American Politics

[closed224 Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2014, Feb 2017 Find all posts View Profile Close closed224]

Apple trees thrive with some pruning. Hahahaha I know, bad Wishful.

[burtybasset Retired Moderator Member of the Month May 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close burtybasset]

Apple trees thrive with some pruning. Hahahaha I know, bad Wishful.

You know what I mean.

[Injoker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Injoker]

Well, I maintain that free market capitalism while productive, results in corruption, oligarchical autocracy, environmental devastation, global inequality and poverty. Additionally, I think it's delusional to think the US under a neoliberal government would ever allow a peripheral nation that it has trade deals with or investments in to develop into a core nation. If you haven't already, look into World Systems Analysis. It is precisely because you can pay slave wages in peripheral nations that you can afford to mass produce products and maintain ever-increasing wealth. Were these nations ever to be a competitive threat to the US economically, the US would respond with economic sanctions and restrictions. In terms of trade deals, the US is of course expected to get the best possible deal for itself, and at that negotiating table, the US has all of the power, so peripheral nations often just end up with horrendous deals. There is no "scale" of wages you have to climb. Nothing about earning more money would cripple a peripheral nation that wants to be a future core nation.

Instead of the metaphor where you put the roof on without foundations, instead try this. A man is trying to build a house, and to do so, his neighbour buys fruit so the guy can afford to build. The problem is, his neighbour offers him crappy prices like 10 cents for a kilogram of apples. The man tries to haggle, but the neighbour won't budge. So he tries to sell to his other neighbours, but none are interested, because his neighbour went already made it clear to the rest of them that if they jack the prices, they are in a position to give them shitty prices too. The first neighbour has a habit of getting into fights. Not only that, but the neighbours also like paying 10 cents a kilo. So the man continues to sell fruit to get by, but now he can't afford to keep getting building materials for his house. So he continues to sell fruit, hoping one day he might be able to finish his house. His neighbours like to tell him that bit by bit he will get there, but he seems to be perpetually stuck. Sometimes he gets a piece of wood and it feels like progress. But every now and then, the first neighbour comes over and smashes a foundation with a hammer, and there is no one to stop him.

Poverty is poverty, regardless of where it is. Having it be "less likely you will die from starvation" is the worst consolation ever. That's like saying it's better to die from Cancer when you're standing outside the clinic that told you they had a cure just for you but you can't afford it.

[Holm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Holm]

@ Injoker:
How is it the USA's fault that other countries aren't capable of providing themselves with essential goods, dealing with government corruption, and raising their standard of living? You have plenty of small, independent countries in Europe, for example, who are able to manage themselves, yet when countries in Africa, Asia and South-America never seem to be able to get themselves out of perpetual poverty, crime and mismanagement, it supposedly is the fault of the US (or the West).

Were these nations ever to be a competitive threat to the US economically, the US would respond with economic sanctions and restrictions.

There are several countries that compete with the US economically, for example China, India, Japan and Russia, within different types of manufacturing and trade, with only the latter receiving trade sanctions, on geopolitical grounds.

In terms of trade deals, the US is of course expected to get the best possible deal for itself, and at that negotiating table, the US has all of the power, so peripheral nations often just end up with horrendous deals.

Although the US is the single most powerful country, they do not hold all the power. China and Russia have been working to maintain closer trade relations with each other, the last 5 years or so, and together could hold just as powerful a negotiation card as the US.

All in all, I think it is worth to mention that current US trade policies has very little to do with furthering the interests of the average American, but furthering the interests of international companies. At least up until Trump took office, and it seems to be changing little by little now.

[NOWHARD Banned Find all posts View Profile Close NOWHARD]

When it comes to trade deals Trumps needs to walk a better path than he's walking now, he is always going on about we are buying in to much lets say from Japan and not selling enough back, and says in needs to be more equal that will never happen, for one if Japan needs something it makes it, they have some of the worlds greatest artisans in lots of trades, so that's why its not equal, your a country that loves what they produce, but you cant produce the there very high quality demanded by them, so for that it will always be unequal, if it gets changed, your be the losers and not them.

And the same goes with other trade deals, the USA wants what other country's make and not the other way round, its like a lot of other country's we have gone that way, mainly because big business's in third world country's can do it as good and for half the price or was its the price of shipping now that will turn it round lots of things are coming back to the UK just as it will for the USA and could be now, but with country's who make high quality products that you need then it wont, so that part will always be there, chop them off your just lose them.

