The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

There's really no way to tell!

If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?

[stillwantmore Banned Find all posts View Profile Close stillwantmore]

There's really no way to tell!

If you had a lot of lig gains, you might have noticed a larger increase in BPEL than NBPEL. Did that ever happen?

No, I gained evenly in all length measurements.

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

No, I gained evenly in all length measurements.

Interesting. I'd have to presume that most of your gains didn't come from ligament gains then.

[stillwantmore Banned Find all posts View Profile Close stillwantmore]

Interesting. I'd have to presume that most of your gains didn't come from ligament gains then.

Hard to say. Again, like with the "LOT" theory...I just put my head down and did the hanging. I was mostly sore at two points. In the ligs...in the base area, and at the attachment points where the hanger was on my penis.

[Artman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Artman]

Electrical Muscle Stimulator

Here are my current thoughts on the subject of smooth muscle:

• For the penis to enlarge, the smooth muscle (cells and sinusoid spaces) must enlarge too. This is how I think penis enlargement takes place. I don't have the time to go into complete detail right now, and I won't for the next 1-3 months (another reason I gave my quick opinion in this thread), but I do plan on doing more research and writing a few "Internet" articles on the subject.

• Because the penis is compromised of 50 percent smooth muscle, and smooth muscle has a lot of the basic properties of skeletal muscle (the biceps, triceps, and all the other commonly known muscles), we can presume that it might react to stress the same way normal muscle does. Which is a no brainer for us all! What are we doing here? Exercising! Moreover, nearly every single guideline we have is based off body-building/exercising/weightlifting concepts in one way or another! Think about it -- Bib, presumably one of the biggest gainers (if we accept his claims as facts), used a weightlifting concept known as "progressive overload." Peter Dick, another big gainer uses a common weightlifting program known as "muscle confusion" (in which he keeps the muscles guessing). And now, more recently (thanks to guys like you [xeno], Shiver, MX, Modesto, Wadzilla, and many more) we are now realizing cyclic training using deconditioning breaks helps us keep the penis in a responsive state. And cycylic training is a very popular weightlifting principle (if not the biggest).

• Albeit, this doesn't particularly mean we can attribute the growth to smooth muscle growth -- but regardless, if the penis grows, the smooth muscle must grow too. The article I quoted above stated: less smooth muscle = higher chance of ED. Obviously this isn't the case for us PEers. Most of us report harder erections.

• Also, It is well documented that smooth muscle can grow due to stress. I have a whole book on the subject, in fact. It is called [u]
  Hypertrophic Response in Smooth Muscle[u], by Charles L. Seidel and Normal W. Weisbrodt. It appears this book has numerous scholarly articles on the growth of smooth muscle. Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084...Fencoding=UTF8

• I also think this can explain why PE gains are permanent (for the most part), opposed to traditional muscular growth gains. Think about it like this: the smooth muscle in the penis is exercised when we jelq, stretch, and incorporate other exercises. These exercises take the penis (and the smooth muscle) beyond it's normal threshold. But what is the normal threshold? An erection. Masturbation, sex, anything that involves an erection is exercise too! It's typically just not enough to cause growth. Therefore, after the gains are cemented, and we retire all we need to do to keep the gains is have frequent erections -- in which the erections are enough exercise to keep the gains. It is also well documented that as men get older, and they use their penis less, the smaller it becomes. Note: I don't have a reference for this off-hand.

All that being said, I hope it's enough reference for you, at least for now You'll have to wait a few months until I get some more time to completely divulge into the research again -- something I do love. I'm not sure if I'm on the right path with my smooth muscle theory, but there is one thing for certain: Guys like you, sparkyx, Shiver, Modesto, me, and countless other scientific minded PEers will figure it all out, sooner or later.

Based on the above smooth muscle theory I started reading whatever I could fine on smooth muscle in general. I believe that the various exercises where all doing here is causing the smooth muscle to contract and expand. Smooth muscle reacts normally by involuntary electrical signals from our nervous system. Meaning muscle contractions without our full control much different from muscle contractions produced when doing bicep curls.

This got me thinking what if were to use a TENS device "Transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation" the same devices physical therapy people use to simulate muscle contractions. I have found tests were this process has been done on humans for ED issues. I believe this would be a more presice way to know how much of a muscle workout we are applying to penises.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

Artman,

First off, thanks for your input and welcome to the Gym!!! Good first post!

Interesting concept and idea! From my research and understanding I believe that the smooth muscle growth than happens in the corpus cavernosa is a result of stress being placed on the cavernous tissues from increased (blood) pressure; either in volume, duration or both. In this hyper-stressed environment the body chemically stimulates a growth response to compensate for this change. It's similar to the body's ability to generate natural cardiac bypasses in persons with blockages (angiogenesis.)

It's hard to say whether or not the SM contractions stimulated by a TENS device would have the same effect. Are you speculating that the smooth muscle would contract the same way skeletal muscle would or is this supported by the studies you mentioned? Either way I would be interesting in reading them if you could post the link.


Thanks again and welcome aboard!!!


-Iguana

[Artman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Artman]

Artman,

First off, thanks for your input and welcome to the Gym!!! Good first post!

Interesting concept and idea! From my research and understanding I believe that the smooth muscle growth than happens in the corpus cavernosa is a result of stress being placed on the cavernous tissues from increased (blood) pressure; either in volume, duration or both. In this hyper-stressed environment the body chemically stimulates a growth response to compensate for this change. It's similar to the body's ability to generate natural cardiac bypasses in persons with blockages (angiogenesis.)

It's hard to say whether or not the SM contractions stimulated by a TENS device would have the same effect. Are you speculating that the smooth muscle would contract the same way skeletal muscle would or is this supported by the studies you mentioned? Either way I would be interesting in reading them if you could post the link.


