The Penis (smooth) Muscle Theory

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

I notice you made some great additions to the summary. I added another paragraph myself. It is looking good.

Yea, I have a little free time so I'm trying to finish what we started last year. We almost have a good first draft going.

About the flaccid size point (one of the last ones), let's get down to the nitty gritty again. In this post, you go over what might happen to the flaccid size/erect size comparison due to PE. I think this is where we got side tracked. Let's forget about how the flaccid penis reacts due to PE for a second and consider the difference between growers and showers.

What do you think makes a shower a shower? Clearly his tunica isn't as flexible as a grower's tunica. But I'm thinking that might not be the only thing going on. From what we know, the more relaxed the smooth muscle, the bigger the penis is. If we think of it in terms of erection levels, a man at a 0 percent erection level is a clear grower. As his erection level rises, the smooth muscle relaxes more, and the penis gets bigger and bigger until he is semi-erect. Then it starts getting harder.

And a shower's corporal smooth muscle is relaxed much more than a grower's.

Or at least this is the way I'm seeing it. What about you? Why's a grower a grower and a shower a shower?

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

New point.

- Loss of gains when combined with weaker erections, especially loss of girth.
The theory: Let's go through the motions here. If the erection is hard, then that means the smooth muscle is relaxed enough to press against the tunica (and essentially create a suction so blood can't leave the penis). If the erection is weak, a few things could be happening . . . but it most often means the smooth muscle isn't relaxed enough to press against the tunica and cause an erection or there isn't enough smooth muscle to do so (The Penis as a Vascular Organ).

According to this new theory, when gains are made, two things can happen:

1. Both the tunica and the smooth muscle have to be pushed to a new limit
2. Either the tunica or the smooth muscle was already pushed to a new limit, and the other one "catches up" causing the gain

Similarly, when gains are lost, either both fall from their previous limit or just one does (either the tunica or the smooth muscle). If a loss of gains occurs in conjunction with weaker erections, then hypothetically the smooth muscle has decreased while the tunica has stayed the same - and thus the smooth muscle can't relax enough to press against the tunica. A loss of gains can occur in either short-term or long-term.

1. A short term loss of gains is a negative PI. It's caused by overtraining. We can assume that similar to skeletal muscle, when the smooth muscle is overtrained, it experiences fatigue and can't be pushed to the fullest - and thus can't sustain maximum erections.
2. Long term lost of gains due to taking a break or not cementing gains. If erections are weak, then presumably more tunica gains were cemented than smooth muscle gains (thus causing a gap and weaker erections).

Note: According to this theory, weak erections can get tricky real quick. If the tunica enlarges and the smooth muscle doesn't, this creates a "gap" that needs to be filled. This is where the theory gets tricky - are you experiencing weak erection because of muscle fatigue or because you need to catch your smooth muscle limit up to your tunica limit?

Further note: Perhaps a way to test this would be that if your penis is the same size when it's at its peak, then your smooth muscle didn't decrease (or become fatigued) and thus the tunica just enlarged. This might be hard to test, as if the smooth muscle can't relax enough to cut off blood from leaving the penis, then there is no way to reach the "peak."

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

If the erection is hard, then that means the smooth muscle is relaxed enough to press against the tunica (and essentially create a suction so blood can't leave the penis).

and thus the smooth muscle can't relax enough to press against the tunica

remek, would it be clearer to say the smooth muscle volume isn't sufficent to press firmly against the tunica?
If we say relaxed, it may imply there could be a biochemical problem imparing SM relaxation, like lack of nitric oxide.

Isn't it more of a SM volume issue than a lack of relaxation. I ask because I haven't had a chance to read your resource links. I may be missing something.

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

Here's just a random thought. One thing that's been bothering me is that although this theory - if proven accurate - has great applicable promises to it, it still leaves the PEer stuck in many instances. . . particularly the men who are at a plateau because they are focusing on one goal (i.e. just girth or just length).

