Problem

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Shamrock - Don't believe for a second that you are not perfectly capable or adequate to please a woman. There is so much more that makes sex enjoyable for a woman than just your unit. As many of the women here have stated, a finger or tongue, which is much smaller than your size, is able to bring a woman to orgasm, maybe even multiples.

Happiness is a state of mind, and positivity is all about perception. I agree with what MrB8 said above. Changing your way of thinking changes the actions, and by changing the actions, you change the outcome.

You don't need to change your size, but if you want to, for yourself, then by all means, forge ahead. Do it to gain confidence and improve yourself, which will take you further with women than any size gain will.

So get back in there, keep your head held high, believe in yourself, and don't let others bring you down. You deserve better, and she's out there waiting.....

[TPW Senior Member Member of the Month Oct 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close TPW]

I know I'm supposed to be positive but its hard sometimes because I have never heard of anyone having a completely healthy fulfilling relationship with.the stats i do right now and until I make some gains I don't believe i ever will because they will be wanting more which is why I'm starting up with PE again so that i can have a solid relationship and not worry as much because a relationship where the woman is not fully satisfied and wanting more is not a good or healthy relationship

Hey Fella,

It is really, really important that the motivation for doing PE is for your benefit rather that some very limiting misconceptions you currently have about what women want. If the only reason you are doing PE because you feel it is the "key" to getting and keeping a solid relationship; you have both misunderstood the true benefits of PE and what it takes to have a successful relationship. That stinkin' thinkin' needs to cease...immediately. Do PE because it will increase your confidence and give you a healthier penis. Read up on what elements go into creating a successful relationship, what personality traits women find attractive in a man and develop those because a worthy woman will want and desire you for much, much more than the size of your penis. Trust me on this.

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

MovingUp,

I agree with you that honesty is good, even when talking to someone about something they might be insecure about. The main reason I think it's good is that the person can get on with processing the fact that although they might have an attribute that isn't perfect or ideal, it isn't as important as they might think it is. I have posted about this before, but I think it's relevant to this thread. The question "Am I small" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

If a guy who is clearly below average is told by some people that he is small, and by others, who are trying to help him, that he is average, or even large, then he can get stuck in a kind of loop where he thinks to himself, "OK, I'm average, so and so told me so". Then he sees a legitimate study that makes him believe he is is small. Then he talks to someone who reassures him, and again he thinks "OK, I really am OK, I think". This can lead to obsessively thinking about it. The important thing is that he'll never get on to the most important part, which is the processing of the fact that even if he is small, it is not the end of the world, not even close. As people have pointed out, oral skills and general lovemaking skills, even just the ability to kiss a woman very well, can have a major impact on how sexually desirable a woman thinks a man is.

You can tell someone the truth without being brutal about it. You can be comforting, and at the same time get someone to see the truth. They're not mutually exclusive. And I know you did some of that in your post, but I think it was definitely tilted toward the tough love approach, especially in the beginning. I think you're approach might be a reaction to what you view as people coddling guys, who you think need to hear the truth straight up. The truth might very well be what is good for them, but I think it can be delivered in a kinder, more effective way. In this thread, I think you veered off the road from truth telling into giving potentially damaging advice, and also saying things that I think are objectively not true.

I understand your motivation, but I think you could help people more with a kinder, more compassionate approach. Being compassionate about it isn't going to prevent them from hearing the truth.

Here are some examples:

...
I mean I remember her telling me about a guy she fucked who was very attractive but then had a tiny 4.5 inch dick and she couldn't tell it was in and just wanted it all to be over and for him to leave.

This may be a true story, but I don't think it's very helpful. You just brought a size queen to the small penis support group:-) Legal, of course, but not really a very good idea. Also, referring to 4.5 as tiny is not a great choice of words. I know you're quoting you're size queen ex, but again, is that really helpful? This guy is trying to battle the idea that he is tiny, and therefore useless, and you go off and quote a woman saying exactly what his worst fears are. shamrock has 5 inches of girth - that is definitely not tiny. I don't think 4.5 inches of length is anywhere near tiny, either. Take a look at a ruler. 1 inch is really not that much. I doubt a woman could even tell the difference between 4.5 and 5.5. The extra inch might make certain positions a little easier, I guess, but I seriously doubt my 5.5 inch NBPEL is hitting any important spots inside a woman that his 4.5 NBPEL isn't. I know that changes as you get into the 7 - 8 inch range, but at 4.5 inches, shamrock is in the same boat, lengthwise, as most guys - not hitting the deep spots, but still perfectly capable of pleasing a woman, especially with his 5 inches of girth.

...
I think we should at least admit that the majority of girls at least do care that they guy be at least averagely endowed ... and I don't know if 5 inches cuts it.

The majority of girls probably prefer average or above, just like some men might prefer large breasts. Actually, I think a better analogy is blowjobs. I definitely prefer a woman who gives amazing, mind blowing blowjobs. I love that. But I have dated and been incredibly attracted to women who have not given great blowjobs. And I have fallen in love with women who did not have much skill in that area.

And again, choice of words - saying that 5 inches doesn't cut it is pretty insensitive, and I think it's also objectively false. 5 inches cuts it for a very large number of woman who are married to average guys. Maybe 5 inches is slightly less than the statistical average, but I highly doubt that it's even noticeably different than average.

...
Now if you are 5 inches in girth, you're already above average there. Within not too long of time of pe you should be able to reach great girth (5.5+)
....
Really, a lot of what a girl feels is the first portion of the vagina and with your girth, you should be able to please a female pretty well even if you are short in the length.

Now that is helpful, and all very true. What's wrong with that approach.

....
So maybe the best thing would be to fuck the girl first without her seeing it, then get what that felt like in her head, then she can later see it afterwards. Otherwise she might see it and already paint the experience as going to be negative and then perceive it to be worse when it goes down than it really was. Just an idea.

