Ketogenic Diet

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

To each his own and if it works for you fine. Whether you know it or not I have read your posts for a long time. Maybe I just think you're a better guy than you think you are! Was it the change in diet that helped you? Could be. Or it could be that when you decided to make yourself better your brain agreed with it. Recurrent apthous ulcers, which you know as a canker sore, may come from a poor diet but more often they are the result of stress but hey what do I know!

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

To each his own and if it works for you fine. Whether you know it or not I have read your posts for a long time. Maybe I just think you're a better guy than you think you are! Was it the change in diet that helped you? Could be. Or it could be that when you decided to make yourself better your brain agreed with it. Recurrent apthous ulcers, which you know as a canker sore, may come from a poor diet but more often they are the result of stress but hey what do I know!

Thank you CUSP82.

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

One think I have learned from starting this thread it that diet choices seem to be more emotional for many people than I expected. I didn't realize there would be this much of an emotional response (myself included) when I created the thread.

Everyone is a work in progress. All of us will try many new things over the course of our lives. Some will be positive additions and others will not. Along the way we will unintentionally offend others with the intent of helping. Ultimately we all have to make the decisions that we feel are best for our live, and live with the consequences whether they are positive or negative. Live an learn.

Lets just close out this thread.

[lowpang Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lowpang]

you had mentioned something about thoughts on getting your wife to go lo carb…
so I thought I would interject something I heard that Timothy ferriss or Dave Ashprey say in one of there interviews,
woman need more carbs than men, it's better for women to that go low card, to add some, not sure why, but he said they need more than men…

I think going paileo is an excellent option for anyone, low carb has great advantages for muscles and fat loss, and if you play your cards right with MCT oil, grass fed butter, some Nootropics, you can take on the world, with your chin high and a feeling of excellence with each step toward your goals.

I'm personally glad you started this thread
It's a fun read for me...

if you haven't watched anything from the two Biohackers I named above, please do!!! they have changed the way I live my live, so much good stuff.

the only thing I would add is simply that everything has a season, and low carb should have one to, if you plan on going that route.
Think one or two months on, then another form of healthy eating lifestyle, should replace lo carb then so on and so on

Remember everything in moderation including moderation Good luck on your journey

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

I too have enjoyed reading this thread and have learned a lot. I am a diabetic and for the first 20 years relied heavily on insulin to control my glucose levels and for the first fifteen not very well. For the past few months my wife has been following a Weight Watchers diet which is low in carbs and high in vegetables. Accordingly, by default, I too am on a Weight Watchets diet. By coincidence, I have also been eating a lot of nuts for snacks at night.

I use an insulin pump in combination with a continuous glucose monitor which not only tracks glucose levels but also tracks carbohydrate consumption. Since I have been on this diet, my daily carbohydrate consumption has been reduced from 160 - 190 to 90 - 110. As a direct consequence, my insulin use has declined from an average of 85 units a day down to about 55 units a day. I should add, however, that I tend to violate my diet once or twice a week and have a 175 carb day. (I too also want to enjoy life)

Obviously not a ketogennic diet but perhaps getting close to a paleo diet. My point being is that by significantly reducing my carb intake, I have been able to reduce the need for exogenous insulin and feel more energetic. Did I mention I started riding my bike five miles a day. By the way, my wife has lost 23 pounds.

This thread has reinforced my commitment to follow a healthier diet with more exercise.

Thanks guys for the information.

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

Um, I'm sorry, I thought this low-carb Atkins diet BS was already debunked? there's a TON of literature out there saying flat out that we as humans are meant to eat starches and these diets hurt and sometimes kill.

An excess of meat and dairy will lead to disease and illness. Bad breath and a few pounds of glycogen+water loss are the least of your worries, long term.
And that's where all the weight you lose comes from, by the way: water loss and glycogen store depletion. You'll lose maybe 5-10 pounds. And that will be it. Then you'll get sick.

Enjoy!

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

Instead of all these different diets what so wrong with just eating a normal balanced diet? That's what nature tells us. Eat a little bit of everything, especially chocolate cake. Seriously, as we evolved as humans when did nature ever say to eat this or that? Does anything in nature restrict itself in eating? Does a lion not eat a zebra because it's high in fat and instead sticks to wilderbeasts because they have more fiber? I fail to see why moderation in all things with all food groups could be bad.