For example, there's one guy who I've worked with over the past year who can't break a plaeau if his life depended on it. He's 9 X 5.5. He only wants girth at this point, as he's trying to make his penis more proportional. . . So he's only used girth exercises for a long time now (AKA smooth muscle exercises in this theory). In align with the theory, his erection strength is amazing - probably a 10 in a scale of 1 to 10. My guess is that he has to work on his tunica. I asked him to measure his BPFSL to BPEL ratio to provide more insight.

In any instance, If his BPFSL is close to his BPEL, then the theory would suggest that he needs to work on his tunica. . . or focus on length (the opposite of what he's been doing). This is great as it explains why he hasn't been gaining (he's been focusing on the wrong thing), but now what? He doesn't want anymore length. Will the focus on length help him with girth too, or will it only take him further away from his proportional-focused girth goal?

I'm not sure if there's a way to overcome this, but some current ideas might be:

• Spend 60 to 70 percent of efforts focusing on the limit (in this case the tunica) and 30 to 40 percent of the efforts focusing on the goal (in this case smooth muscle AKA girth)
• Focus on the tunica with some girth exercises as well. This is just an intuitive guess, but I think some girth exercises might focus on the tunica too. A big one is the O-bend/flaccid bend. It's a lot like the A-stretch, but it's known for acquiring girth. When I do the exercise, it feels as if it's hitting the tunica just as much if not more than the smooth muscle.

As an ending note, I'm going to talk to some other hard gainers over the next week and see if maybe they've been focusing on the wrong area as well.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

remek, if this theory holds water, I think it's going to create tons of questions. Like you had mentioned earlier, we will probably have to "unlearn" half of what we know. We are probably going to have to rethink almost everything. It may even require the creation of some new exercises.

In this guy's case, I think your second point is the key. He will need to stretch his tunica laterally somehow without stretching it longitudinally. I used to do these exercises I called "Hammerheads" which were basically a compression squeeze done at about a 70%-80% erection. They seemed to give great lateral expansion. Like the O-Bend, you feel these in the tunica much more than in the SM. His choice of exercises may be very slim but I think your last recommendation makes the most sense.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

We only have a few points left.

We're still kind of stuck on this point, unless you have some new ideas: Girth is greater when semi-erect than when erect.

Here's where we left off:

Any insight on the length size during this phenomenon would take care this point and solidify our reasoning. Do you remember if it was the same, or do you know of anyone who measured in this instance?

I tried taking some measurements for this point. It's very difficult to measure true length at 70-80% erection. It definitely measures shorter.
I think this one can chalked up to reshaping of the tunica.

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

Here's a PM I sent to Iguana of how "newbie gains" might be explained with this theory:

Newbie gains are usually:

1. Fairly quick (ranging from days to months)
2. Followed by a dramatic increase in hardness.

My guess is that newbie gains are largely a result of an increase in smooth muscle growth (causing the increase in hardness). This would make sense considering the smooth muscle is probably much easier to enlarge (actually, I'm guessing it's multiply for the smooth muscle cells) than the tunica is.

Anyway, I know we're excited about this - but let's not rush into posting this just yet. I want to put our best foot forward, and give our theory the best possible chance of success. In due time . . . they'll flock to our theory if its right regardless of whose posting or not https://www.pegym.com/forums/../images/smilies/wink.gif

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

Here's a post Iguana sent me about his experience and how it coincides with the theory:

Something interesting, when I started my decon break my BPFSL to BPEL difference was 3/8" and I had very poor EQ the entire time of my break. After about a 4 days on my new routine I was experiencing much improved EQ and even regained my losses.
When I measured my BPFSL - BPEL difference again. It was only 1/4."

Now, after 11 days, my BPFLS is starting to increase again and I am up to about 1/2" difference and.... my EQ is starting to go down again. I can't believe I am over-training. I am stretching 15 min a day, I'm up to 140 jelqs per day and wearing my PM (at the lowest tension) for 6 hours. Not quite a brutal routine. This week I will have completed 2 weeks on this routine. I think it is too stretch (tunica) oriented. Starting next week, I'm going to stop stretching and only focus on SM (jelqs, clamps, and pump.) It will be interesting to see if my EQ improves. So, I will be the first guinea pig to PE through a weak erection.

