5 Months In: No progress with IKs

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Forcing stuf in anyway will almost never help.

I have the same problem with rk's before where most of the time RK will actually cause PONR, the trick is to learn how to actually relax the pelvic floor rather than just RK it. Here is one of the techniques I tend to use. Go near PONR and stand with your legs about shoulder width apart, stop edging and breather in very slowly in your belly, it is very important to do this slowly and gently. While you are breathing in, close your eyes and feel the sensations going up your spine and spreading all over your body. Now slowly breath out feeling the sensations going down your spine and imagine like your pelvic floor is dropping to the floor, like that place between the testicles and anus is elongating down.

The problem is that while you might be ok in controlling your arousal, your arousal threshold is not very high and you are not good in spreading that arousal over your body as well.

The idea is to observe arousal from three perspectives. Control, conditioning and movement. The most direct way of controlling arousal is to either raise it or lower it (most often a scale from 1-10 is used, pacing, breathing and etc is used to either rise or lower the scale), but another "dimension" of arousal control might be how to spread or move the arousal, which basically means that you need to move the arousal away from your pelvic floor and spread it all over your body equally. That is because when the arousal (sexual tension) is only gathered around your pelvic floor you quickly get past your body's arousal threshold and the only thing you can do (other than stopping) is to ejaculate.

Now, spreading the arousal do not needs to be whole body in order for you to reap the rewards (and in the beginning it is actually hard to do it if you are not used to it) so just try to do it by feeling the sensations on your spine.

Interesting thing about the arousal is that it "goes" where your attention goes on your body. If you focus on your spine the arousal will go there. It will also go where you tense your muscles, but if you tense to much muscles then you are still bottling up the pressure.

The reason RK are helpful for many (but there are people like you and me which find them almost useless) is because they are able to use the reverse kegel to decrease the muscle tension in the pelvic floor. Arousal or sexual tension and muscle tension are also linked, doing a rk while highly aroused can for some people create a conflict where your pelvic floor is tensed because of your arousal and you try to push against that tension at the same time with another force. For most their arousal tension can be overpowered by the reverse kegel, but for some the arousal and body tension is simply to high.

This is why doing reverse kegels outside of edging also help since it teaches you how to relax it better.

Then there is an another aspect of arousal and that is arousal conditioning, basically it is how much arousal you can endure. This is where exercising (lifting weights) and techniques like 3day routine help. In order to attain proper balance you need to work on all three aspects, learning how to control your arousal, learning how to spread/move it and conditioning yourself for longer amounts of time under high arousal.

People tend to make a mistake (and I was one of those) thinking that they must increase their time while edging without stopping first, and that can be like trying to run a marathon without even being able to walk that distance. So in other words you need to learn how to walk that long fist. So when edging, do not try to last 20 minutes while edging without stopping, but just try to last 20 minutes without your EQ dropping, condition yourself first to actually be erect for 20 minutes before you go, then slowly improve upon that.

20-25 minute mark is really important since it conditiones your body and your mind to the possibility of lasting long. Once you reach a 20-25 minute mark while being erect you will notice and feel just how important that is.

You this as your new mindset and starting point. Try edging till 20-25 minutes while your only task is remain with erection for that duration, nothing else is important. When you go near PONR do the breath-in-breath-out-pelvic-floor-dropping while focusing on the sensations all over your body and keep in mind the talk about arousal spread, control and conditioning.

Also try your best to enjoy the sensations. It is in many way like when one takes a part of chocholate and lets it melt in their mouth, savour the sensations you feel in your body, that is the way you are telling your brain that you enjoy lasting long and feeling like this longer.

I guess this might be a good start for you, try doing just this (along with reverse kegel breathing and deep squat stretching) for about 2-3 months and see if there is any improvement.

Minuteman spends a lot of time in his cave meditating on the tao of pre e. His body of written work is known for it's quality and depth, not it's volume . I suggest you take the time to understand it's meaning.

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

Don't give up.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

I am currently travelling in Europe and heres some updates:

Landed a hottie last night but only lasted 6 pumps sigh. I havent edged in over 10 days and considering my poor progress based on my last few edging sessions it was of no surprise.

I will focus on MM's tips once I return from my vacation. I have been doing some meditation and light RK routines in the mean time (alyhough rks excercises are still not showing any effect)

I spent some time going through the success forum again hoping to find similar cases where arousal control have been conquered without RK usage. I couldnt find any clear cases. Dobby's success seems to be the closest one although he was lucky to have an understanding partner to condition his arousal. Its difficult when you are single as all girls you meet toss you once they find that you are minutman. Its truly difficult to find a solution without a partner to condition yourself!

