Is anyone else worried? (Covid Vaccine)

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

I believe we are getting a bit off topic.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

I believe we are getting a bit off topic.

And for the first time in years it's not my fault!!! Got to love it!

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Many of us feel the virus is economy driven.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Today on our local radio the stats were given on Covid.

The survival rate is 99.6% when all ages are factored in.

When is a pandemic a scamdemic?

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

It is a serious disease don't kid yourself. Yes most people survive but many of them feel pretty shitty for a while; some will feel like that for a month or longer. Limiting the spread just like we do for a cold and flu is important.

What is trying to be done is to protect the vulnerable. To medically impaired people a cold or flu is just as deadly although the media won't portray it that way; they are either lying stupid or both.

When you happen to believe that you the individual is responsible for yourself then you as a vulnerable individual should take precautions so that you yourself don't get sick. It should not be governments job to penalize the majority for the sake of a minority but that's the way it seems to go right now.
Why should a men's clothing store have to be closed because of covid? There is no reason. The owner keeps the place not crowded, mandates masks and can stay in business. No let's put him out of business because we have to protect a small minority; are they not capable of protecting themselves?

[madyogi Moderator Member of the Month April 2020PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close madyogi]

Today on our local radio the stats were given on Covid.

The survival rate is 99.6% when all ages are factored in.

Not sure what radio station you're listening to, but this just patently false. We've done the math on this thread already, but here it is again:

According to the CDC, there are 13,626,022 confirmed cases in the US and 269,763 Covid-related deaths. That is a 1.9% death rate, which means the survival rate is 98.1%. In comparison, the seasonal flu death rate is something like 0.1-0.2%, which is at least 10x less than Covid.

Now, if you're making the assertion that the numbers are wrong, that's fine, but in that case how are you suggesting we make any sense of the scale or danger of the thing at all? If, based on anecdotal evidence, you can say way fewer people have died, or way more people have been infected and not died, then others can say whatever they want to say based on anecdotal evidence they might have, and we are truly in a post-modern dystopia where everyone makes up their own numbers and nothing really means anything.

That said, is a 98% survival rate horrifying? No. However, given how easily the thing spreads, I'd just as soon limit the size of gatherings I attend and wear a mask when I have to be inside in crowded places. That doesn't seem like a major imposition to me, especially considering there are vaccines and improved theraputics coming online all the time and in relative short order.

It is a serious disease don't kid yourself. Yes most people survive but many of them feel pretty shitty for a while; some will feel like that for a month or longer. Limiting the spread just like we do for a cold and flu is important.

When you happen to believe that you the individual is responsible for yourself then you as a vulnerable individual should take precautions so that you yourself don't get sick. It should not be governments job to penalize the majority for the sake of a minority but that's the way it seems to go right now.
Why should a men's clothing store have to be closed because of covid? There is no reason. The owner keeps the place not crowded, mandates masks and can stay in business. No let's put him out of business because we have to protect a small minority; are they not capable of protecting themselves?

I can generally get behind this. Our state has been pretty reasonable, so this is essentially how we've handled the thing from the start, limited shutdowns, encouraging masks and smaller gatherings, etc.

I know many around these parts disagree about the efficacy of masks, but I happen to think it's pretty obvious they prevent the wearer from spewing as much nastiness (including the Covid) into their surrounding environment as they otherwise would. If that's the case, then it seems like a reasonable ask to have people wear masks when they're out and about to protect their neighbors during this time.

Many libertarians like to talk about the non-agression principle, which is basically like, my rights to freedom start to get sketchy when those rights infringe on your rights. For example, my right to take your shit is a crime, because it infringes on your right to own shit. My right to drive after a long night of drinking is a crime because it can potentially put you in danger, even if the likelihood you die from me driving drunk is near zero on the aggregate. To me, wearing a mask in crowded places is no different from not driving drunk. I honestly have a hard time understanding why it's such a big ask for some folks.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

My little bear friend here is a fault in otherwise good reasoning. You based your death rate calculations based on confirmed cases. The old rule in virology is the number of actual cases is 3 times the total confirmed cases and that estimate is conservative by nature.

[madyogi Moderator Member of the Month April 2020PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close madyogi]

My little bear friend here is a fault in otherwise good reasoning. You based your death rate calculations based on confirmed cases. The old rule in virology is the number of actual cases is 3 times the total confirmed cases and that estimate is conservative by nature.

I wouldn't deny there are more actual cases than confirmed cases, just as there are more homicides than reported homicides and more rapes than reported rapes. As to what the multiplier should be, I can't be sure.