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

I tried taking some measurements for this point. It's very difficult to measure true length at 70-80% erection. It definitely measures shorter.
I think this one can chalked up to reshaping of the tunica.

Sounds good, we'll 86 it for now.

I used to do these exercises I called "Hammerheads" which were basically a compression squeeze done at about a 70%-80% erection. They seemed to give great lateral expansion. Like the O-Bend, you feel these in the tunica much more than in the SM. His choice of exercises may be very slim but I think your last recommendation makes the most sense.

Hammerheads, eh? Can you do me a favor and do a step-by-step of the exercise?

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

remek, would it be clearer to say the smooth muscle volume isn't sufficent to press firmly against the tunica?
If we say relaxed, it may imply there could be a biochemical problem imparing SM relaxation, like lack of nitric oxide.

Isn't it more of a SM volume issue than a lack of relaxation. I ask because I haven't had a chance to read your resource links. I may be missing something.

Yea, you're right on.

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

Iguana, I vote we throw this one out:

- Poor flaccid hang and/or turtling

The guy I was telling you about before has a great flaccid hang (a real grower) and his BPFSL/BPEL ratio and erection strength suggests that the tunica is limiting his gains. Plus, we were already unsure about this one to begin with.

[remek Founder Find all posts View Profile Close remek]

Iguana: We've established that a few exercises might hit the tunica for girth (o-bends, hammerheads, etc). What about the opposite? Have any ideas for length exercises that might hit the SM? Perhaps erect stretching?

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

Sounds good, we'll 86 it for now.
Hammerheads, eh? Can you do me a favor and do a step-by-step of the exercise?

This is probably not an new exercise; it was my incorrect interpretation of how to do a horse440s (they are similar.)
I started doing these early on for girth thinking I was doing a horse440 until I went back and re-read the directions.

Hammerhead Girth Exercise

1. Start with about 50-60% erection.
2. Place right hand around base and clamp off like a tourniquet.
3. Form an "OK" grip with forefinger and thumb of left hand.
4. Slide OK grip over glans with thumb and forefinger closest to body - left hand is facing opposite of right.
(If you pushed your hands together your thumbs and forefingers would touch)
(It looks like your inverted fist is hammering the your glans, hence the name)
5. Tighten OK grip and push entire penis back as if you were trying to touch both hands together.
6. Hold at maximum expansion
7. Repeat

Imagine gripping a long balloon with both hands and then pushing it together to force air into the center.
As your hands get closer together, your penis will be expand and be forced out in the middle.
When you get the technique down you can move the both hands up and down the shaft to target different areas.

CAUTION: This is an advanced exercise that creates a lot of internal pressure! Ease off if it hurts. Don't rupture anything!
Do not do this exercise if you are a newbie! You will get injured.

I hope this is clear. Please feel free to post any questions.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

Iguana, I vote we throw this one out:

The guy I was telling you about before has a great flaccid hang (a real grower) and his BPFSL/BPEL ratio and erection strength suggests that the tunica is limiting his gains. Plus, we were already unsure about this one to begin with.

I agree. This can be revisited if necessary.

[Iguana Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Iguana]

Iguana: We've established that a few exercises might hit the tunica for girth (o-bends, hammerheads, etc). What about the opposite? Have any ideas for length exercises that might hit the SM? Perhaps erect stretching?

Wow, this is a hard one. This is probably the least targeted tissue exercise of them all. I have never tried erect stretching.
Do you know of anyone who has? Flaccid stretching probably hits the SM to a degree but there has to be something that would be more effective. I was thinking maybe narrow cylinder pumping? There is still a huge debate over whether or not pumping affects the tunica or SM. Jelqing would have to have some effect. Lots of guys claim to have gained length from it.