Getting into shape.

[MovingUp Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close MovingUp]

Toadstool I will grant the chest being a relatively worked muscle group in a pullup set however come on lets be honest here, the work you do on these other muscles besides the back/side shoulder and back on pullups is not going to be effective in any sense of the word in building muscle or gaining strength in these other groups of muscle.

I come at you as an enormous pullup fan. I work my back almost solely with pullups and chinups variations. I am doing sets of added 60 -80 pound pullups at the moment and just 3 days ago got a skinny 135 pound gym friend to hop on my back and did a few chinups for fun.

Trust me I know I used some abs and butt to stabilize myself with that much weight but beyond going that heavy will I really work my abs effectively enough to call it a "good substitute" for working these muscles? If not what's the point of even mentioning how they are working the muscles slightly? Are pullups really a good substitute for working the muscles pushups does? That is what mslookin4more was implying back on page 64 and it's just false. Surely you can not think that pullups are good for triceps chest and front delt come on man it's not like this isnt common knowledge in the fitness community!

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

Toadstool I will grant the chest being a relatively worked muscle group in a pullup set however come on lets be honest here, the work you do on these other muscles besides the back/side shoulder and back on pullups is not going to be effective in any sense of the word in building muscle or gaining strength in these other groups of muscle.

I come at you as an enormous pullup fan. I work my back almost solely with pullups and chinups variations. I am doing sets of added 60 -80 pound pullups at the moment and just 3 days ago got a skinny 135 pound gym friend to hop on my back and did a few chinups for fun.

Trust me I know I used some abs and butt to stabilize myself with that much weight but beyond going that heavy will I really work my abs effectively enough to call it a "good substitute" for working these muscles? If not what's the point of even mentioning how they are working the muscles slightly? Are pullups really a good substitute for working the muscles pushups does? That is what mslookin4more was implying back on page 64 and it's just false. Surely you can not think that pullups are good for triceps chest and front delt come on man it's not like this isnt common knowledge in the fitness community!

Oh, I got the impression she was saying "do push ups until you drop some weight, then incorporate the pull ups." Pull ups at this point for The Don are not realistic. Pushups are! That's what I thought she was saying. I would agree with you in saying that one could be substituted for the other. They can't.

I could be wrong in saying that the pull up works the whole of the shoulder. I'm raising my hand over my head right now and the front of my shoulder and pec tense up. If I had a client, would I leave it at that? Certainly not. I'm just not confident in saying that the front part of the body is "negligible." I'd say it's pretty substantial. It teaches these other muscles to act as a stabilizer, tensing when their antagonists tense, and not in a way that impedes motion. I think that's very important.
would I remove other ab exercises in favour of pull ups and push ups? You know what - it depends on what you consider an "ab day." A lot of the people in the gym do like 20 different ab exercises in the same setting. I used to be that way myself. Now, I have a better understanding of how muscles work.
No, I wouldn't cut out every single ab exercise. I'd have a choice 1 or 2, possibly 3, depending on the client's skill, but I wouldn't dedicate a whole lot of time to "tackling the muscle from different angles." It's a waste of time.
Strength is gotten through high intensity. You can teach the abs to do it's job of stabilizing the spine through full range of motion in the movements like the pushup and the pull up. However, the tension built there is not increasing with each subsequent pull/push up day, so I would also throw in maybe an ab roller or leg raise or janda sit up, or dragon flies, to teach the abs to do the same job in high tension.
No i wouldn't substitute ab workout for the pull/push up, but yes I do believe absolutely they are worked effectively in these movements. If you're letting weights hang off your legs or your waist, then they work all the harder.

These are the reasons that I mention it at all.

As for the triceps, my answer will be the same. Look, if all you're doing is pull ups and never upping the intensity, then the work your arm can do will be limited. I'm here cranking out uneven pull ups and am training for the 1-armed pull up. The triceps HAVE to work. There is not enough stability in the smaller biceps for the eccentric contraction. The tricep works very hard on the more advanced progressions of the pull up. The basic pull up - I'm not so sure. I'd say it'd be limited. At DT's level of fitness, they'd be substantial. Again, would that be the ONLY thing I'd have his triceps doing? Of course not. Life is dynamic. His workout regime should be too. That being said, I'd toss out the tricep kickbacks ALTOGETHER

Just to give you an idea - I can't perform my average amount of reps if I do pull ups and push ups in the same day. My arms are exhausted. If the pull up was just the back muscles, and the push up was just the front muscles, that wouldn't happen at all. I have to time them separately.

