Skeptic looking for proof

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

I hope you took good accurate pictures before you started or else no one will believe you! How silly!

It certainly is silly to expect everyone to have perfect pictures before and after PE, but I can't help but agreeing that it is a bit strange that almost no one has a picture with a ruler showing any amount of gain over time. Captain Planet posted some, and Saiyan has been documenting his growth well, but aside from those two sources, hard evidence is unusually hard to come by. As for myself, I had pictures, but stupidly erased them from my phone thinking I had transferred them to my computer. Didn't have a ruler though, I'm not one of those people that can take a picture and measure while keeping an ideal erection. I just wish there were more people that were.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

When I started this 3 years ago I never thought it would help me and never occured to me to take a picture so I would have proof to show someone. Why would I want to show someone a picture of my dick? It's not exactly the type of thing you bring up at parties is it? That's how most guys got started. By the time they realized that it looked bigger well it's already to late for starting pictures so why take them now. You do pe for you; not to go and try to prove to the world that it works.

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

Seems to me that's why the pictures that were posted were from Thunder's Place, seems like that's more of a "look what I've got" sort of place. Good to have them though.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Okay old German war plane ( it was easier than spelling Messer.....), how about you become the proof.You're still new at this and haven't had time for much in the way of gains. Take some photos, load them up here, keep faithful to a routine for 6 months, then take some more and send them in.You could be the shinning proof that when done correctly the pe works. They could be talking about you years after we're dead and gone. How about it?

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

Okay old German war plane ( it was easier than spelling Messer.....), how about you become the proof.You're still new at this and haven't had time for much in the way of gains. Take some photos, load them up here, keep faithful to a routine for 6 months, then take some more and send them in.You could be the shinning proof that when done correctly the pe works. They could be talking about you years after we're dead and gone. How about it?

Actually it's based on this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Xaver_Messerschmidt

But you can call me Messy, and if you don't want to do that, call me Methuselah, though that doesn't really make things any easier.

While I don't know if I have 6 months in me (on my 4th month now, if I don't see any gains by May, I'm not sure if I can continue on) but I might just do that. I don't finish until the end of May anyhow. Like I said, I don't know if I'll be able to measure and take a picture at the same time and do myself justice in terms of EQ, but I will try and post the results if I can.

[Closed039 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Closed039]

Like I said, I don't know if I'll be able to measure and take a picture at the same time and do myself justice in terms of EQ, but I will try and post the results if I can.

????

You fit right into our "cult!" Welcome!

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

????

You fit right into our "cult!" Welcome!

Well I'd have to be insane to take a picture with a ruler when I wasn't at my best, that's just madness.

[Pirate Retired AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Pirate]

Hindsight is, of course, 20/20, but I did not even think to document my starting stats for a variety of reasons:
1) It took me a while to learn to measure consistently.
2) I got involved here for EQ reasons and was unconcerned with size gains.
3) I had no expectation of size gains.
4) I had no expectation of becoming nearly as involved as I have.
PE has been just one pleasant surprise after another for me.
YARRRR!!!!!!!!!!

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

Why not start taking pictures now though? You won't be able to show definitive proof of your growth from when you began, but at least we have more solid evidence that growth does occur.

I understand the "if they're serious they'll do it, if not screw 'em" point, but I think there are people that seriously want to do this, but just can't or won't commit the time without solid proof that gains are possible.

[darinsixpack Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close darinsixpack]

Why not start taking pictures now though? You won't be able to show definitive proof of your growth from when you began, but at least we have more solid evidence that growth does occur.

I understand the "if they're serious they'll do it, if not screw 'em" point, but I think there are people that seriously want to do this, but just can't or won't commit the time without solid proof that gains are possible.

I'll admit I'm skeptical. However, this is my game plan. I'm going to do this 100% faithfully and not skip any steps for 6 months. If in that time, I see a minimum of a 1/4" length gain, then I'll keep at it. If I don't, then I'll drop it and live with what I got. I for one, would be fully willing to do this daily 30-45 minutes a day for a freakin year if it meant a 1/2". I hate being just 6 inches! One thing about me, is I'm very "matter of fact" type personality and will not hype, lie to myself, or inflate my results. There is not point. Either this works, or it doesn't. Judging from all the stuff I've read all over the web, it does work for many. And for some it doesn't. There are even SOME medical professionals out there that agree, there might be something to all this if done properly.

