Committed to improvement

[WillGetBetter Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close WillGetBetter]

I dont know my friend. I think i have to give this a little bit more time, my body cant change a habbit that i am doing wrong almost 30 years in 1 month...
hard work pays off!

To your story, when i read your lines, i think u had the feeling "i can do it, i dont have to rk an all the things u have done the last times" my friend we are not so far in our progress. we have to go babysteps. do it exact like the times before just to get used to it. breathe, rk, do it slowly... do not rush these things..

Yeah, I hear you. There are a lot of things going on - deep, engrained habits. Each time I think I’ve figured it out, I realize there is something else to learn.

We should stay positive and keep a learners mind. Good luck with everything.

[WillGetBetter Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close WillGetBetter]

Hey WGB, sent you a PM after you sent me a visitor message. You are welcome to copy/paste it here to your thread that it may help others. If my message was still vague, continue to ask questions. There is a way to fight through the PONR, but everyone is different. So what works for me, may not work for someone else. Personally I never kegel or Rkegel to ward off the PONR, instead, I let the PF go neutral as if it isn't there. This prevents IK's and the start of ejaculation. But takes practice to achieve this. Keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks for the advice and the offer to post it here:

Hey my friend, thank you for reaching out by visitor message to inquire more about edging. So, here is my take on edging...

I've said you have to really push the PONR hard for one reason. If you don't, then you are not learning anything other than how to maintain an erection for a length of time. If you practice start/stop every time you reach the PONR then that is what you are teaching yourself - to stop. But pushing the limits of PONR and being able to last a little longer each time will definitely teach you the ins and outs of what triggers your arousal.

I really can not tell you how to push through the PONR, it is something that you are going to have to experiment with. But what you want to do is feel for the first signs of going over the top and try different things. Change grip, slow down, breath deeply to relax and for me, it is having my pelvic floor drop out to total neutral as if it isn't there. Trust me brother, even when you got it, you still will blow an early load sometimes during actual sex - sometimes the sex is that good. I make sure I tell my wife if I blow early that she was awesome so much that I couldn't control myself. She loves and takes it as a compliment - sort of pats herself on the back.

So, like I have said before, push the PONR hard, try different things to get past it. You will fail many times until it gets better, but practice you must. Then you have to take what you have learned and apply it to sex, so it is like starting all over, but at least you have some things to try in your pocket that should make the learning curve shorter.

Truth is, when I enter the wife, I always go slowly, make sure I am in control before I begin thrusting. That momentary collection of my concentration and thoughts really makes the difference.

Have confidence, patience, and determination - I look forward to reading your success thread on this topic in the near future.

ZZ

[WillGetBetter Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close WillGetBetter]

Little update - prior to edging tonight I got an erection then just let it go down, took 1 minute 20 seconds. I found myself doing RKs without even thinking about it so just tried to do nothing. After I got my erection back and tried holding an RK, took 1 minute 14 to go. So basically the same time. Obviously RKs aren't working in this regard for me.

I edged after and was at the PONR pretty quickly and found it really hard to get into any form of rhythm (constantly hitting the PONR) I then got a pain in my penis (not sure if from over exertion of trying to RK all day every day)

Also when I'm erect my pelvic floor is enlarged and so tense. trying to RK brings it down slightly but nowhere near to when I'm not erect, when my pelvis floor feels relatively soft.

Ordered some tennis balls so going to get on the tennis ball massage. I just place it between my balls/anus and sit on it right?

I’ve been thinking about your situation a bit and am trying to figure out if I can help. I’m new at this too, so I don’t have years of experience to pull ideas and understanding from.

I’ve been struggling a bit with my RKs recently. It seemed like for a while, I was doing them without problem. But in the last two weeks I have had some issues. When I can’t do a RK, it feels like my pelvic floor is a rock or a wall. I try to push up against it (by doing a RK - which feels like I am inflating the pelvic floor when done right), but it doesn’t inflate. It holds stiff like pushing a wall.

