Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I used to be a fan of capitalism which I am not anymore but I am also not a fan of socialism.

True marxism stems from Bolshevism and will always go full circle into communism.

We are divided to a point where anyone right of some is a fascist while everyone left of something is a full blown communist. This is exactly what Marxists want us to do. To destroy a great and powerful people, you must conquer from within.

Marxism divides a nation, most only see extremes today when in reality, most dem's and Republicans want many of the same things. It is the extreme side of each that gets all of the attention

Its the push towards extremes that they want from us on both sides.

Study the Russian revolution, its a map from history that will show you our future if we don't figure out who the Bolsheviks are.

I know

Fascism is under appreciated, most people toss the word around but have absolutely no clue what it means or why, at times, it is necessary.

[Johnny D ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Johnny D]

I'm sorry ... had to weigh in on this one, because it's so hysterical.

I consider myself a Social Democrat in the vein of Scandavia and such ... you know, tax-payer funded public college, progressive tax policy, universal health insurance, etc. So I'm not even a full-on Socialist or Marxist (meaning I don't support the government taking over the means of production wholesale), though I do have critiques of capitalism, which all skeptical folks should. I listen to Lefties on YouTube, and I can tell you most folks "on the left" are not excited about Biden.

I'll say it again, people on the Right called Obama a socialist. People on the Right will call any Democrat a Socialist. That doesn't make them Socialists.

MSNBC calls Trump a Fascist, that doesn't make him a Fascist.

Equating centrist neoliberal Democrats with Marxists is silly. Again, I'm not a Marxist, just saying this is a false equivalency.

My take is most average folks are getting bent over by both parties. At this point, the problem lies in moneyed interests and the will to hold onto power, not culture wars or who's getting censored or whatever. I can watch OAN if I want, so can you. I can watch Fox News if I want, so can you. I can watch Lefties on YouTube if I want, so can you. I can watch Steven Crowder on YouTube if I want, so can you. I can watch the Blaze if I want, so can you.

All the while, lobbyists and corporate overlords are laughing their way to the bank while many average folks drown in student debt, worry over whether they can afford to go to the doctor, etc, etc.

We already know that you and I have ideological differences and I don't intend to debate the merits of mine vs yours. But I'll just point out one things quickly to think about... Debt from student loans has skyrocketed consistently along with government/public subsidized college funding and the cost of healthcare continues to increase in response to healthcare regulations. Why keep throwing public money at the problems it's creating?

[Johnny D ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Johnny D]

I used to be a fan of capitalism which I am not anymore but I am also not a fan of socialism.

True marxism stems from Bolshevism and will always go full circle into communism.

We are divided to a point where anyone right of some is a fascist while everyone left of something is a full blown communist. This is exactly what Marxists want us to do. To destroy a great and powerful people, you must conquer from within.

Marxism divides a nation, most only see extremes today when in reality, most dem's and Republicans want many of the same things. It is the extreme side of each that gets all of the attention

Its the push towards extremes that they want from us on both sides.

Study the Russian revolution, its a map from history that will show you our future if we don't figure out who the Bolsheviks are.

I know

Fascism is under appreciated, most people toss the word around but have absolutely no clue what it means or why, at times, it is necessary.

I'm always baffled when someone says they aren't a fan of capitalism. It's the only economic system that truly respects the sovereignty of the individual and allows people to exchange for goods and services with the liberties they were born with. No other system has done more to lift people out of poverty and reduce disparity and oppression than capitalism so I'm curious to hear why you're not a fan.

Sorry to derail the topic. We can create a new one if needed to satisfy my curiosity.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I'm always baffled when someone says they aren't a fan of capitalism. It's the only economic system that truly respects the sovereignty of the individual and allows people to exchange for goods and services with the liberties they were born with. No other system has done more to lift people out of poverty and reduce disparity and oppression than capitalism so I'm curious to hear why you're not a fan.

Sorry to derail the topic. We can create a new one if needed to satisfy my curiosity.

I am a fan of the concept, just not a fan of how its been used against us.

The top 1 percent own almost 40 percent of the countries wealth. Large corporations are wiping out mom and pops.

Billionairs pay little in taxes because they can afford teams of accountants while middle class get hammered......don't worry, I am more opposed to communism by far.

Capitalism is a great idea until it is used against a nation, we are divided by class.

I dont like that Walmart is opened while small businesses are forced to shut down.

