5 Months In: No progress with IKs

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hello Everyone,

First of all, thank you for this amazing site and the help/insights you guys offer. I have been following this forum for 5-6 months now and I have been actively following all the advice from Pegasus, Minuteman, Longerlastingnoob and everyone else has to offer. I have been having the Pre E: Same reasons - Porn, rush to finish, kegeling etc. etc.

Now I have been diligently doing RK weighted routines over the last 5 months. The last month I have added in 10 min of deep squats as well. But, I am just unable to eliminate IKs. I use an STU and the max I can do is like 50 slow pumps and the IKs start to come (PONR approaches). RKs are unable to overcome the IKs after a certain point. I stop, restart after a few min but the same happens in about 10-15 pumps. Although I am able to do 20-30 min (obviously with an incredible amount of stops and starts) of Edging there is no real progress in eliminating the IK. Continuous edging will most def take me over PONR.

I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong here. Is STU not right for edging? Should I go slower than one pump every 2 sec? After 6 months of RKs and pelvic floor relaxations its very frustrating to see minimal results. Comments and questions welcome.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Also I would like to add. I am very fit and flexible. Train weights + Kickboxing. Can infact almost do full split with my legs. The problem is most likely not mental. I am a relatively calm person with no real anxiety issues.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

What is your out of sex k/ek routine?
More info on the squats you do.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

10 min of lying Meditative RKS 2x a Week
75 - 5 sec RK holds (Sitting) 1-2x a Week (Not on the same day as Mediative RKs)
I used to do a 75 set of regular kegels 1-2x a week but have abandoned them for now till I achieve RK strenght.

5-10 min of flat footed deep squats 3x Week
Pillow/Foam Roller relaxation 1-2x a week

Many thanks for your early reply Pegasus. Hope we can troubleshoot this together!

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

When you say deep squat ;what depth? How wide are your feet ? What is the pause time in bottom position?
I take it this is unweighted .
Do you use the roller like ball massage ?
Do you have back or pelvic issues?

[popol5169 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close popol5169]

Perhaps you have this : https://www.pegym.com/forums/penile-...c-tilt-pe.html ?

Do you do strong rk? It seems in the beginning, many benefit from doing them with force (clench abs) .
You're very flexible, but does it mean you stretch the pelvic floor often?
You should try without the stu to see if you still have IK, if you do then it's a good idea to eliminate them without it, and try the stu later.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

When you say deep squat ;what depth? How wide are your feet ? What is the pause time in bottom position?
I take it this is unweighted .
Do you use the roller like ball massage ?
Do you have back or pelvic issues?

Depth - all the way to the floor. No pause time. I squat and and stay seated for the full 5 minutes. Should I be doing reps instead?

By roller ball, do you mean tennis ball massage. I have tried it but I am not sure what routine I should follow. It does seem a bit intense.

I do have some lower back pains but these came post pre e during injury from boxing. Its minor anyways and only hurts when I try to do roundhouse kicks.no other pelvic issues I am aware of.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Please consult this topic (and its link) in regards to checking if you have some sort of pelvic tilt or not. While I don't think this might be the problem with you it is a good idea to check.

Since you are fit and very active that means that your pelvic floor is well balanced so there should not be any problems in that regards as far as I know. So there are only a few things left here that I know of that might cause your problem with your IKs.

But before that, because your problem is solely IK we need to establish some sort of common understanding when regarding IKs.So please read this post and within this post read: "Involuntary and spasm kegels, the difference you should be aware of"

This will help you more easily identify which IKs you find problematic. Granted those definitions are something I observed and they might not be correct but it helps if we have some more detailed common ground regarding IKs.

What you need to do now is during edging (with and without fleshlight) observe how soon the IKs start, and try to notice what triggers them (this is most easily done when edging and ballooning, is there a specific area which makes you IK). Try to find any way you can if there is an instance where they are not as frequent etc. Try edging (with and without) in different positions etc so that you might gather as much data as you can.

Also I want you to try and perform a kegel hold and a root lock hold for 5,10,20,30 and see how consistent your hold is (do not do this while erect, and do not use your maximum strength but aim for a mid strength stable hold), try doing the same of the reverse variations if you can.