The best position for me to do a RK is sitting in a chair with bad posture so my lower back is rounded. Then I do the RK motion and I feel the inflation.

If I cannot do a RK, then I cycle through all my stretches until I find the one that helps. Usually, for me, it’s happy baby pose or cobra. Then I try again - and I can feel the inflation of my pelvic floor.

Your edging sessions sound good. I think you’re training your body to feel the intense feelings. How’s your breathing coming? How often are you letting yourself ejaculate. Last we I got caught up on the pleasure of the edging experience and I came 5 days in a row just from edging. I think that really set me back. I’m going to go back to the 3 or 4 days between ejaculating.

Keep going. I think you’re making progress!

[TheR Member Find all posts View Profile Close TheR]

I’ve been thinking about your situation a bit and am trying to figure out if I can help. I’m new at this too, so I don’t have years of experience to pull ideas and understanding from.

I’ve been struggling a bit with my RKs recently. It seemed like for a while, I was doing them without problem. But in the last two weeks I have had some issues. When I can’t do a RK, it feels like my pelvic floor is a rock or a wall. I try to push up against it (by doing a RK - which feels like I am inflating the pelvic floor when done right), but it doesn’t inflate. It holds stiff like pushing a wall.

The best position for me to do a RK is sitting in a chair with bad posture so my lower back is rounded. Then I do the RK motion and I feel the inflation.

If I cannot do a RK, then I cycle through all my stretches until I find the one that helps. Usually, for me, it’s happy baby pose or cobra. Then I try again - and I can feel the inflation of my pelvic floor.

Your edging sessions sound good. I think you’re training your body to feel the intense feelings. How’s your breathing coming? How often are you letting yourself ejaculate. Last we I got caught up on the pleasure of the edging experience and I came 5 days in a row just from edging. I think that really set me back. I’m going to go back to the 3 or 4 days between ejaculating.

Keep going. I think you’re making progress!

Thanks for thinking about my situation man, I know everyone has enough on their plate trying to sort their own situation out, so appreciate it!

The confusing thing I find out front RKs is people say its just like trying to urinate faster. I can urinate faster no problem, and I can replicate the sensation of trying to start the flow of urine, which in essence is a front RK. However, I can't do this without also doing a back RK and ballooning my anus out. I also feel absolutely nothing in between my balls and anus which I guess is the main area you want to balloon out.

When I read about people saying they feel their pelvic floor 'relax' or 'pop out' or go 'mega loose' I have never felt any sort of feeling like that. Maybe I'm just being impatient and need to carry on with it. I'll continue with the RKs the way I'm doing it and hope I can isolate the front and work on loosening the pelvic floor over time.

Edging sessions are going well, if I take it slow. I still struggle with breathing but I'm doing better than I was so thats progress. I've also had sex a couple of times and no real progress yet but trying to take it slow. I am only ejaculating every 3 edging sessions.

I'll keep at it!

[Aethelwulf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Aethelwulf]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already.. But I learnt recently that 'relaxing' you pelvic floor, and performing RK are actually two different things. Reverse kegels actually strengthen the BC muscle, which I'm guessing relaxes the PC muscle as a result.

Yoga poses like these actually 'truly' relax the whole pelvic floor.. Especially the Hindi squat apparently. I've seen the most benefit from starting these!

[WillGetBetter Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close WillGetBetter]

@TheR

I’ve had more challenges with RKs this week than when I first started 6 weeks ago. I think I’ve mosly figured out the issue, but there are times and certain positions where I cannot RK. The issue I’ve had this week is that I’m trying to hard to force a RK. Instead of letting go (letting my pelvic floor relax) and then “pushing” slightly to inflate my pelvic floor- I have been trying to push too hard and the whole pelvic floor tightens up and I can get a RK to happen. It’s almost like I need to let go (not do anything- don’t contract any muscles), breathe into my belly, and then push slightly to inflate. If I try too hard, I end up tightening instead of expanding.

