading about relationships, never mind being in one!

Correct me if I'm barking up the wrong tree...but there is so much more to relationships than compatibility and "feelings"...such as physical illness, mental health issues and finances.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

Spanky, you said awhile ago you have lived a sex life 95% of men dream of living. I am the 5%. I am also the 5% who believe if you wrong someone you make it right 100% to the best of your ability. I believe looking for your own benefit in every relationship is selish and hurtful. I know this puts me in about the .5%.

Yes TGD I have relationship problems in every single relationship in my life. I look for people to act for a common good, and the majority live like Mark espouses. Get mine and screw you. Even this digital forum is full of this pervasive selfishness. As I said before. This is what is wrong with society, even if the society is only 2 people. Looking out for each other is how the world needs to change to fix the troubles. Looking out for only you is why we live in a shit hole.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I liked the article.

[Tamora Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Aug 2015 PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Tamora]

I liked the article.

I must admit that I didn't read the full article until today. I thought it was interesting and it's obviously sparked an interesting debate but I did find it very simplistic and full of what I thought was common sense to be honest.

Thank God I don't have to worry about such things at the moment...the whole subject makes me feel cream crackered!

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I think part of the issue is Manson's past history with PUA style approaches. I thought that to be the case, and even remember someone posting a vid here from him a while back that wasn't too well received. I think some of that still carries over into this article, going by some of his references. Phases and escalation ladders? And, he uses some bad examples to make points, and leaves a bit open to interpretation, admittedly.

Not bad, as every situation is different. But the very gray area he addresses, is left with a gray area for application as an answer. That's why there's so many opinions and interpretations (and confusion by those seeking it's wisdom, apparent by a post above).

It's quite aggressive in approach. Not just assertive, aggressive.

I also think there is some good info in there. Which seems to be the case with most PUA, where some self empowerment mixes with some devious intent of using others for purely self satisfaction.

Self respect, self worth, self acceptance, being honest, open, and even (appropriately) assertive in going after what you want...these can all be good attributes, in any kind of a relationship. Dating, marriage, and yep, even friendships. As is personal boundaries, and mutual positive reaction, or excitement. And, positive self change if you are not happy with yourself.

But, it bypasses a few important things, and merely writes them off as no's. What if the other is interested, thinking "fuck yes!", but simply doesn't show it in an easily recognizable way.

Or the make out example. Say she has enough respect for herself to take it slow. And, also wants more than just sex, so puts it off, to develop other areas besides just physical attraction. The guy just wants to bang, she hesitates, and he says "that's a no, move on"? For a quick screw, he could have very well just left behind a long lasting, positive, mutually respectful, loving relationship, because he took it as not a "fuck yes!". Wow, that sucks.

Also, it opens miscommunication. What happens when both expect that "fuck yes!"? Then both are waiting, and neither receive it. Must be no's then, right? Somebody has to make the move. And courting, that stage where feelings are unclear, and you are getting to know someone, shouldn't be taken as game playing, manipulation, or chasing. Showing interest, feeling things out, is a very natural stage of dating.

I get the feeling that this applies to more of a one night stand situation, with other aspects thrown in.

Every relationship takes work. Happiness and a bucket full of "fuck yes" is not going to fall in your lap. I feel much will be lost if people immediately take things as such solid, yes or no parameters.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Change is not comfortable; it is hard to look at one's faults without becoming becoming overly critical. However, no one changes if they are comfortable; in other words, no one improves if they are comfortable.

Heard that before, and I like it. Complacency in any situation leads to repetitive results. Change has to start somewhere, with recognition, motivation, and initiative.

I would also add that it doesn't have to come at the cost of devaluing others. Seeing worth in yourself does not detract it from others. That's not mutual respect, and would be faulty confidence, still reliant on others in some fashion.