So, does that make you an old school virologist?

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Old school yes; virologist well not really but I would say in general that dealing with human health and diseases has been my focus for about 40 years so I know a bit about it.

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

According to a study covering the period from July 1 through August 23 in the November Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report of the “questionable” CDC organization: after implementation of mask mandates in 24 Kansas counties, the increasing trend in COVID-19 incidence reversed. Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties, rates in mandated counties declined markedly after July 3, compared with those in nonmandated counties. Kansas counties that had mask mandates in place appear to have mitigated the transmission of COVID-19, whereas counties that did not have mask mandates continued to experience increases in cases.The findings in this report are consistent with declines in COVID-19 cases observed in 15 states and the District of Columbia, which mandated masks, compared with states that did not have mask mandates (7).

[madyogi Moderator Member of the Month April 2020PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close madyogi]

According to a study covering the period from July 1 through August 23 in the November Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report of the “questionable” CDC organization: after implementation of mask mandates in 24 Kansas counties, the increasing trend in COVID-19 incidence reversed. Although rates were considerably higher in mandated counties than in nonmandated counties, rates in mandated counties declined markedly after July 3, compared with those in nonmandated counties. Kansas counties that had mask mandates in place appear to have mitigated the transmission of COVID-19, whereas counties that did not have mask mandates continued to experience increases in cases.The findings in this report are consistent with declines in COVID-19 cases observed in 15 states and the District of Columbia, which mandated masks, compared with states that did not have mask mandates (7).

This doesn't surprise me, though I'd love to see a link (there wasn't one in your post).

I also suspect this is why Asian countries had an easier time containing the spread: widespread mask usage isn't seen as an affront to their freedom, and isn't highly unusual, so it wasn't a big deal for more people to wear them more often, but I don't have evidence to back that suspicion up.

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Masks; well I could go on for days about them having to have used them longer than most guys here have been alive.
People will bring up stats and studies to say this or that because the studies and stats were done with a purpose in mind.

You can tell me that once Iowa started wearing masks the transmission rate went down. Great! A mask mandate in an area or state tends to do one major thing; it scares people. Normal people when told they must wear a mask to go anywhere tend not to go anywhere as much as they did before the mandate. Now with less people out and about of course the transmission rate is lower.
Now will anyone do a study on human activity before a mask mandate and then after? Of course not; it doesn't fit the narrative. Besides it would actually be impossible to conduct such a study but what I see and what I know is that there is less activity in mandated areas......but only for a while. After a month or two and the transmission level goes lower human activity does increase because people have gotten over the fear. Oh the level will slowly rise again as it has done in many mask mandated areas. My state has a mandate and when first done the level dropped and funny now that we're all wearing masks here the level is rising.

Yogi you said a very insightful thing; you don't see the problem with wearing a mask when you're going into crowed areas as you go out and about. The key to preventing the spread is distance and duration. If you keep a distance and don't stay with one person or group too long you don't need to wear a mask; you will not have time enough or close enough proximity to actually attain the viral load you need to get sick. Somehow people thing if one covid virus cell enters your body you're dead. It doesn't work that way.

Now look at the harm mask do cause. How many of you throw away your mask the minute you get home and throw it in an outside garbage can? Not many; you guys will wear that mask until it looks like worms ate it. I see most masks hanging on rear view mirrors just incubating what you've been collecting on it over the last week. Then of course we'll take out hands and place a bacteria/virus ladden mask back on out face and of course what's on the mask is now on your hands. Now that we have covered our hands with whatever we have on our mask we'll go to the supermarket and touch everything there; sounds clean huh?

We were told to wear masks but we were never trained, never told the right protocols on use and disposal. Yes people put on a mask and think they're protected but they're not. There is one right way and a million wrong ways to use a mask.

I could go on and on but I won't. You want to stay safe? With or without a mask wash your hands often and remember distance and duration; that is the key.

[not2big Senior Super ModeratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close not2big]

The minimum infectious dose of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is unknown so far, but researchers suspect it is low. “The virus is spread through very, very casual interpersonal contact,” W. David Hardy, a professor of infectious disease at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Researchers suspect the loading dose is low? Are these the same people that told me not to wear a mask, that Americans need not be concerned with this virus, there is no proof of airborne transmission, that this virus will be no worse than a bad flu season, that staying indoors in close quarters was a good thing, that schools should be closed to protect our children; no thanks they have proved to me that instead of keeping their mouths shut until they know these things called "facts" they will simply say anything to get quoted. Links for each of these quotes by the experts will be available upon request or you can look it up.