For myself, I'm looking to see what sort of diet can lead to increased energy, better avoidance of sickness and disease, while keeping me slim and trim as well as helping me in my athletic performance.
I'm not sure if mother nature made it that simple for us. We've adapted to eat lots of things, but that doesn't guarantee what i'm looking for from my meals

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

There's a TON of literature out there saying flat out that we as humans are meant to eat starches and these diets hurt and sometimes kill.

It is a proven scientific fact that carbohydrates are the only nonessential dietary macro nutrient. Which means the human body does not require ingested carbohydrates. The liver can produce the roughly 50 g. per day of glucose required utilizing gluconeogenesis (creating glucose from amino acids).

It was common medical practice to use strict ketogenic diets to treat epilepsy, prior to the development of pharmaceutical drugs, and type 1 diabetes, prior to the discover of insulin, with a very high success rate an no additional health issues. Even today Johns Hopkins hospital continues to use a strict ketogenic diet to treat and manage pediatric epilepsy with great success and no negative side effects which often accompany even the most recently developed drugs.

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

For myself, I'm looking to see what sort of diet can lead to increased energy, better avoidance of sickness and disease, while keeping me slim and trim as well as helping me in my athletic performance.
I'm not sure if mother nature made it that simple for us. We've adapted to eat lots of things, but that doesn't guarantee what i'm looking for from my meals

I'm looking for the exact same thing and have been for 30 years. I can tell you that following US Government dietary guidelines have not work for me. Long term calorie restriction has not worked for me. High protein, low fat, moderate carbs has not worked for me. I am not saying that Keto will work, but what I am saying as I am trying to keep an open mind. I'm willing to give it a shot and see if it works for me.

We all need to keep trying new things until we discover what works best for each of us.

Just remember that for the last 30 years dietary fat has been demonized. But lately science is discovering that it isn't the main cause for heart disease as was believed by the scientific community back in the 1970's.

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

It is a proven scientific fact that carbohydrates are the only nonessential dietary macro nutrient. Which means the human body does not require ingested carbohydrates. The liver can produce the roughly 50 g. per day of glucose required utilizing gluconeogenesis (creating glucose from amino acids).

It was common medical practice to use strict ketogenic diets to treat epilepsy, prior to the development of pharmaceutical drugs, and type 1 diabetes, prior to the discover of insulin, with a very high success rate an no additional health issues. Even today Johns Hopkins hospital continues to use a strict ketogenic diet to treat and manage pediatric epilepsy with great success and no negative side effects which often accompany even the most recently developed drugs.

Normally, you'll see my posts as being very open minded. I tend to shy away from extremes of any sort because the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You'll rarely see me flat out say to someone that they're wrong, because often enough, there is some truth to what they say.

But you're wrong. All of the nutrition and sports nutrition books and courses that I've read and am certified in (international sports sciences association, and the health sciences academy) say the same exact thing: you *need* carbs. It's the primary fuel source. Performance in sport AND in general wellbeing DECREASE when you avoid carbohydrates.
Just listen to your body: carbs are something you'll end up CRAVING. You'll eat them, then gain a ton of weight. This ketogenic diet is *not* sustainable and everyone I've ever listened to, everyone I've ever read say the same thing: it's extremely unhealthy.

Actually, there are one group of people who say that it's good for you: the meat and dairy industry or the people they employ. The Atkins diet has SIDE EFFECTS to the diet. My diet doesn't have any side effects, Sean. Not one. Nor should yours. My diet doesn't require careful monitoring of the foods I eat, or a lot of self control to avoid things. I'm able to eat in abundance without danger.

It's funny because I just recently listened to this one Md and researcher speak about the meat and dairy industry and how they funded studies looking for health benefits of a high protein, high fat diet. The great majority (some 70% and more) came back either with no benefit, or were dangerous.
Take a second to think about that. They funded a study and the scientists they paid said "yea, we couldn't find any link between positive health and eating a lot of this food."


Do yourself a favour and at least get yourself measured. Measure your body fat percentage, your water percentage and your lean tissue. Then get on the keto thing. See where the weight is being lost.
Because, there's something you need to understand: someone is profiting to a large degree by having you believe that meat is the prime solution to your troubles.