Calitalism is the best system until it is used against us. If you have a valid reason why Walmart is still opened but small businesses are shut down and its OK, I would love to hear it.

Not arguing with you, just where I am at with it.

We have a better system than most but its still flawed. In a capitalistic society, the top will always separate from the rest and in the long term, this will
Lead to class warfare.

I did not used to think as I do now

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

It would be better for our people if Walmart were shut down so mom and pops could thrive. Even capitalism should have some restraint.

Look what Amazon has done to mom and pops, it goes on and on, what about Pfizer and the big pharma.

Capitalism would be great again if monopolies were busted up, until then, it will continue to destroy.

Its still far better than socialism

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Before you break up Walmart and Amazon consider the good they do.

[madyogi Moderator Member of the Month April 2020PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close madyogi]

We already know that you and I have ideological differences and I don't intend to debate the merits of mine vs yours. But I'll just point out one things quickly to think about... Debt from student loans has skyrocketed consistently along with government/public subsidized college funding and the cost of healthcare continues to increase in response to healthcare regulations. Why keep throwing public money at the problems it's creating?

My point earlier was simply to elucidate the distance between what a Biden administration would do and what Socialism seeks to do. My positions sit somewhere in the middle, generally speaking. Biden and standard neoliberal Democrats are not Socialists.

We should probably keep our debates about policy elsewhere, insofar as we're really interested in having them here at all. That said, it won't surprise you that I think the rising cost of healthcare is due to numerous things, not just increased regulations. To boil it down to that is to oversimplify the situation greatly. And when I think about something like Medicare-for-All, the calculation isn't strictly a cost benefit analysis (ie, driving down costs), it's also about not having my health insurance tied to my employer and a handful of other things. Student loan debt is somewhat tied to public subsidization, but mostly indirectly. My sense is it's tied to rising costs, which are ultimately tied to over-bloated administration budgets. In many ways it's the growth mentality, which goes back to the critique of capitalism. Keep in mind, one can respect capitalism for what it is and appreciate it's strengths, while still understanding its limitations and pitfalls. It shouldn't be an all or nothing prospect.

[madyogi Moderator Member of the Month April 2020PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close madyogi]

Before you break up Walmart and Amazon consider the good they do.

You mean, like free 2-day shipping on cases of rum?

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Before you break up Walmart and Amazon consider the good they do.

I'm not saying they should break up per say, I am saying that they should be under the same restrictions as the small stores in their respective location's.

Local stores where I am at that have been here for decades have been closed yet our Walmart is opened.

One must consider the good some of thes locals have done as well. Many have employed fathers, grandfathers and no the current generation.

Walmart would survive these shutdowns far better than a small shop.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

The small mom and pop stores should have never been forced to close down. That's the governments fault.

[HansTwilight Retired ModeratorPE Gym Editor Member of the Month Jan 2017PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close HansTwilight]

The small mom and pop stores should have never been forced to close down. That's the governments fault.

They're trying to kill them off.

They're pushing Big Corp.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

The small mom and pop stores should have never been forced to close down. That's the governments fault.

Yes, this I agree with.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

They're trying to kill them off.

They're pushing Big Corp.

This is a direct result of the ABUSE of capitalism, the big fish can litigate their way into unfair advantage

[madyogi Moderator Member of the Month April 2020PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close madyogi]

This is a direct result of the ABUSE of capitalism, the big fish can litigate their way into unfair advantage

This is one I can get behind, though I wouldn't characterize it as "the ABUSE of capitalism." It seems to me it is the logical end result of unregulated capitalism. It's one of the pitfalls of having growth and profit as the basis of your incentive structure. Politicians get on board because they are power hungry and money == power/influence.

Furthmermore, when it comes to monopolies, US government antitrust policies changed dramatically in the eighties when the Consumer Wellfare Principle came into vogue. Basically, if it theoretically results in lower prices for the consumer, then it must be good, right?

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

This is one I can get behind, though I wouldn't characterize it as "the ABUSE of capitalism." It seems to me it is the logical end result of unregulated capitalism. It's one of the pitfalls of having growth and profit as the basis of your incentive structure. Politicians get on board because they are power hungry and money == power/influence.

Furthmermore, when it comes to monopolies, US government antitrust policies changed dramatically in the eighties when the Consumer Wellfare Principle came into vogue. Basically, if it theoretically results in lower prices for the consumer, then it must be good, right?

Well said.

I could have used the term unregulated which in a way is abuse or lack of proper governance