[kickinthemebs Senior Member Member of the Month Feb 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close kickinthemebs]

Lol

My muscles are so confused that I'm growing glutes on my arms and abs on my ass.

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

Today's workout over with. Seemed like anything dealing with my arms went slower, but after that nothing spectacular happened.

• Barbell Squat
  
  • 114 lb x 11 reps
  • 114 lb x 6 reps
  
  
• Barbell Deadlift
  
  • 114 lb x 11 reps
  • 114 lb x 6 reps
  
  
• Weighted Crunch
  
  • 45 lb x 15 reps
  
  
• Barbell Bench Press
  
  • 114 lb x 16 reps
  • 114 lb x 11 reps
  • 114 lb x 6 reps
  
  
• Barbell Curl
  
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  
  
• Push-Up
  
  • 15 reps

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

Workout done for today. I'm at the point where I am really pushing myself, especially with the bench presses. The farmer's walk was uncomfortable, but I bet that is from me not doing it the last two weeks because of the weather and the last time I did it I wasn't this far into my routine.

• Barbell Curl
  
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  
  
• Barbell Bench Press
  
  
  • 114 lb x 17 reps
  • 114 lb x 12 reps
  • 114 lb x 7 reps
  
  
• Barbell Squat
  
  • 114 lb x 12 reps
  • 114 lb x 7 reps
  
  
• Push-Up
  
  • 16 reps
  
  
• Weighted Crunch
  
  • 45 lb x 16 reps
  
  
• Barbell Deadlift
  
  • 114 lb x 12 reps
  • 114 lb x 7 reps
  
  
• Farmer's Walk
  
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 145 ft | 67 lb

[JohnnyJ Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnnyJ]

Too long of a thread to read thorjugh it all but depending on your goals try Starting strength to build a really good foundation, it consists of heavy squats, bench press, deadlifts and rows or powercleans. you can add accessory work later on. Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official RIPPETOE-STARTING STRENGTH FAQ - Bodybuilding.com Forums promise you will gain a shit ton

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

Took a look at the link you provided and I am going skip on it. My goal is losing weight and getting stronger is just a nice benefit. Thanks for the information though.

[JohnnyJ Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnnyJ]

No problem, but you don't have to use it to bulk up, just a simple easy routine to work your form and strength. Add cardio and a calorie deficit and you lose weight. Because your routine ATM is all over the place. Can't tell if you're building strength primarily or trying to put on mass.

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

In all honesty I am pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff, not to mention my stubbornness for not taking the advice that many have tried to give me.

For the most part, if not the entire part, I have no idea what I am doing.

[JohnnyJ Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnnyJ]

In all honesty I am pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff, not to mention my stubbornness for not taking the advice that many have tried to give me.

For the most part, if not the entire part, I have no idea what I am doing.

Haha you're fine man, I feel that. People usually get discouraged when they see a routine they only have to do 3 days a week with only 5 excercises but the point of this is to build a good foundation and put weight on the bar. Ultimately as long as you're seeing results you want with what you're doing then that is all that matters. Just focus on your diet and you will be ok

[JohnnyJ Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnnyJ]

All I can say is doing starting strength for 5 months I went from 145 pounds to 225 on bench for reps, 185 to 290 on squats and 225 to 345 on deadlift all for reps. You just keep adding weight to the bar. I plateaued a few times but I just micro plated with 2.5 pounds and got through them. But dot expect this of you aren't eating caloric surplus. When cutting weight can't stress it enough. Eat enough protein to preserve what muscle you do have and drink water.

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

Workout done today. I pushed it to the very end of my routine cycle and, in combination with the heat, was more difficult than usual. I had to split up the bench presses a little bit as I knew I wasn't going to be able to do a set of 20.

With that I must ask. With the increased weight/low sets I am confused as to how many sets would be good, seems like 5 reps per set is the norm(?), and how long before I increase the weight?