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hello MM,

Thought you would be the best person to give me a solution. I am practising the arousal exercises and meditation to address my arousal problem.

As you know in my case:
1. RKs are not helping and holding them during edging doesn't make me feel relaxed and actually brings me closer to PONR.
2. I feel pleasure only at high arousal but I also immediately move towards PONR with IKs during high arousal.
3. Edging at low arousal has not been transferrable to sex as sex is automatic high arousal and leads yo PONR.
4. Hence I am just not grasping this plateau edging concept if feeling pleasure and remaining in control.

Bases on this information, what is your recommendation of an ideal routine? I am continuing a reverse level workout with squats and stretches.

In your log, you had symptoms similar to mine but you were able to reach plateau somehow. How did you exactly do it? If things don't progress should I switch to mmo focused routine at some point?

Next time it might be a good idea to just post in this topic (since it is your log ) and send me a link with a PM.

Read this post and follow its links to get some ideas.

The problem you have is pretty much the problem I had and the problem many here have. The answer is prolonged exposure to high arousal, in other words you need to be horny for longer periods of time.

There are many ways to do it and all of them end up being different ways of finding your sweet spot or your plateau. The most simplest way I used (and still use) is to try and last a minimum of 25 minutes near PONR while doing minimal stroking needed just to stay highly aroused and erect. As you repeat this over and over in one of those sessions (it might take a lot of sessions depending on many factors) you will get to the point where you feel sufficient pleasure and are able to edge without stopping. It will be a session that basically opens your mind to the possibility that you can last longer.

The trick is not worrying about anything but reaching that 25 minute mark while highly aroused, erected and near PONR. So things like IK, reverse kegels, kegels and pretty much anything is not important. So once you reach the desired quantity you can start working on the edging quality.

Also reread my previous post in this topic as well.

Focusing your attention to pleasure and arousal rather than its control is also a good move. Because you will understand much better all my talk about arousal conditioning etc after you actually experience prolonged time under high arousal, and whole body arousal. You need to experience this and then many things will simply start to make sense.

One of the things you get to understand when you experience a whole body arousal is that your whole body in a way is a sexual organ and not just your penis, you begin to enjoy your body as you train your body to enjoy itself more you will start feeling pleasure at different phases of your edging and sex. The reason sex is so much better than masturbation/edging (as it were not obvious) is because the sensations from your partner help spread that arousal better when one is aware of that. You feel your partner's body along side yours when you are pressed together, you feel your partner's touch, breath, scent.

So basically you are overwhelmed by arousal and since your body is not used to whole body arousal you are not able to properly process (not even control) and you go over PONR and ejaculate. Now add to that any sort of anxiety or anything else and it can become complicated.

So a first solid step is to feel that sensation for longer periods of time. You can do it via edging in a way described above, you can even use porn to some extent (though in many ways it might not be a good idea but one should experiment) or in an ideal situation you will have a partner that is willing to allow you to take your time during sex and basically do the sex version of the edging practice above.

As for the 1 - 4 in your post, most of those will diminish or go away once you get used to high arousal, so for now focus just on edging, with meditative rk, and deep squat stretches, but I will go over them anyway:

1. You are too tense so instead of using rk as a relaxing movement (your pelvic floor dropping down on the floor feeling rather than the inflate feeling) this basically blocks the spread of your arousal and it makes your pelvic floor even more tense resulting in ejaculation.

2. Because you lack the gradual approach. So in one of your edging sessions you should slow down on the very first feeling on pleasure (you must be very focused to feel this also patient, premature ejaculators such as you and me lack it) and instead of your regular speed edge twice or trice slower as you do this breath deeper and try to feel different parts of your body you will notice that arousal follows your attention so experiment with that.

3. Edging at low arousal is a good beginning technique to show you that you can last long but after that others should be used. See edging techniques as tools in a toolbox every one has its use.

4. As you get more experienced and understand your arousal better you will understand that conscious control can get in a way of a very natural process that is sex, which in itself existed way before the mind as you see it now exists. That doesn't mean that the mind cannot enhance the process in the same way that in can complicate the process, but just that premature ejacuators tend to bring analytics, control and detachment where pleasure, wild abandon and connection with one's body are much more important.

When you start feeling whole body arousal, and whole body orgasms (which basically always follow when whole body arousal is maintained for extended periods of time) you get to understand just how old (primal) a sexual activity is, and how much it is actually hampered.

For me for example, I started noticing just how much I acted more with my mind than with my body. When I am joyful, I was mostly joyful (and to some extend still am) only with my mind (have you ever danced with joy?) or when I am angry and frustrated I just let it simmer in my mind (have you ever shouted/roared/screamed really really loud?). This may all seem esoteric but it is frightening to me just how little I use my own body compared to my mind.

