Eliminating involuntary kegels

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

I actually find it hard to do kegel and reverse at the same time, I go crosseyed.
I have found, I can use reverse for mmo by using a pumping the brake type action. So instead of trying to stop everything in 1 contraction ,slow it over several. I can also use reverse k particularly for hard wave mmo.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Just gonna bump and say for those of you not following my story - for which I can't say I blame you - that working on total relaxation of the pelvic floor has done wonders for me in quite a short space of time, both solo when edging and duo with a partner, so hang on in there kids. If nothing else has worked, seriously consider trying this approach for a month or two and see how you get on.

much love and good luck all xxx

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

One would for example try to do a reverse kegel at the moment of the unscouncious kegel, other should try a kegel hold (1-3 seconds) every time the unconscious kegel happen, then a reverse kegel.

I've noted elsewhere (I really should be more organised) that I seem to have lost some ability to RK easily. I have been using kegel holds to relax by trying to magnify and swim in the sensation of relaxation when I release. This has proven remarkably successful, so thanks for the tip. I do this as a matter of course now as a means of arousal control throughout long edging sessions, and I found it both easy and effective during sex too.

"Wait till you come to the fun parts " - said Minuteman mysteriously.

I'm just picking up on this now because after having made so much progress with my PE I'm left with (presumably) a fairly well toned pelvic floor. If you don't count what I said up there about RKs anyway. As such I have started experimenting with DO/MMO things, as kegels are obviously fairly key to that.

I *think* I've been very close to soft wave mmo a couple of times now, but I can't sustain it. It happened the first time yesterday, and I managed to bring it on again today, but in both cases I got three or four rushes, each of increasing intensity, and then that was it. I had a 40 min session today and got the same thing after 20 minutes or so, then I couldn't bring it on again at all for the next 20 minutes until I finally blew.

The first time, yesterday I immediately got it into my head that that's what was happening and desperately tried to cling on to it, but the shift of concentration was probably to blame for me losing it. Today was different though, and I deliberately just tried to clear my mind and submit to it after Pegasus suggested that was necessary. Still no joy though, although the fourth wave/rush was extremely pleasurable, akin to the effect of MDMA, it stopped there and then just as I was thinking the next rush would probably double me up if it kept escalating.

Well, I'll keep trying anyway. Every step is progress, right?

As is my wont to try and do a hundred things at once, and since I've been doing kegel holds so much *during* edging, it seemed only natural to go for DO at the end too, but I'm either timing it wrong or doing it wrong since I'm not even close. I performed as hard a PC clench as I could (probably a bit of BC as well), but the only effect seemed to be to intensify the BC pumps of ejaculation. To be fair, I did shoot about 6ft into the air which was pretty cool, but that's hardly DO, lol.

[NakedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close NakedMan]

but I'm either timing it wrong or doing it wrong since I'm not even close. I performed as hard a PC clench as I could (probably a bit of BC as well), but the only effect seemed to be to intensify the BC pumps of ejaculation.

Your muscle strength is there but your timing is off. Based on your story,I guess you clenched it too late.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Can you help me out maybe. Any tips for identifying the moment I should clench?

There's a point where after I've been hovering around 90%+ arousal for a good while PONR suddenly escalates and I feel tight, maybe inflated in the two seconds or so before I blow. Not sure if that's past PONR or not as I've not been able to recover from that moment yet. But anyway, and in all honesty it's only in the last couple of weeks I've really recognised that feeling, as it used to all be wrapped up in the tingling sensations of high arousal and I couldn't separate them.

Nowadays, especially if edging I can tolerate that sort of high arousal much better so I'm hovering with the strong tingling sensation for a few minutes first and I recognise the change in feeling of impending orgasm well. I've basically been trying to clench immediately I feel that change of physical (rather than tingly) sensation and I'm always worried I'm not going to be able to hold it long enough, but what happens instead is that I do hold the clench but ejaculate anyway, and it's almost like the clench gets locked... hence, I suspect the powerful shooting.

I'm sure you're right that my timings off but hey maybe I am just not strong enough yet either so it'll come with practice.

Am I right in thinking it's PC/Root lock/arse I need to clench (to hit the prostate) rather than the BC/kegel/cock twitch one?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Try both standard kegels as a unit.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

I'll try that. the only annoying thing is that kegeling that hard I have to put almost my whole body into it (perhaps the problem?) which means I can't help making a mess. Does it always need to be that strong a clench or will better control allow me to be calmer about it?

[NakedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close NakedMan]

There's a point where after I've been hovering around 90%+ arousal for a good while PONR suddenly escalates and I feel tight, maybe inflated in the two seconds or so before I blow. Not sure if that's past PONR or not as I've not been able to recover from that moment yet.

Yes, that's it! It is key to know the PONR before it actually occurs. You have to feel that the PONR will occur in 3,2,1 seconds and the you clench the BC muscle, like 1 or 0.5 seconds before the PONR.