As you can see what I am trying to do now is put your problem into quantifiable measures so that I can better observe the problem and see if something irregular shows up, so if you come up with some ideas feel free to include them just be careful not to overdo it.

I also want you to learn more (if you didn't) about arousal:

Read
ByggD's Guide to Controlling Your Ejaculation Response
and
Arousal Techniques
and also
3day routine

And I also want you to check if your arousal feeling ever cowers your whole body so to speak or is it always just around the pelvic area. (Have you ever been highly aroused so that your whole body is warmer, your pulse goes up, your breath becomes faster etc).

The most used way here of battling IKs is to use either a kegel hold or reverse kegel hold of 1-3 seconds medium strength to turn the unconscious movement into a conscious one, this helps allot with AIKs, some find that kegels are better for them (me) while others find that reverse kegels help them more, so be sure to test the both of them for a while as well and see if it makes any progress at all.

The feeling I get when reading your post is that your problem might actually be a tight pelvic floor, because IKs are known to act up even more and more importantly affect a person even more when the pelvic floor is not relaxed enough. It also just might be a habit that is simply to strongly reinforced by something over and over (be it a form of exercise or the way you approach the session). So be sure to pay special attention to your pelvic floor and post your observations here so that Pegasus and LLN (more experienced than me in regards to actually workout and how pelvic floor can be affected by it) can have more data to work with.

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

Hi man, what exercises do you do for kickboxing and whatever else?
What do the rk's feel like now compared to first starting?
Do you edge with your hand and stu together or separately?

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hello Minuteman,

Many thanks for taking some time to help me. I did some experimenting today as you said. Here's my observations.

1. Tried edging with just hand (death grip+lube) today - Regular strokes. First IK (feeling of PONR approach) came after like 5-6 min. TBH I did increase the stroke a bit after like 5 min. STU would have caused this to happen in around 2 min.

2. The area getting stimulated causing IKs is the bottom part of frenulum. That seems to be the most sensitive part. As long as it it getting stimulated highly, I can feel PONR sensation in the pelvic floor and the IKs get stronger and stronger. A very few of them can be offset by RKs but as they get stronger they power through the RKs however hard I hold it. I also tried the 3 sec Kegal hold but it doesnt seem to stop any following IKs.

3. After reading your piece of SIK and AIK, I believe to my understanding this seems more like an SIK. It always comes after a certain level of stimulation and only contracts when stimulated. I am just not able to figure out how to override the SIK with the kegel hold. I can feel to sperm accumulating in my shaft with every IK ready to push me over PONR. If I don't stimulate I don't feel any random contractions.

4. Kegel test: 30 sec no problem Root Lock: I am not entirely sure if I can isolate but I can hold 30s here as well.
I can hold 30 sec of RK and RRL but I feel a bit more strained while doing this compared to regular kegel.

5. I haven't had any intention to learn DOs yet but I seem to be able to do this with ease whenever I hit PONR. In other words, a continuous kegel after PONR prevents me from shooting. However, I do lose erection. You did mention in your DO guide that this would happen the first few times as your brain's not conditioned to a DO. I haven't tried this enough times as prolonging time before PONR and reducing IKs was my primary goal all this time. I either ejaculate (voluntarily) or stop my session right before PONR.

6. Arousal is usually high in the pelvic floor. Thats where I feel the strong sensation.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hello LLN,

I do a lot of technique, conditioning, circuits, squats, leg raises for kickboxing. I do 15 min of yoga stretches to cool down after.

RKs are okey.I guess I have improved time to IK somewhat but STU still gets me off in 2-3 min. I have had a some sessions of 10 min. Not sure what the difference was there. My last 2-3 sessions were 3 min using STU.

Are your RKs strong enough to overpower the IKs as they get stronger. I always feel there is a point where the IKs start to power through the RKs taking you to PONR. How much stronger can I get my RKs to overcome IKs? Maybe you could recommend some heavier RK building excercises compared to regular one?

Ohh, I usually use just STU to edge and baloon. Sometimes I use hands to edge. Its definitely takes longer for IKs to come while using hand compared to STU.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

The DO link is just for you to further read up on AIKs and SIKs I would not recommend DOing at this point.

Good this provides a much clearer picture of the problems. Here is the thing about SIKs, they are somewhat a natural part of the whole process but the way they affect will vary, for example I have a similar "problem" but they are not affecting me nearly as they are affecting you therefore I am probably doing something differently that you are not.