Going to gym and swimming just further showed me that (it is actually then when I started paying more attention to this).

What I am trying to say is that premature ejaculation more often than not seems to be a symptom of a greater problem we have in modern world and that is a lack of connection with our body (but it is another thing just to say is, and whole other thing to realize that and experience it). The second point I am trying to make is just how important insight from extended periods of time being highly aroused is for your own progress.

That is why most of the time I don't paint the bigger picture for somebody else and only give to the point directions because the insight you gain and the things you learn and understand by yourself is much more important and beneficial. For me, for example, I am just beginning to understand just how much I don't know about my body and how much I am foreign to it and now I am trying to repair that broken link, and all this journey started with my desire to last longer and got to this point because if the insight I got.

Hope this was somewhat helpful in answering your questions, I seem incapable of answering questions in short format.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Thank you very very much. I am back from holidays next week. I have been backpacking so its been difficult to practice. I will follow your advise thouroghly and post continuous updates. Onwards and upward!!!

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Also, I extremely appreciate your long post as it provides some serious insight and theory into the process and most importantly it makes sense. My only question would be, theoretically, with good discipline, why would porn not be used while edging as it can be used to condition yourself (25 min) to extremely high arousals. BTW, I have been porn free since I joined the gym and only now I am thinking of using it after reevaluating my progress.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Also, I extremely appreciate your long post as it provides some serious insight and theory into the process and most importantly it makes sense. My only question would be, theoretically, with good discipline, why would porn not be used while edging as it can be used to condition yourself (25 min) to extremely high arousals. BTW, I have been porn free since I joined the gym and only now I am thinking of using it after reevaluating my progress.

I don't have much problem with porn, and I use it as well from time to time, what I dislike is that it makes me rely much more on porn for an erection, and while it is normal to be aroused in that way it also can create a potentially bad habit, because it can slip out of control so easily for many.

So I usually tend to either watch porn before edging, or will only watch porn once in 2-3 edging sessions depending on my goals. As with everything porn is one of the tools in the toolbox, the problem is that it tends to be overused.

I also check if I can be aroused from imagination alone and use that as my PI (physical/psychological indicator).

So I am for using porn from time to time if you don't have any chronic history with it as long as you have sessions that do not rely on porn in equal (or bigger) ratio.

Also you need to pay attention to common pitfalls with porn. For example, many members (including me in the past, and even now from time to time) make the mistake of staring to masturbate/edge right away (sometimes even while flaccid). While this might be natural for people with no premature ejaculation problems, for us it just activates some old habits that immediately move us to PONR.

The other mistake is "skipping straight to action" which provides with most arousal at once and most often then not it overloads and confuses the body. Allow at least some sort of gradual progression. I mean even in sex most of the time you will not jump straight to penetration, or even oral.

With that in mind, when watching porn allow your body to slowly acclimate to the sensations by not edging straight away and by not cutting straight to penetration. And even when you decide to edge either turn of the porn (for example have one session where you turn of the porn, one session when you don't and at least two sessions where you do not use porn at all) or start edging very slowly and be sure to enjoy each movement since at that point you will be highly aroused, do not allow the tempo of the porn to become the tempo of your edging because in most cases you will prematurely ejaculate.

I started to make really got progress the moment I decided that I want to enjoy the session rather than just to make the time and when I made the pleasure and sensations to be in the first place rather than performance. At the first glance this mindset is not different much than the typical mindset that premature ejaculationists have but actually it is different because you stop caring about performance and simply want to enjoy. That means that you are not obliged to edge continuously but stop whenever you want and edge in whatever manner it enables you to feel pleasure as long as you can (to the point that you can just do one stroke per 3-4 seconds, or balloon etc).

The difference is also that you want your while body to enjoy the pleasurable sensations. I always think of arousal like some gentle waves that envelop my whole body. Or it is like when you take a warm bath and you can feel warm and relaxed all over and not just the pelvic floor area. There will be times where you will derive extreme pleasure by just your performance and that is fine, but in order for that to happen you need first to "learn how to walk", so that you can run afterwards.

I noticed that in many ways people with premature ejaculation have problem with emotions, either not properly expressing them or being to sensitive because they do not know how to channel and release properly.

This does not mean that in long term your edging will not be about performance at least at some point, but members often confuse discipline with emotional numbness and working only by some protocol. For some people this helps but more often than not one needs to get in touch with the emotional, sensational part of themselves as well.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hello Guys,

Finally back from my vacation and re-starting my journey to cure Pre-E.