Thanks again and welcome aboard!!!


-Iguana

Thanks for the welcome! Here is a link that I have read. That's pointing me in this direction.

SpringerLink - Journal Article
C. G. Stief1 http://www.springerlink.com/images/contact.gif, E. Weller2, T. Noack3, M. Djamilian1, M. Meschi1, M. Truss1 and U. Jonas1
(1) Department of Urology, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, D-30623 Hannover, Germany(2) Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Medizinische Hochschule Hannover, D-30623 Hannover, Germany(3) Department of Physiology, University of Marburg, Marburg, Germany

Summary Transcutaneous application of low-frequency electric current in the treatment of partially or temporarily denervated striated muscles is widely used to prevent or treat muscular atrophy. Due to the high regenerative capacity of smooth-muscle cells, this approach should be beneficial in the treatment of diseases with smooth-muscle degeneration due to partial denervation. Our study was done to evaluate the possible beneficial effect of transcutaneously applied low-frequency electric current on the corpus cavernosum penis in the treatment of erectile dysfunction. After a comprehensive workup, 21 patients with chronic erectile dysfunction (20/21 vasoactive nonresponders) received daily (3–5×20 min) transcutaneous functional electromyostimulation of the corpus cavernosum smooth muscles [FEMCC; zero-line symmetric impulses of trapezoid shape, 2-channel device with alternating stimulations; frequency (f), 10–20 Hz for channel I and 20–35 Hz for channel II; impulse duration (t i ), 100–150 http://www.springerlink.com/content/...xxlarge956.gifs; approx. 12 mA; rise time, 0.5 s; stimulation time, 5 s/channel; pause between stimulations, 0.5 s. In all, 4/21 patients (19%) regained full spontaneous erections and another 3/21 (14%) responded to vasoactive drugs after FEMCC. Overall, 14/21 were FEMCC failures, including 2 who subjectively http://www.springerlink.com/content/...xlarge8220.gifimproved.http://www.springerlink.com/content/...xlarge8221.gif In a similar group of patients who were evaluated during the same period but received no therapy, no spontaneous improvement in erectile functïon was observed. Our preliminary findings suggest that FEMCC is feasible and results in an improvement in erectile capacity in a significant number (33%) of patients. Further studies will be carried out to corroborate our results, to improve the stimulation parameters, and to evaluate the selection criteria for patients suitable for FEMCC.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I am just bumping this thread out for it be be renewed. This is definately one of the most fantastic threads I have ever read and it gives great insight to the formation and discussion of smooth muscle and theories on how it may be what is now the back bone of PE.
I would encourage any one looking to learn the basics of PE to read this thread.

[wtfcares Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wtfcares]

I found this thread because of BigO's bump, and like what i found. Interesting food for thought. Bump!

[Novajelqer Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Novajelqer]

Wow great thread. I wanted to comment with great minds and to mark myself a spot for historical purposes. I will be reading the book about smooth muscle, it fascinates me. Again thank you all for your thoughts,theories and contributions...keep them coming...lol...slight pun intended. I gained some length this quarter, will share stats in progress forum.

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

I was reading an interesting article on the Journal of Biological Chemistry website about smooth muscle cell growth. It appears that "mechanically stretching" of smooth muscle tissue can stimulate cell growth (both in the number of cells and the size of the cells).

Here is an excerpt from the article:

RESULTS

Mechanical Stretch of VSMCs Stimulates Cell Growth—VSMCs were mechanically stretched to stimulate cell growth. After 48 h of stretch, the cells exhibited a significant 5-fold increase in proliferating cell nuclear antigen expression when compared with non-stretched control cells (Fig. 1A). This would suggest that the stretched cells were actively entering the cell cycle. Cell counts confirmed that the cells were completing the cell cycle. There was a significant increase in cell number in a time-dependent manner as a function of the stretch stimulus (Fig. 1B). Both of these effects were blocked in the presence of a MAPK inhibitor PD98059 (Fig. 1, Aand B).Cell hypertrophy is another type of cell growth that may be stimulated by cell stretching. Cell hypertrophy was determined using the cytoplasmic probe calcein AM to measure total cell volume. Cells stimulated by stretching exhibited a significant increase in cell size compared with the non-stretched control group (Fig. 1C). This too was blocked in the presence of 1 μM PD98059. These results demonstrate that mechanical stretching is capable of inducing both hyperplasia and hypertrophy in the SMCs and that this appears to occur in an MAPK-dependent manner.

This could explain why PE works to increase penis size. We jelq, hang, stretch, pump, etc...which all, so some extent, stretch the cells of the smooth muscle tissue in the penis, which then induces the cells to create new cells and causes the cells to become larger.

Just an observation.

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

I tried to find out what "MAPK inhibitor PD98059" is and the scientific jargon I found was over my head. However, one article mentioned "etrogenic effects". So keeping estrogen low and testosterone high may help. But I am just speculating.

[bizkid Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bizkid]

Yes but they said 48 hours stretch. They couldn't pay me to sit there and stretch my penis for 48 hours, unless there was a 1 inch guarantee. :P

[Sean Jacobs Retired Moderator Member of the Month Dec 2012PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Sean Jacobs]

Yes but they said 48 hours stretch. They couldn't pay me to sit there and stretch my penis for 48 hours, unless there was a 1 inch guarantee. :P

I agree. But it is possible that any form of cell stretching could trigger hyperplasia and hypertrophy as long as it was consistent.

[bizkid Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bizkid]

Yes but isn't that already known? Isn't that what extenders do and research says? Maybe Im missing something. What I would like to know is what chemical compound could enhance the process.Maybe IGF, TB4 or MGF. Something that can increase cell proliferations and division.