Eliminating involuntary kegels

[NakedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close NakedMan]

Bc

That's the one that's more towards the asshole. For me it's the other one (PC). Or am I confusing them again?

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

nope, your PC is the one that goes up to your ass - the BC is the one under your cock that helps you ejaculate.

I find sometimes an RK is good, and sometimes taking over with a kegel hold works better. It depends on my arousal level. I find RKs more effective at lower levels (and very high levels) of arousal, but kegel holds work best in between. Though that said, after six weeks of so of doing that, I don't have to bother any more. If I get them now (and it's RARE) then I'd hold it, like when you hold your breath to kill hiccups. That works/worked best for me.

[NakedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close NakedMan]

nope, your PC is the one that goes up to your ass - the BC is the one under your cock that helps you ejaculate.

Why am I always confusing them? i've gotta invent a mnemonic for that.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

probably 'cause loads of people do. Just don't fall into that trap that one book I read said, that it you squeeze your asshole you're doing it wrong. All the muscles down there benefit from a workout.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Everyone is so confused on pc/bc(including me) that I just say front and back.

[kidwithPEproblems Member Find all posts View Profile Close kidwithPEproblems]

A very good diagram to show the BC muscle and other muscles around the perenium can be seen here

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

probably 'cause loads of people do. Just don't fall into that trap that one book I read said, that it you squeeze your asshole you're doing it wrong. All the muscles down there benefit from a workout.

Actually, if you squeeze your asshole before you squeeze the muscle behind your balls you are doing it wrong, and while you might have a DO you probably wont be able to continue after it since some of the spasms (one of them actually triggers a refactory period) still occur, and for most this means that their will be unable to overcome a Do pitfall, or if their kegels are strong enough some might even have retro ejaculations.

For me the correct sequence would be holding the muscles behind your balls (a kegel) and if you don't have enough technique and strength then while holding a kegel hold/squesez the asshole (a root lock), and then if you still don't have enough strength the abs and legs (i.e toes downard etc.)

Most people by squeezing the asshole are also using all of their pelvic muscles, even those behind the balls, but it feels different, since you have to have a mighty good ability to isolate the muscles in order to preform a strong root lock hold without preforming a kegel.

The concept of the root lock is simmiliar to the concept of using the abs and leg muscles in order to intensify the effect of a kegel hold (bracing method).

So while I don't think that squeezing your anus is bad for DO it should come in second, not first. One of reasons i am so sure about this (but I could be wrong never the less) is because on the peak of my kegel strength and technique i was able to clean DO with just a kegel hold and nothing else, and it just feels right.

As for the pc and bc muscles, i know which is which, but i chose to refer to them by root lock (pc) and kegels (bc) respectively.

[moxsum Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close moxsum]

Actually, if you squeeze your asshole before you squeeze the muscle behind your balls you are doing it wrong, and while you might have a DO you probably wont be able to continue after it since some of the spasms (one of them actually triggers a refactory period)

A muscle contraction causes refractory period? Do you have sources for this? That would be interesting if you could prove it.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

A muscle contraction causes refractory period? Do you have sources for this? That would be interesting if you could prove it.

Something must tell your brain that you have ejaculated so a certain signal is needed, i have no ways of medically proving it, except by the fact that when you circumvent that last spasm you wont go limp, i was able to do it by relaxing my muscles a letting the sperm just dibble out (i have written about it in my log and i thing in the mmo group), but i saw it as a pointless thing since multiple ejaculations aren't something that i want to do, but since the nature of a dry orgasm is to hold a kegel, you can't use that technique.

This is why some people use driving kegels after a DO to keep them up, or turning those after DO spasms into a kegel holds.


And it isn't just a muscle contraction it is when it occurs and what kind of signal it sends, that is the reason that some of the people who while truing to preform a DO but end up with a partial ejaculation or partial DO stay hard, it is that last spasm that have flushed all of the sperm of is somehow triggering a signal or it is a signal itself.

A DO in some way is a brain hack since it allowes you to manipulate wich signals will you send to some extent. It also proves that the orgasmic feeling isn't a part of a refractory signal/process.

