So what the hell is the issue with being nice??

[Cptchewy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Cptchewy]

The 48 Laws of Power: Robert Greene: 9780140280197: Amazon.com: Books
It is a really good, but long, read. You'll really start to see how people intuitively use these methods to gain advantage in social interactions.

Thank you namsokiek. I will give it a read.

[TPW Senior Member Member of the Month Oct 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close TPW]

I think the whole bad boy/nice guy extends wayyyy deeper than that^
Many bad boys get married.

It's not the being *nice* that is bad, it's the underlying reason for your niceness. In the PUA community, there's the common guy-buys-a-girl-a-drink. That's nice, isn't it? But why is he doing it? Is he doing it because he wants something from her? In most cases, yea that's exactly why he's doing it. That's seen as manipulative and if you ask girls, they'll tell you they don't like it.
I know girls who go to clubs bringing only money for cover charge because they know guys will just trip over themselves to buy them drinks. These girls I talk to have a particular kind of disrespect for guys like that.
Does that mean you should never ever ever under any circumstance ever buy her something? Of course not - that's absurd. I like buying things for people. But why am I doing it? Well, usually because I feel like they deserved something. If they did something really cool, or whatever. It's coming from a totally different place. I'm very unlikely to buy something for a total stranger, you know? They have to earn it some how.

Nice guy is often associated with weakness. That does NOT mean being *nice* is weak. the "nice guy" is a just a term used for a special sort of guy. You can replace the words 'nice guy' with 'wuss-bag' if you want. He probably doesn't have a lot of self esteem, lets people walk over him, manipulates in 'nice-guy' ways (like above), and is probably passive aggressive and can't express himself well. He likely doesn't have clear boundaries and is afraid to try new things and probably has a lot of sexual hangups.
A bad boy is another kind of guy and it usually is associated with abusiveness. He might demonstrate certain characteristics of attractiveness (such as being aloof, being unpredictable, not giving a shit what people think) but he does have that very dark element of abuse about him.
^Neither of these guys are the ideal, by the way. This isn't a one-or-the-other kind of thing.

You can have elements of both. Be aloof, don't care what she thinks, but have a genuine caring and compassion for her. Not because you want something, but because you're a nice, decent human being. If you can give a person a compliment without expecting *anything* in return, that compliment means so much more.
I used to work at this one club and the beer bin girl was always dressed really nicely. She must have spent a small fortune on her evening wear collection. I noticed this and brought it up. I said something like, "Hey, I noticed you always have the nicest dress from anyone in the bar. You really manage to combine sexiness with class. I think you have great style." Or something to that effect. Then, I turned back to my job.
She just stood there, stunned. Then she held onto my arm and said "that's a really nice compliment. Thank you." It was like I just made her day.
I didn't want anything from her. I just said something nice because I noticed. It was genuine. It's not like i prepped that line and rehearsed it and thought, yea, she'll dig me for this. I wasn't trying to get her approval. I just wanted to say something nice - and she really appreciated it.
So the bad boy in me doesn't give a fuck what she thinks - "i'm GIVING this to you because that's what *I* want." But the nice guy in me says, "okay, but let's make it real and genuine."

Look at CUSP's posts. He's that nice guy/bad boy duo that women like. He says what he wants, when he wants it, no matter how stupid it is. He flirts, he jokes, he has a good time. But there is this underlying "I care" message in each one of his posts - even the ones where he's calling a person a dumbass. It's clear as day.

Toadstool,

Of course bad boys get married but if they wish to REMAIN married they will need to replace many of their “jerk” attitudes and behaviours toward women in favour of those qualities often associated with nice guys - if only with their spouse. And since bad boys need to become more like nice guys in order for a marriage/long-term relationship to have a greater chance at success, wouldn't it have been so much easier for bad boys to behave more like nice guys in the first place?

Now having said that, I agree with you that there are varying degrees of “niceness” – from doormat to douchebag – so the key is to find a balance between the two. And therein lies the secret to success with women.

[Hockey_NY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hockey_NY]

Cusp- Make my Avatar shine Christmas style, thanks

Yuck...I despise PUA, although agreed with the drink thing in a lot of cases. But let's be honest- There are hidden motives to almost everything you do. Some will argue even that money you donate for the charity at work or the dollar/s you put into the salvation army kettles - That essentially you are feeding your own "greed" to do something nice because it makes you feel better about yourself. Frankly, I think that is going a little too deep into it, but it is probably true in some regard. But that doesn't make it a bad thing.


Anyway, being a nice guy is a grand thing. Be who you are and do what you like as long as you are not hurting others around you.

I tend to agree with the general thoughts that pushovers are bad, genuine nice guys exist and are ideal, and while bad boys probably do well in the short term, they probably don't have many meaningful long-lasting relationships.

But it is also important to show a few dimensions to women. It doesn't mean that the nice kind guy turns into an asshole at times. But that the nice guy can have other sides or interesting traits going or he does have breaking points or can turn it on in certain areas, etc. Anything too one dimensional is probably not that cool.

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

Awesome! Now we can put this stupid topic to rest. Who wants wine? Me, that's who

[BTBrian Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BTBrian]

Awesome! Now we can put this stupid topic to rest. Who wants wine? Me, that's who

I'm going for Mirror Pond Pale Ale personally...

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

That sounds like beer.