My biggest fear is fucking up my dick, cause honestly what I got works well and I'm able to please the women I've been with. However, I still want size for myself. I hate fucking doubting myself when the pants come off. I want that confidense and for me that's what it's all about. Cause truth be told, I've never laid with a woman, who I've not made cum multiple times. But still, it' not good enough for me.......

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

I still have yet to see any serious injuries arise out of doing a beginner routine with a reasonable amount of grip and not adding anything else. Your gains might be good or they might be minimal, but I think the risk really is quite low if you're responsible.

[aidan784 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close aidan784]

Seriously a LOT of pics (in fact most) usually still are met with skepticism and shouts of 'photoshop' are common.

Most people won't accept pictures showing less than say an inch or so because they dismiss it as an EQ increase or pushing into the fatpad more.

But despite my reasons for not starting to document progress with pictures I have actually started to do so (unfortunately 1 inch+ too late in terms of before pictures).

I'm ready to accept some criticism if I post pictures (because you'll always get that), but I understand that for some they can be truly hurt when they are called a liar because of their pictures.

That said I hope mine are of some use if I show gains from 7 to 8+

Darin- Usually you'll find that the SOME doctors who recommend and recognise PE are the ones who have actually TRIED it.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Beginners hurt themselves all the time because they want gains yesterday. I hope you guys don't think I'm being argumentative about the whole thing but think about it, how many of you took pictures and accurate ones when you first started. It's just not something that most guys will do. One thing I do remember well about pictures is that no matter where you store them sooner or later someone will find it and those expalnations are fun to try to come up with!

[Messerschmidt Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Messerschmidt]

There will always be people claiming photoshop fakery whenever something has to be confirmed by photos, but I think the people that do that are the people that are actively trying to dismiss the merits of PE. In that case, the "screw 'em" attitude I think is rather justified, but I think having pictures of progress will help those people that do want to believe but just haven't seen the evidence.

As for small gains not being compelling proof, I think that is somewhat true for gains under .5". Anything under that could be an EQ increase or pushing further into the fatpad, but anything above that would be pretty good evidence, an increase of >.5" due to increased EQ or getting closer to the bone should be pretty easy to spot. Just getting more pictures out there showing any amount of growth would be good, just so it's not a few pictures floating around and everyone else just making claims.

Beginners hurt themselves all the time because they want gains yesterday. I hope you guys don't think I'm being argumentative about the whole thing but think about it, how many of you took pictures and accurate ones when you first started. It's just not something that most guys will do. One thing I do remember well about pictures is that no matter where you store them sooner or later someone will find it and those expalnations are fun to try to come up with

I think the problem arises when the person gets the impression that no one has done this. Yes, most people aren't going to have a picture from when they first started showing the exact same EQ and measured in the exact same way, but some should. Some people have tried to take a scientific approach to prove whether this works or not, you would think some of them would take rigorous measurements. The issue isn't that everyone isn't taking progress pictures, it's that Saiyan's were the only ones I had seen before seeing what Captain Planet posted. Someone that frequents these forums less could easily get the impression that no such pictures exist, which can be demoralizing.

[Big Al AdministratorPEGym EditorMale Enhancement Coach Rep.PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Big Al]

It appears to be that time of year again- a time for the die-hard skeptics* to come out of the wood works to "debate" whether or not a penis can be enlarged, or to warn us full grown men against the dangers of experimenting with exercises

PE does requires dedication and and personal experimentation, and my observations have told me that in almost every case of significant gains the trainee's attitude and motivation were just as important as his actual training (usually even more so). To those of you that aren't willing to do this, do not expect much if anything in the way of results.

It's easy to understand the importance of good references, pics, etc., but it's also easy to fall prey to the mentality that one NEEDS these things (and in abundance) in order for something to be true. Quite a few pics, journals, and even scientific references do now exist that supports PE. There are some listed on this forum, and plenty more to be found on other forums and across the net if you take the time to search.

If you can understand that these exercises can be performed safely and effectively if you use a little common sense, there's no excuse for not trying.

For those of you that would rather debate than learn or try- how much easier would it be to devote that energy and time to actual learning and training One thing is pretty sure- sitting here debating PE won't do a thing for your penis.

Finally...

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

-Buddha


*There's nothing wrong with being skeptical- on the contrary- it's the mark of a good scientist. You do have to have a mind open enough to allow for all of the data and to do your own experimentation though. For things like PE, approaching it from a logically neutral standpoint should give you the best results.