I will be taking a new approach of doing 30 - 45 min edging sessions. My goal is develop the ability to spread arousal and enter plateau.

Today I edged for 35 min. Lots and lots of PONRs. It was fun as it was pleasurable although I had stop or slow down every few seconds. Sometimes I felt that even touching my head may push me over the edge. (It happened at the end, although I kegeled hard and stopped the ejaculation).

I am also doing a meditation course at the same time. I am kind of understanding where minuteman is getting at and there are lot of parallels between meditation and edging. In meditation, we are guided and told that thoughts will come and go and you don't need to force yourself to stop them. Let them just happen and whenever you realize you are wandering away, you can start focusing on your breath again. In the case of edging, IKs will happen but we need to develop the ability of just letting them happen and eventually (hopefully) we can reach a point where they don't affect orgasm.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

UPDATE

Edged for 30 min today. First PONR came in 1 min then lots of IKs. I just kept going by slowing down, single-stroking or balloning. I have been threading a lot which is why I seem to be hitting high arousal levels pretty soon. I dont watch porn while edging but threading definitely amplifies my imagination and arousal levels which I believe will match the arousal level during sex. Edging is definitely a lot more enjoyable close to PONR. Hoping IKs disappear and I can enter plateau some day.

Also congrats to Influenza for hitting plateau. Thats definitely encouraging.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Not sure If I am doing this right.

i am edging so close to PONR that I am constantly forced to kegel to hold in ejaculation. I end up getting some partial. Even if I slow down, just that one extra stroke or even just touch takes me over the edge.

My whole edging session is basically: stroke/swirl =>IK..IK..PONR.

I did this for 25 min yesterday and I ending up cumming unintentionally when that one extra touch took me over the edge.

IKs start immediately from beginning. This is probably because of threading. I think I may ned to stop porn again.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Another session for 35 min this morning. Seems like the porn effect is going to take some time to wear off. I got to first PONR in like 30 seconds. Also, I had to kegel in 2 separate instances to hold ejaculation. Sometimes one extra stroke took me to PONR directly from no pleasure state (with IKs) and it was difficult to forsee that one.

What I am observing is that, the IK is giving me the pleasure and causes my dick to get harder. When I dont have IKs, I dont feel any kind of pleasure. I am still trying to understand this concept of arousal spreading. I am using deep breathing and trying to be relaxed but I am unable to shift that pleasure feeling from the pelvic floor to elsewhere.

I will keep edging away.

[Nobudy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nobudy]

Hey gucchi what is your routine in these days?

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hey gucchi what is your routine in these days?

Edging for 30+ minutes. So far not much progress made, I get to PONR (and pleasure) in like a minute. And then I just pretty much try to stay at PONR for 30 min. I sometimes need to stroke like 1 time per 30 seconds as its like a pressure cooker down there ready to blow. I switch to balloning as well at times. I have around 100+ IK spasms over the period which I seem to not be able to control. I also end up partialing (kegel) if I have uncontrollable heavy spasms. I am focussed on my breath at most times.

Despite much progress, I will continue the process as I am seeing guys make progress in other threads.

Out of edging, I am doing yoga stretches and tennis ball massages. RKs have not contributed to anything. I was doing them rigorously over a period.

I have a long journey ahead.

[Nobudy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nobudy]

What do you say about pennis stretches?.
Try to do this for a few days and see how it goes.
Grab your pennis from the base of it, where it connect to your abdominal, and pull outward(you dont want to stretch the pennis itself you just want to make muscle stretch) while you are doing it do a slight kegel and search for the best angle which seems the contraction is the most weaker at it.
Do this for a few minute every other day and see how it feels. For me it helped a lot.
If you dont understand and want more details you can PM me.
Good luck man!

Also I recommend you to do 70/30 RK/K not for balancing because I know it didnt help you, just for some relaxation and most important for maintain your EQ.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Update!

Still edging at PONR for 20-30 min. Haven't hit plateau yet but hoping to get there someday. Doing RKs and lots of yoga stretches as well.

On another note:

So, I was also experimenting with SJW,5HTP etc. After reading spanky"s thread and I didn't find any improvements. Then I read up Phenibut at 1g+ doses a week ago. Man oh man, it was something. I had a 35 min of sex and it was just amazing. No side effects the next day either.

Now I would like to stare that, although I cheated, I am no way slowing down on my edging routines and such. I am fully confident that I would be prem-E free naturally. But, for now I am elated that I have a temporary solution to satisfy the ladies while my routines come into play long term.
It has also reduced my performance anxiety and I can focus on my edging sessions with little stress.

I would like to warn that please use the supplement at your risk as no research has been made on long tern side effects.