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

I'm looking for the exact same thing and have been for 30 years. I can tell you that following US Government dietary guidelines have not work for me. Long term calorie restriction has not worked for me. High protein, low fat, moderate carbs has not worked for me. I am not saying that Keto will work, but what I am saying as I am trying to keep an open mind. I'm willing to give it a shot and see if it works for me.

We all need to keep trying new things until we discover what works best for each of us.

Just remember that for the last 30 years dietary fat has been demonized. But lately science is discovering that it isn't the main cause for heart disease as was believed by the scientific community back in the 1970's.

Saturated fats are heavily linked to heart disease. And stroke. And other things.
The US dietary guidelines have been influenced by people who profit from what you eat. I'm sorry to say that it sounds like you've been duped. The food pyramid has been funded by the meat and dairy industry and they'd love for nothing more than for you to think that meat and milk are fantastic. The only thing they'd love more is for you to feed your children an abundance of them.

Then wonder why our meat-rich society has more cases of diabetes, more cases of heart disease, stroke, cancer, etc, than countries who do not consume as much meat.

The science is clear. I'm even qualified to say this stuff!! I'll be educating myself further in the coming years (it's more expensive than I can afford at them moment - gotta save up) but it's not rocket science and a lot of it is repeated in each course or book. A few little equations and measurements and you can get to where you'd like to be.

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

What you probably don't know is that there is a certain number of carbs and proteins required per kg of bodyweight.
if you eat more protein than you need, the excess usually is converted to fat. You're not storing protein "just in case." You gain fat stores.

Which means the amino acids being used for gluconeogenesis are coming from your muscle. Oh sure, some of the protein you'll eat is converted to the sugars your body requires, but during exercise, you'll have to catabolize the muscle. less muscle = lower BMR = lower calories burned at rest. Less muscle also = lower performance.

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

I'm not knowledgeable on this stuff, but I like what your posting and not just because your "certified" but it does ring true. I have been eating a lot of organic meat, veg fruit and trying to avoid the shit, I still faulter. I'm trying to clean bulk, any dietry recommendations, no illnesses or allergies and stawing away from vits and supps.

[Zman007 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Zman007]

Sean, you keep throwing around that CHO are nonessential, so are the vast majority of the fats and amino acids you consume. Only nine of the 21 amino acids are essential and only two fatty acids, linolenic and linoleic. Those are quite readily attained in a balanced diet, beyond that point essential does not matter as those essential needs are met. Nonessential does not equal non optimal. As far as functioning optimally is concerned CHO is essential, it is just not essential for avoiding death. Just because our body is capable of gluconeogenesis does not mean it is preferred.

It is a fact that people in a ketogenic state suffer diminished performance and cognitive functioning.


You keep saying these other styles of diets do not work for you, whether they were balanced, CHO heavy, or High Protein High Fat and moderate CHO. This is a constructed truth, it is only true so long as you believe and make choices that make it so. Flat out, there is no physiological reason you cannot subsist or achieve your health goals on a balanced for low to moderate CHO diet, none. Where you have struggled before is in your behavior patterns and instead of correcting the underlying behavioral issues regarding food, you are looking for a diet that circumvents them.

Yes, the country became fat phobic in the 70s, blame Ancel Keys for that. At the time they have reason to believe Fat was the problem and went overboard replacing fat anywhere they could with refined CHO, and that proved just as bad, all the while activity levels decreased. Just because fat is not as dangerous as it was purported, does not make Keto Diets healthy, the composition of that diet matters. Excess Saturated fats are still unhealthy, as are Trans Fats.

There is absolutely no reason you cannot achieve your goals with a log to moderate CHO diet or a balanced diet. Keto is not required, and despite what anyone tells you, people that are indeed in a Ketogenic state suffer diminished performance which can be acclimated to to some degree. It is not optimal, and optimal diet as far as performance, health and well being is concerned is a more balanced diet that incorporates CHO. Essential nutrients don't matter once they are met, and eliminating CHO because it is nonessential is a poor argument.

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

Great post. Repped.

It is a poor argument... constructed by people who have something to gain.