Not helpful, and I think this is very bad advice. I know you're just trying to help him. For all I know, shamrock will think this is great advice, but I would advise him to put that fat, slightly short, bad boy on display. It probably has a good thick look to it. Show it to her proudly. Joke around about it. Say something like "He's a little stout, but he's handsome, isn't he?. And he likes you a lot."

... but you have adequate girth and length to please them even still. Plus if you stuck with pe, you'd have a great dick before you knew it!

Very helpful and encouraging, but unfortunately he can't hear you, because you've already beaten him to a bloody pulp. He's laying on the floor bleeding:-)

MovingUp, I'm not trying to start an argument with you. I'm just trying to point out where your post hit me as kind of unhelpful, and possibly damaging, despite your good intentions. These could be the same things that caused some others here to take offense to your post.

[MovingUp Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MovingUp]

Well Thinjohnny, thank you for actually reading my post. You see, those other members you're trying to defend didn't just take offense, they gave ridiculously poor responses full of strawmen arguments, responses that overlooked portions of my post, and responses that pretend like half my post didn't exist, which is not excusable simply because part of my post was "tough Love" as you put it. But I didn't expect any better. Many people just let their emotions override their logic. It's sad.

But moving on, your post was mostly all fair and accurate except I didn't say 5 inches didn't cut it. You quoted me about it ... how could you have made that mistake ... I said I wasn't sure if it cut it ... Come on dude ... be freaking fair at least ...

Overall, yes I had tilted my post to the way you said because of the rest of the members coddling. You think it's not necessary or helpful. I disagree. That's of course fine. I think if the most negative person talking about you ends up still stating how you're good to go, that actually would in most people's minds work well. Like - "Gee even he says I'm good enough and he's saying all this" ... No? I don't think the whole "he can't hear you because you beat him down" is realistic.

Also, in regards to suggesting him not show it first ... well I think a lot of what a girl experiences is in her head, and I know how much first impressions matter and I think it's a good idea lol.

[shamrock1790 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shamrock1790]

Moving up

I understand where ur coming from and I agree coddling doesn't help anyone but constructive helpful advice does. I'm realistic I know majority of women won't be overly pleased especially by first site of it but i know I can please women its just the fact of being that size and the bad rep it comes with Im already at a disadvantage and I know it. My stats are not desired by majority and i would like to feel desired everyone does, im starting up pe again and i'm pretty sure im going to be a hard grower and would like some input from people about good routines for hard growers, I did it for 4 or 5 months before and seen no gains not even in the slightest, was from different site but it was similar i believe

[MovingUp Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MovingUp]

It took me 4 months before I saw any real results in my erections, though I saw flaccid gains earlier. Some good advice is don't give up. Even if it takes years before you're near where you want to be, the day 3 years from now will come; you will either have done PE since then or think back and wished you did, the choice is yours.

[ThinJohnny Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThinJohnny]

Well Thinjohnny, thank you for actually reading my post. You see, those other members you're trying to defend didn't just take offense, they gave ridiculously poor responses full of strawmen arguments, responses that overlooked portions of my post, and responses that pretend like half my post didn't exist, which is not excusable simply because part of my post was "tough Love" as you put it. But I didn't expect any better. Many people just let their emotions override their logic. It's sad.

But moving on, your post was mostly all fair and accurate except I didn't say 5 inches didn't cut it. You quoted me about it ... how could you have made that mistake ... I said I wasn't sure if it cut it ... Come on dude ... be freaking fair at least ...

Overall, yes I had tilted my post to the way you said because of the rest of the members coddling. You think it's not necessary or helpful. I disagree. That's of course fine. I think if the most negative person talking about you ends up still stating how you're good to go, that actually would in most people's minds work well. Like - "Gee even he says I'm good enough and he's saying all this" ... No? I don't think the whole "he can't hear you because you beat him down" is realistic.

Also, in regards to suggesting him not show it first ... well I think a lot of what a girl experiences is in her head, and I know how much first impressions matter and I think it's a good idea lol.

It sounds like shamrock appreciated your tough love, so all is good, but be careful, the next guy might hang himself:-)

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

So Shamrock, did you ever take a good BPEL measurement because I would guess that 4.5 to 5.0 NBP will be bigger than you think in BPEL, surprisingly even most thin guys can have an easy 1/2 of an inch and add that with the fact that your pretty vague on your measurement you may just surprise yourself. I am only asking because I do not think you are as small as you think. Your girth is good and your length is most likely at least average, and yes, the average BPEL is 5.7 inches.

I would hate to see you miss out on the good things life has to offer because of "perceived" short coming.

You know when I started this stuff I was at 6 x 5.5 and my measurements were bone pressed and I had quite a few ladies say it was big, good, fat and a few other compliments along the way. I know for a fact it was my girth getting the good kind words so I would use that fat wiener and have fun.

Another thing is that so many women that guess a man is 8 inches are usually way way off. Every guy in the world tries to add an inch or two and honestly most of them think they are as big as they say until they measure themselves.

[shamrock1790 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shamrock1790]

Bpel haven't measured in a while but last time I was right around 5 maybe a tad less since my fat pad isn't much at all

[shamrock1790 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shamrock1790]

And BP measurement is kinda useless since that extra whatever it may be isn't going in

[shamrock1790 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shamrock1790]

So I measured and im 4.75 NBP and about the same for girth and about 5.25 BP

[MrB8 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close MrB8]

And BP measurement is kinda useless since that extra whatever it may be isn't going in

Bone Pressed are more important, and accurate. It is also used according to position, in woman on top positions the whole penis is used, just don't confuse visible with insertable

[shamrock1790 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shamrock1790]

I need a good lengthening routine if anyone has one