• Barbell Squat
  • 114 lb x 15 reps
  • 114 lb x 10 reps
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  
  
• Push-Up
  • 16 reps
  
  
• Barbell Bench Press
  • 114 lb x 15 reps
  • 114 lb x 10 reps
  • 114 lb x 10 reps
  • 114 lb x 10 reps
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  
  
• Barbell Curl
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  
  
• Farmer's Walk
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 145 ft | 67 lb
  
  
• Barbell Deadlift
  • 114 lb x 15 reps
  • 114 lb x 10 reps
  • 114 lb x 5 reps
  
  
• Weighted Crunch
  • 45 lb x 16 reps
  
  

Haha you're fine man, I feel that. People usually get discouraged when they see a routine they only have to do 3 days a week with only 5 excercises but the point of this is to build a good foundation and put weight on the bar. Ultimately as long as you're seeing results you want with what you're doing then that is all that matters. Just focus on your diet and you will be ok

My diet is most likely my biggest problem. It has gotten better, but it is still poor.

[JohnnyJ Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnnyJ]

Your mindset in the gym should be to put weight on the ba whenever possible. I'd recommend a 3set by 5rep for maximum strength gains in all honestly. 114 for bench, squat, deadlift is a bit odd to me. But that's ok. I'm just going to go through your whole routine. Say it's a Monday...walk into the gym. Go to the leg extension machine possibly and get a good nice pump. Then head over to the squat rack. No smith machine...the squat rack! And do your workout. As much weight as you can for 5 reps. Then skip push-ups head over to bench warmup and do the same. Afterwards set up a deadlift station and do 2 sets of 5 reps. 1 warmup set and 1 reaaaally fuckin heavy work set. Trust me this is all you need. And if you insist on extra exercises do dips 3 sets by 8 and do your weights crunches 3 sets by 12... If you do this with good form this routine will kick your ass. Then say it's Wednesday..you can do this whole routine in the squat rack. Start of with squats again replace bench press with military press in the squat rack and replace deadlifts with barbell rows... Do your crunches and be done.

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 2x5
Dips 3x8
Decline Weighted crunch 3x12

Workout B
Squat 3x5
Military press 3x5
Barbell row 3x5
Decline weighted crunch 3x12

Just do switch between these every other day and finish up with 30 minutes of cardio walking on an incline. I prefer incline 12 at 3mph...eat atleast 180g protein a day and 70 grams of fats...fill the rest of your calories with carbs

[JohnnyJ Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnnyJ]

And add weight to the bar everytime you go into the gym

[Dontrike Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dontrike]

Small workout done for today. Added the farmer's walk, which probably wasn't the smartest as I was quite sore from something or another. The lunges were especially difficult because of it. I look forward to when I can walk farther with the farmer's walk.

• Arnold Dumbbell Press
  • 30 lb x 17 reps
  • 30 lb x 17 reps
  
  
• Dumbbell Bicep Curl
  • 30 lb x 17 reps
  • 30 lb x 17 reps
  • 30 lb x 17 reps
  
  
• Dumbbell Lunges
  • 30 lb x 17 reps
  
  
• Farmer's Walk
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 499 ft | 67 lb
  • 145 ft | 67 lb
  
  

Your mindset in the gym should be to put weight on the ba whenever possible. I'd recommend a 3set by 5rep for maximum strength gains in all honestly. 114 for bench, squat, deadlift is a bit odd to me. But that's ok. I'm just going to go through your whole routine. Say it's a Monday...walk into the gym. Go to the leg extension machine possibly and get a good nice pump. Then head over to the squat rack. No smith machine...the squat rack! And do your workout. As much weight as you can for 5 reps. Then skip push-ups head over to bench warmup and do the same. Afterwards set up a deadlift station and do 2 sets of 5 reps. 1 warmup set and 1 reaaaally fuckin heavy work set. Trust me this is all you need. And if you insist on extra exercises do dips 3 sets by 8 and do your weights crunches 3 sets by 12... If you do this with good form this routine will kick your ass. Then say it's Wednesday..you can do this whole routine in the squat rack. Start of with squats again replace bench press with military press in the squat rack and replace deadlifts with barbell rows... Do your crunches and be done.

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 2x5
Dips 3x8
Decline Weighted crunch 3x12

Workout B
Squat 3x5
Military press 3x5
Barbell row 3x5
Decline weighted crunch 3x12

Just do switch between these every other day and finish up with 30 minutes of cardio walking on an incline. I prefer incline 12 at 3mph...eat atleast 180g protein a day and 70 grams of fats...fill the rest of your calories with carbs

Unfortunately dips and decline weighted crunches are impossible for me with the equipment I have available at home and even the military press is only possible if I am sitting down.

And add weight to the bar everytime you go into the gym

I'm not quite sure I can do that every time, but I will agree that I need to increase it more than once every 4 or 5 weeks or so.