[GTO Retired ModeratorPEGym EditorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close GTO]

I think part of the issue is Manson's past history with PUA style approaches. I thought that to be the case, and even remember someone posting a vid here from him a while back that wasn't too well received. I think some of that still carries over into this article, going by some of his references. Phases and escalation ladders? And, he uses some bad examples to make points, and leaves a bit open to interpretation, admittedly.

Not bad, as every situation is different. But the very gray area he addresses, is left with a gray area for application as an answer. That's why there's so many opinions and interpretations (and confusion by those seeking it's wisdom, apparent by a post above).

It's quite aggressive in approach. Not just assertive, aggressive.

I also think there is some good info in there. Which seems to be the case with most PUA, where some self empowerment mixes with some devious intent of using others for purely self satisfaction.

Self respect, self worth, self acceptance, being honest, open, and even (appropriately) assertive in going after what you want...these can all be good attributes, in any kind of a relationship. Dating, marriage, and yep, even friendships. As is personal boundaries, and mutual positive reaction, or excitement. And, positive self change if you are not happy with yourself.

But, it bypasses a few important things, and merely writes them off as no's. What if the other is interested, thinking "fuck yes!", but simply doesn't show it in an easily recognizable way.

Or the make out example. Say she has enough respect for herself to take it slow. And, also wants more than just sex, so puts it off, to develop other areas besides just physical attraction. The guy just wants to bang, she hesitates, and he says "that's a no, move on"? For a quick screw, he could have very well just left behind a long lasting, positive, mutually respectful, loving relationship, because he took it as not a "fuck yes!". Wow, that sucks.

Also, it opens miscommunication. What happens when both expect that "fuck yes!"? Then both are waiting, and neither receive it. Must be no's then, right? Somebody has to make the move. And courting, that stage where feelings are unclear, and you are getting to know someone, shouldn't be taken as game playing, manipulation, or chasing. Showing interest, feeling things out, is a very natural stage of dating.

I get the feeling that this applies to more of a one night stand situation, with other aspects thrown in.

Every relationship takes work. Happiness and a bucket full of "fuck yes" is not going to fall in your lap. I feel much will be lost if people immediately take things as such solid, yes or no parameters.

From all of the points you mentioned, to me it means that there's no more guesswork. You let the other person know your intentions and it saves the "I wonder if" issues. Because that's what it all boils down to. One person is expecting one thing, the other is expecting something else, and neither one tells the other person what they really want/feel. You're left to play guessing games and that often ends up with disastrous results. Being honest and upfront with your feelings can go along way with how the relationship progresses.

And you have to be HONEST not only with yourself, but with the other person. Yes, feelings can change, but as long as you are in constant communication, that shouldn't be a problem. Relationships require CONSTANT feedback, CONSTANT inquiry. Some may get tired of that but it's required.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Yep, I understand GTO.

However, if communicating clearly ones feelings were easy for everyone, there would be no need for such advice. Some feelings are hard to put words to, or state intent without being taken wrong.

That's a learned skill through time, and experience. Which not everyone has.

[Tamora Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Aug 2015 PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Tamora]

I think part of the issue is Manson's past history with PUA style approaches. I thought that to be the case, and even remember someone posting a vid here from him a while back that wasn't too well received. I think some of that still carries over into this article, going by some of his references. Phases and escalation ladders? And, he uses some bad examples to make points, and leaves a bit open to interpretation, admittedly.

Not bad, as every situation is different. But the very gray area he addresses, is left with a gray area for application as an answer. That's why there's so many opinions and interpretations (and confusion by those seeking it's wisdom, apparent by a post above).

It's quite aggressive in approach. Not just assertive, aggressive.

I also think there is some good info in there. Which seems to be the case with most PUA, where some self empowerment mixes with some devious intent of using others for purely self satisfaction.

Self respect, self worth, self acceptance, being honest, open, and even (appropriately) assertive in going after what you want...these can all be good attributes, in any kind of a relationship. Dating, marriage, and yep, even friendships. As is personal boundaries, and mutual positive reaction, or excitement. And, positive self change if you are not happy with yourself.