[WillGetBetter Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close WillGetBetter]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already.. But I learnt recently that 'relaxing' you pelvic floor, and performing RK are actually two different things. Reverse kegels actually strengthen the BC muscle, which I'm guessing relaxes the PC muscle as a result.

Yoga poses like these actually 'truly' relax the whole pelvic floor.. Especially the Hindi squat apparently. I've seen the most benefit from starting these!

I hadn’t heard that before. I’m definitely not an expert on it, so I can’t comment on the anatomy or the muscle functionality or engagement. It seems like RKing is related to relaxation of something because: kegels stops urine flow, reverse kegels allow or increases urine flow. But, maybe what you’re saying about the BC/PC muscles is how that happens. For me, the RKs reduce the strength/pressure of my erection and seems to help to lower or stabilize my arousal.

So, do you think you can actively relax your pelvic floor? Or, do you just stretch it - and then it is loose?

[WillGetBetter Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2018 Find all posts View Profile Close WillGetBetter]

I’m not sure if the rules allow for putting a link in a thread, but here’s an awesome set of pelvic floor stretches:

https://youtu.be/ntP8eQY74Cw

[Aethelwulf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Aethelwulf]

I hadn’t heard that before. I’m definitely not an expert on it, so I can’t comment on the anatomy or the muscle functionality or engagement. It seems like RKing is related to relaxation of something because: kegels stops urine flow, reverse kegels allow or increases urine flow. But, maybe what you’re saying about the BC/PC muscles is how that happens. For me, the RKs reduce the strength/pressure of my erection and seems to help to lower or stabilize my arousal.

So, do you think you can actively relax your pelvic floor? Or, do you just stretch it - and then it is loose?

Aye, kegeling is what stops urine flow and is what holds your bladder closed. However RK's are what create force. Urine can be released when your pelvic floor is simply in a neutral state. This is where the misconception comes in; because most believe that a reverse kegel is the relaxing of the PC muscle, when it's actually the contraction of another muscle.. The BC. So performing RK's to relax the pelvic floor is actually wrong, as it's just another form of contraction.

This is as far as my knowledge goes though.. I don't know why exactly performing RK's stabilises arousal. I've wondered that myself. All I know is that anything that stretches the pelvic floor counteracts tightness. I think it requires a bit of conditioning. If you've had a chronically tight pelvic floor for a long time like I have for example, then you've got to incorporate it into a routine until you see results. It wouldn't happen immediately, but I don't think it would take a ridiculous amount of time either though!

[Cephalus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cephalus]

Aye, kegeling is what stops urine flow and is what holds your bladder closed. However RK's are what create force. Urine can be released when your pelvic floor is simply in a neutral state. This is where the misconception comes in; because most believe that a reverse kegel is the relaxing of the PC muscle, when it's actually the contraction of another muscle.. The BC. So performing RK's to relax the pelvic floor is actually wrong, as it's just another form of contraction.

This is as far as my knowledge goes though.. I don't know why exactly performing RK's stabilises arousal. I've wondered that myself. All I know is that anything that stretches the pelvic floor counteracts tightness. I think it requires a bit of conditioning. If you've had a chronically tight pelvic floor for a long time like I have for example, then you've got to incorporate it into a routine until you see results. It wouldn't happen immediately, but I don't think it would take a ridiculous amount of time either though!

The information you're stating about reverse kegels is wrong and even confusing to new users.
It has been established on the forum (since 2010) by veterans in pre-e training like Pegasus and Imac that Rk's are a stretch of the pelvic floor muscles. Therefore, the front Rk is a stretch in the BC muscle.

If that's as far as your knowledge goes (as you yourself said) then spend more time reading valuable threads on the forum correctly and stop posting nonsense.