People who where able to ejaculate without the feeling of orgasm (most people with premature ejaculation have had that at least once) can feel that signal very clearly since there is no orgasm.

[apprenticepe Member Find all posts View Profile Close apprenticepe]

When a boxer first learns to box, he is thinking about many different things the first time he steps in the ring.

His breathing, hand and foot positioning, when to punch, his opponents hands, head movement, he's an amateur. All of those things are first learned and incorporated the first match he has.

As he continues along his career muscle memory kicks in to gear as persistent training takes place. A year later, he has another boxing match. His boxing habits have formed and the way he thinks is differently now.

Deep breathing is now automatic, he swiftly dodges a jab to counter punch with precision. He is now not worrying about what he is doing but now focusing on his opponent. His thoughts may be, "his left hand looks a little low..."jab. instead of thinking about all of the things he first learned that now have become automatic.

A habit is generally formed in 21-28 days.

Where im going with this is if you can remain concious of your involuntary kegels, the way you move sets it off, where you touch, how you get up from sitting etc...always remembering to keep the reversed kegel and focus in on it during any situation that can cause it to involuntarily spasm.

This will be rough the first few days but after a period of time your concious thoughts will become automatic. Habit formation will start thus perhaps curing your involuntary kegels. This will take much mental energy and focus.

Thoughts comments questions concerns on this hypothesis?

[Drummer19 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drummer19]

I want to go back to your original question...

Is it reasonable to think that completely eliminating involuntary kegels is a cornerstone of beating PE?

I believe that your body naturally uses involuntary kegals and reverse kegals throughout your daily life. When you use the bathroom and take a dump, of course you are doing involuntary reverse kegals. When ending a piss, I always have to do a kegal to push out the last little bit of pee. There is an involuntary kegal for you. The muscles are there and they have purpose.

After some thought and lots of practice I think that it is necessary to have a soft involuntary kegal in order to sustain an erection. Kegals bring blood flow to your penis, so without it you can't get an erection. There are times that it seems like a get an erection without kegals (like when really aroused) but I think they do happen just much softer.

Anyways the point is, reducing the strength of the normal kegal, by reverse kegaling to balance it, is why some people are capable of controlling Pre-E. I think I will always have an involuntary kegal when I touch my penis-head and I accept it. (Now the involuntary kegal is much lighter though.)


Here's another thing to think about. And this is about arousal...
Sometimes, when you are not very aroused and having sex, you can kegal ALL you want and you don't get closer to finishing. So in this case, kegals and reverse kegals seem irrelevant. I just find it very strange. The mind overpowers the body.

[apprenticepe Member Find all posts View Profile Close apprenticepe]

I agree with what you said about soft kegels. No matter what you wanna try to do you will always have them. However if you can stop the hard ones from happening your in a good position. And yes i know exactly what you're talking about when you get to that state of mind where you know youll be able to pound away and not worry about anything.

[Drummer19 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drummer19]

I am glad you agree. I always thought I could get rid of them, it is funny that it turns out I can't. As long as I keep getting better I am happy. Take a loot at my new thread, where I go into detail on why I think my last post's last statement happens.

[MarcusHa Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MarcusHa]

I think I will always have an involuntary kegal when I touch my penis-head and I accept it. (Now the involuntary kegal is much lighter though.)

1- I noticed that after a first ejaculation the involuntary kegels that comes from touching my glans are very softer and sometimes doesn't even exist.

2- Being at my 2nd Edging week, I could a few times softly squeeze my glans and not have a kegel... consciously.

[JamesMonroe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JamesMonroe]

I'm testing a theory that maybe involuntary kegels/spasms/high sensitivity is caused by growing up using light touches and light grip in masturbation. I have asked many people and concluded so far that people with prem ejac used light grip and people with DE used the death grip. I am having a few people with prem ejac test the death grip and report back. I believe it shoud be done with lube to simulate a vagina and so that there is no skin/sensitizing permanant erection problems. We are all doing it in moderation and being careful. What do you guys think about this? I always used lube and used a very light grip and was always super highly sensitive when I had prem ejac.
Maybe we are onto something great here...