I want you to imagine arousal as a sort of pressure build up, if you don't release it it will just rise more and more. And in the highly pressured situation every movement impacts you even more. So when you are aroused and your arousal is mostly located at your pelvic floor the pressure doesn't have anywhere to escape.

So you must learn how to allow your arousal to envelop your entire body evenly and this is usually done by where your attention is. When you edge your attention is mostly on your pelvic area at that is where your arousal accumulates, during edging you need to learn to focus your attention on the other part of your body. During edging try to find another place on your body that feels nice when you edge (for example your back touching a very soft cushion). if you are having problem focusing on another part of the body try touching it while you edge (for example if you are edging with your right hand, touch your right shoulder with your left hand).

The breathing part is also important in regulating the "pressure" but rather than using the old "breath deep" theme experiment as much different styles of breathing as you can. For example breath shallow but fast, breath deep but fast, breath in a specific rhythm, try moaning in different ways. Find how this all affects you.

Lastly, and for some this might be off putting, love yourself, be gentle to yourself, be sensual to yourself, moan, squirm, play with yourself, tease yourself, let your whole body be a sexual organ. Find your own way of regulating your arousal.

Here is also a thing people overlook when they look at arousal. When you are fully aroused, you are very warm (hot), sweaty, and you breath like you have run a marathon, your focus is slipping because of the pleasure etc. If you don't feel this then simply you are not fully aroused but just aroused locally. If during the moment you need to ejaculate you feel that just your penis is going to "explode" so to speak and not your whole body then you are not fully ( or full body) aroused. That is why many refer to full body ejaculation/orgasm and just ejaculation/orgasm as a different thing.

Form time to time try to follow the 3day routine linked in the previous post, put yourself in high arousal situation and simply stop edging for the day, then do that on the next day, and on the third day ejaculate.

I understand that this is off putting for many, but if you want to fix your problem you need to fully realize yourself sexually. This is the point where we come to the most complicated inhibitors and those are value/mental constrains that are put on you via either yourself, your surrounding or your religion. I am not saying that you have this mental/social aspect as a problem but I am just noting different kinds of arousal expression inhibitors.

Also do you know how to swim, do you have any specific problems while swimming? I ask this because swimming is a good way of finding out how relaxed and balanced one is. For example if you can float they you know how to relax both mentally and physically. I have problem with floating since I am a type of a person that is having problem really relaxing (mentally/psychologically).

The good thing about SIKs is that they are very predictable there for like a martial artist you can learn to anticipate them and somehow move with them in a sense, and also get used to them. For example as you edge and you notice SIK is starting to appear every time it happens tighten your body so that you may synchronize the feeling of pleasure all over your body. Also try the opposite, when ever SIK happen in that moment relax as much as you can, like when putting of a big burden of your shoulders.

The bottom line is this, experiment in any way you can think of, not only does it help to define your situation better, you will learn allot about yourself, and you may accidentally stumble upon a solution (in a decent amount of cases that is what happened to me in regards to premature ejaculation).

[Thandeptrai Member Find all posts View Profile Close Thandeptrai]

I do not know your condition a whole lot, but my advice is to stop watching porn and do PE stretches (the technique can be founded in beginner forum), while doing the stretches, notice your IKs and work on prevent them by RKs

[popol5169 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close popol5169]

An other thing , if you're uncut, a very easy way to control better the area around your frenulum, is to retract the foreskin as much as you can, in jeans when you walk etc...

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Ok I take it when you say all the way down your bum is resting on your heels. Take a step sideways into a sumo type position (look up hindi squats if you need).
I would start doing rk with longer hold times ,you can cut down the number of short holds. You might also consider spliting front and back rk.
Tennis ball style massage of the taint area is a good idea however you can use a softer ball if needed.

OK if your pelvic floor is relaxed you should not be geting IK in the first place and you would have to want to cum for it to occcur. So the question is why is your pelvic floor not relaxing ? First possibility pelvic /spine issues as per link Popol gave . Second stress/anxiety . Third someting in your daily life that is stressing the pelvic floor(pf) .
On point 3 the pf is used a lot as a core support muscle, so it is used in squat ( particularly weighted) it can also be used a lot in ab work and martial arts etc.