The inflation feeling is the loading of your gun You don't want your gun to be loaded, though.

Am I right in thinking it's PC/Root lock/arse I need to clench (to hit the prostate) rather than the BC/kegel/cock twitch one?

No, I use the other one (BC). They are linked anyway, but I definitely focus on clenching on the BC. I'll try to find out what I'm doing to my PC the next time.

And for me it was very important to be able to clench the BC muscle in isolation. Quite tough at first, but really important. If you clench the muscle in your thighs you will be distracted and won't notice the muscle tension in your BC muscle. Also: I open my eyes very wide and my whole body is still. So there's maximum attention on the BC muscle.

I suppose it's mostly about awareness for you right now. Noticing the inflation feeling was probably the key step.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Cool, thanks NM, It really helps to have that validated - everyone talks about PONR, but only ever as "that point" and hardly anyone really describes it. As I say, it's only recently I even picked up on it, so there ya go. I don't think all us fellas are that different after all.

I feel like I should be *ashamed* that I'm only noticing and learning this now.. 25 years after learning to masturbate. (hides)

[NakedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close NakedMan]

I feel like I should be *ashamed* that I'm only noticing and learning this now.. 25 years after learning to masturbate. (hides)

I only started noticing it after I read a book about MMO. After that I thought: How the **** did I miss that? And now it's obvious. So I guess that's a common experience.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Same with a lot of stuff here at gym, it seems obvious in hindsight.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Well I was edging for an hour this time, and noticed a couple of things. Really useful info above from NakedMan regarding PONR being the physical/inflation feeling rather than the nervous/sensitivity feeling, awareness of which let me carry on the whole time only having to stop once, and I caught that easily enough for it not to be a problem.

So I guess I've now gone from too late to too early as far as DO goes! But here's the thing, I was trying for soft wave, and while I didn't manage that I did have good control which was nice, and spent a long time in a very pleasant light orgasmic haze.

I've started reading Mantak Chia's The Multi-Orgasmic Man, which is an excellent book by the way, I was looking at this graph of arousal and started to get a little curious about a couple of things.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3906239/Mant...-Potential.gif

A couple of times I got *very* mild ejaculatory spasms as I floated around PONR, with a tiny amount of pre-cum. I don't know if this was a *very* mild DO, or just ripples from dancing around the edge, since I didn't kegel out of it, more I just eased up in time so it didn't *quite* take hold. Also, judging by the escalation in this graph, I certainly didn't move beyond a constant "this is very nice" feeling into full on rapturous orgasm, so I can't help feeling I never passed that first peak or took the fork, I only dropped back down again to that first half-way plateau coming up to the first peak on the diagram above.

Chia mentions that non-ejaculatory orgasms can be mild at first, but get stronger as you get better, so I'm not sure what I experienced really. it felt more like revving up for a long time, but never engaging the clutch.

So.. feeling pretty nice overall, but a little confused. I'm gonna try to get in an hour plus session every day now if i can anyway, so who knows how this will progress. it's a fun journey anyway .. thanks for listening

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Just picking up on something, reading back from how I was in early January. Not fishing for compliments, rather it's something to hopefully give you some confidence if you're stumbling on this thread some time in the future...

... I found I was able to keep involuntary kegels at bay as long as I avoided my frenulum

... As I got closer to my frenulum, I had a few mild involuntaries, though I found these were quite easy to shut down without having to RK. However I found it impossible to avoid or counter the strong involuntary kegels I had when stimulating my frenulum directly...

... So I will be continuing an RK heavy kegel routine for now, I'd like to see if this gives me more ability to stave off the involuntary kegs resulting from frenulum stimulation, and if not, I'll need to investigate ways of tackling that directly, because so far, even at fairly high levels of stimulation elsewhere on my John Thomas, I felt safe, and I'm fairly convinced that if I didn't have that one super sensitive response I could go for full penetrative sex with some degree of confidence.

It's now 8 weeks later, and my frenulum, which was a complete no-go area back in Jan is completely fair game now. No involuntary kegels *at all* pretty much all the way up to PONR, and penetrative sex was *fine*. If anything I'm wondering how involved my frenulum sensitivity was in my PE now. Either way it really is completely manageable now, and that's a *direct* result of kegels for overall pelvic floor strength and edging.

So get cracking, future readers, you know what to do!

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

You really can't force soft wave spanky. What are you confused about.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

You really can't force soft wave spanky. What are you confused about.

I'm not even sure any more, lol!

I think it's on reflection whilst reading Chia that I'm trying to figure out whether I had a *very* mild orgasm in this session that I can expect to improve dramatically with practice, or whether I just had a bit of a "fly-by" and I'm reading too much into it.

I don't *really* need answers to be fair, I'm just dumping my thoughts and am quite happy just to keep on exploring and see what happens next.