[Aethelwulf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Aethelwulf]

The information you're stating about reverse kegels is wrong and even confusing to new users.
It has been established on the forum (since 2010) by veterans in pre-e training like Pegasus and Imac that Rk's are a stretch of the pelvic floor muscles. Therefore, the front Rk is a stretch in the BC muscle.

If that's as far as your knowledge goes (as you yourself said) then spend more time reading valuable threads on the forum correctly and stop posting nonsense.

It was something Big Al told me through email dude. Not saying he's unconditionally correct, but I'd like to think he knows what he's talking about.. And it made sense logically to me. I know everyone seems to think an RK is a stretch, but I'll believe otherwise. The way I envision it, is if you push your arm against a wall, even though you're not squeezing like you would akin to a kegel.. Your arm is still under tension and contraction. That's what an RK is. 'Stretching' is the lengthening of an object, in this context a muscle.. So in a Hindi squat for example, you expand your whole pelvic floor considerably, lengthening the contracted muscles. A RK doesn't lengthen your BC muscle. Furthermore, you can't create force with a muscle without it contracting? A RK might be called a 'stretch', but it's not by definition.

In all honesty, my advice was pretty sound. Perform kegels and reverse kegels as part of a normal stamina routine.. Strengthen both the PC and BC muscles for balance. But include pelvic stretches through yoga as a way of truly stretching and relaxing the pelvic floor. So I'll bite my tongue at your condescending attitude.

You know, I will say this. There is little data in this field to draw from. Most of it is personal experience and what little data others give of their own expereince full of biases and individual differences. If this was a professional research experiment, there would be numerous problems with validity and efficacy. We're basically still in the infancy of research. With all due respect to those people you mentioned, I'm well aware they have a good knowledge of the subject. And I truest what they say for the most part. But you shouldn't treat anyone's word as gospel. Things can be wrong, things can change. This scenario is not the same as picking up a text book on human anatomy, perfected through decades of work. People are still discovering things that work for them, and no one else.. And people still don't know why. It's just a load of people with opinions. Basically, think for yourself a bit. Allow your perspective of things to be lucid.

[TheR Member Find all posts View Profile Close TheR]

Had an edging session yesterday afternoon which I struggled with, even taking it really slow I was at the PONR within 2 minutes and constantly after that. Managed to go 11 minutes last week by taking it really slow.

Ended up having sex with my girlfriend later in the evening. After plenty of foreplay (during which I was trying to remember to try and RK) she got on top of me and I struggled to insert as I was at like a 60-70% erection. I get aroused mega easy so to be in this position prior to sex is an unknown for me. It seems to give me a bit of confidence that my RKs are working.

Recently my left glute is mega tense all the time, almost feels like I've pulled the muscle, not sure if this is a consequence of RKs or Squats or what?

[Cephalus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cephalus]

Had an edging session yesterday afternoon which I struggled with, even taking it really slow I was at the PONR within 2 minutes and constantly after that. Managed to go 11 minutes last week by taking it really slow.

Ended up having sex with my girlfriend later in the evening. After plenty of foreplay (during which I was trying to remember to try and RK) she got on top of me and I struggled to insert as I was at like a 60-70% erection. I get aroused mega easy so to be in this position prior to sex is an unknown for me. It seems to give me a bit of confidence that my RKs are working.

Recently my left glute is mega tense all the time, almost feels like I've pulled the muscle, not sure if this is a consequence of RKs or Squats or what?

Decreased EQ is linked to RK training (reported by a lot of users on the forum). That might be it.

Regarding your left glute: I'm not certain, but it's definitely not because of the RK's (try not to strain while doing them). How is your Hindi Squat ?