But, it bypasses a few important things, and merely writes them off as no's. What if the other is interested, thinking "fuck yes!", but simply doesn't show it in an easily recognizable way.

Or the make out example. Say she has enough respect for herself to take it slow. And, also wants more than just sex, so puts it off, to develop other areas besides just physical attraction. The guy just wants to bang, she hesitates, and he says "that's a no, move on"? For a quick screw, he could have very well just left behind a long lasting, positive, mutually respectful, loving relationship, because he took it as not a "fuck yes!". Wow, that sucks.

Also, it opens miscommunication. What happens when both expect that "fuck yes!"? Then both are waiting, and neither receive it. Must be no's then, right? Somebody has to make the move. And courting, that stage where feelings are unclear, and you are getting to know someone, shouldn't be taken as game playing, manipulation, or chasing. Showing interest, feeling things out, is a very natural stage of dating.

I get the feeling that this applies to more of a one night stand situation, with other aspects thrown in.

Every relationship takes work. Happiness and a bucket full of "fuck yes" is not going to fall in your lap. I feel much will be lost if people immediately take things as such solid, yes or no parameters.

Totally agree!

This is what I meant when I said I thought the article was very simplistic. Life and relationships very often aren't as clear cut as the article suggests...especially in the early days when a few "fuck no's" from the prospective partner may have been interpreted incorrectly for all sorts of reasons. If only life were that simple!

The article made me think that it would be something that I would probably show to my son when he was a teenager and not something to be taken too seriously as the definitive bible of dating. Have I learned anything from the article? Not really!

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

I liked the article because I took from it what i believe to be imperative in a relationship, that want, excitement to be with one another, many times before i have settled for less just because other boxes were ticked, and i know the same can be said on behalf of some girls i've been with. Now i am in a position to be happy with someone who i'm happy to be with, and who is happy with me, otherwise i will be happy on my own, i''ve spent enough time in my own company to enjoy it. As far as "fuck yes" of course as ta53ora and others pointed out, it is a ssimplistic take on the subject as a whole, if a girl who made me say "fuck yes" and who said "fuck yes" to me later down the line, because of financial problems, intimacy, boredom, was saying " mmmm.... yeah i suppose" that would warrant some change if the underlying feeling of "fuck yes" was still apparent or at least wanted. So through whatever troubles that present themselves that "fuck yes" is being fought for.

If it becomes something that either person in the relationship is feeling that the "fuck yes" is completely gone, and no work or change will return it, then it's entirely up to them to decide whether they can be happy with the " i suppose yes", or go in search of " fuck yes" elsewhere.

[GTO Retired ModeratorPEGym EditorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close GTO]

If it becomes something that either person in the relationship is feeling that the "fuck yes" is completely gone, and no work or change will return it, then it's entirely up to them to decide whether they can be happy with the " i suppose yes", or go in search of " fuck yes" elsewhere.

Boom.

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

Yeah good stuff, too bad none of that is in that article. You are describing real world relationships where you decide to make each other feel special. Or not. Where in the sentence "fuck yes, or no", or that whole article do you find giving a shit about the other person's feelings or needs matter? Unless the other person's needs feelings or desires make you feel fuck yes all the time. Where in the article was that?

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

Yeah good stuff, too bad none of that is in that article. You are describing real world relationships where you decide to make each other feel special. Or not. Where in the sentence "fuck yes, or no", or that whole article do you find giving a shit about the other person's feelings or needs matter? Unless the other person's needs feelings or desires make you feel fuck yes all the time. Where in the article was that?

I know, it is lacking but it's what i took from it, if his meaning was as you said, everyone look for the "fuck yes" regardless the other person's feelings, then those "fuck yes" encounters would be short lived. I don't think that's what he is saying, but i could be wrong.