[Cephalus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cephalus]

It was something Big Al told me through email dude. Not saying he's unconditionally correct, but I'd like to think he knows what he's talking about.. And it made sense logically to me. I know everyone seems to think an RK is a stretch, but I'll believe otherwise. The way I envision it, is if you push your arm against a wall, even though you're not squeezing like you would akin to a kegel.. Your arm is still under tension and contraction. That's what an RK is. 'Stretching' is the lengthening of an object, in this context a muscle.. So in a Hindi squat for example, you expand your whole pelvic floor considerably, lengthening the contracted muscles. A RK doesn't lengthen your BC muscle. Furthermore, you can't create force with a muscle without it contracting? A RK might be called a 'stretch', but it's not by definition.

In all honesty, my advice was pretty sound. Perform kegels and reverse kegels as part of a normal stamina routine.. Strengthen both the PC and BC muscles for balance. But include pelvic stretches through yoga as a way of truly stretching and relaxing the pelvic floor. So I'll bite my tongue at your condescending attitude.

You know, I will say this. There is little data in this field to draw from. Most of it is personal experience and what little data others give of their own expereince full of biases and individual differences. If this was a professional research experiment, there would be numerous problems with validity and efficacy. We're basically still in the infancy of research. With all due respect to those people you mentioned, I'm well aware they have a good knowledge of the subject. And I truest what they say for the most part. But you shouldn't treat anyone's word as gospel. Things can be wrong, things can change. This scenario is not the same as picking up a text book on human anatomy, perfected through decades of work. People are still discovering things that work for them, and no one else.. And people still don't know why. It's just a load of people with opinions. Basically, think for yourself a bit. Allow your perspective of things to be lucid.

First off, I must admit that you articulate your thoughts very well and that you posses a rich vocabulary. Good.

Sorry for jacking your thread, Willgetbetter, but this is my last reply on this thread for Snow. I must make sure that every user who reads this small dispute of ours knows both sides of the coin and thinks twice before doing what a unknown user states as ultimate truth.

The arm against the wall analogy is incorrectly applied here. The pelvic floor is far, far more complex than your arm. In the pelvic area, all the muscles surrounding it work in harmony (or not if there is dysfunction), like the glutes, hamstrings, abdominals etc. By applying pressure with your abdominals you CAN stretch the BC muscle. Veterans more knowledgeable than you and I put together have agreed on this. Go pick up a book or two about the pf. (Amy Stein is a good starting point)

Your advice was pretty sound ? ,,So performing RK's to relax the pelvic floor is actually wrong, as it's just another form of contraction''. Man, please. That's a whole lot of wrong encapsulated in one sentence.

You're going against a decade of tried and tested pelvic floor balance exercises regarding the RK. Many like you also did this, but they lost credibility very soon. A lot of users did RK's and they worked, almost all of them reporting the ,,stretch'' effect they have. I guess then that dozens of users are wrong and one unknown guy is right. That must be it...

Even worse, although I think you didn't even bother to fully read the stickies, you come here stating wrong info as fact: ,, This is where the misconception comes in; because most believe that a reverse kegel is the relaxing of the PC muscle, when it's actually the contraction of another muscle.. The BC''.

Yes, research for pelvic floor dysfunctions is, sadly, underdeveloped. But anecdotal evidence is still evidence. I do think for myself and I'm not taking people's words as gospel. I researched the problem myself before landing on PEGYM. I read all I could about pelvic floor balance and didn't immediately believe this theory until I saw the results myself.

You may have good writing skills, but you're way over your head.
Do yourself a favor keep to things you actually know.

Cheers.

[TheR Member Find all posts View Profile Close TheR]

Decreased EQ is linked to RK training (reported by a lot of users on the forum). That might be it.

Regarding your left glute: I'm not certain, but it's definitely not because of the RK's (try not to strain while doing them). How is your Hindi Squat ?

My Hindi squat technique is good (I think) I can get really low into it (helps that I squat in the gym I guess) and can press my knees out relatively far. However, I can't hold it for long because I get a real bad strain/pain in my groin/inner thigh so have to stand up and shake off. After a few squats I can't manage to do it again due to the uncomfort. Maybe I just need more practise.