NOWHARD

[NOWHARD Banned Find all posts View Profile Close NOWHARD]

Dodd- Frank; a great bill written by the two guys who did the most to cause the housing meltdown and which has wiped out more small community banks since the depression.

Cusp The shit hit the fan in 2008 and the Dodd and Frank bill come into being in 2010, by then the melt down had already happened, pray do tell me if I'm wrong but was it not that bill that got things tightened in the mortgage world to stop it happening again?

NOWHARD

[NOWHARD Banned Find all posts View Profile Close NOWHARD]

Nowhard, you completely missed the point. He is saying humans treat each other like shit. From the large, wars, to the small, no tips from a soccer mom. He is saying if all the ants began acting like that humans would say a lot. Yet humans keep treating each other like shit.

So tell then Wish what the hell did it have to do with the answer to cusp, or was just to try and shit me up, because like I said it was just bollocks.

Sorry Wish I'm a tadge behind here, with working elsewhere.

NOWHARD

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Was it not Chris Dodd and Barney Frank that let Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac run wild even though they were warned there would be a collapse? Senator John McCain warned them in the Congress in 2006. They did nothing although Chris Dodd was getting lots of money From Angelo Monzillo and Counrtywide Mortgage. Oh yes Angelo went to jail.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

ouldn’t find McCain’s. Since our post, the McCain campaign has sent us a letter dated May 5, 2006 (pdf), and signed by the senator and 19 other Republicans. It was addressed to the Senate Republican leadership and focuses on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. "We are concerned,” the senators wrote, “that if effective regulatory reform legislation for [Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] is not enacted this year, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.” The letter called for the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act, a bill that had been introduced on Jan. 26, 2005 by Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), to be brought up for debate. About 20 days after he signed the letter, McCain became a co-sponsor of the bill.

[TheZZMan Moderator Member of the Month Sept 2018PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close TheZZMan]

Been away for a week visiting family and wanted to follow up and clarify some points from early on in this thread.

Face it those that have money are the ones that employ others, pay their wages, pay their half of taxes (yes look it up) and provide the benefits of health insurance and paid days off.

From "The Tax Foundation

The largest of these social insurance taxes are the two federal payroll taxes, which show up as FICA and MEDFICA on your pay stub. The first is a 12.4 percent tax to fund Social Security, and the second is a 2.9 percent tax to fund Medicare, for a combined rate of 15.3 percent. Half of payroll taxes (7.65 percent) are remitted directly by employers, while the other half (7.65 percent) are taken out of workers’ paychecks.

So yes, your taxes are actually larger than you realize and that burden is being shouldered by those who employ people. I am self employed and have to pay the full 15.3% tax on everything I earn in addition to regular income taxes. If I had employees, I would also have to pay for Unemployment Insurance, Workers Compensation Insurance and possibly benefits such as Health and Dental Insurance, paid days off, Family medical leave act and the list goes on.

_________________________________________

Then there is this quote that shows that once something is out there, it is believed. This has been totally debunked as a lie, part of a made up dossier paid for by Hillary Clinton in an attempt to discredit the president. Please do some research before posting known myths.

People starve so DT can hire ten prostitutes to piss on him? Fuck that. I would rather make sure everyone is fed, housed, and healthy than hold some international dick measuring contest of "check out how much money I have", especially when corporations have so much money that they can buy policy and governments. If you would rather live in autocratic oligarchy, so be it, I'm sure it will come soon enough, but lets be honest and not pretend that capitalism isn't turning your society into economic feudalism. Socialism is simply the recognition of the obscurity of this wealth and that it would be much better served fuelling things like education over say, cocaine.

[NOWHARD Banned Find all posts View Profile Close NOWHARD]

Was it not Chris Dodd and Barney Frank that let Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac run wild even though they were warned there would be a collapse? Senator John McCain warned them in the Congress in 2006. They did nothing although Chris Dodd was getting lots of money From Angelo Monzillo and Counrtywide Mortgage. Oh yes Angelo went to jail.

So CUSP is this what your getting at?
When you have government play its heavy hand, markets blow up and people get hurt. And the reason we have the housing crises we have is that the federal government played too heavy a role in our markets. The federal government came in with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and Barney Frank and Chris Dodd told banks they had to give loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back."

If this was for real, why was so many foreign banks duped into giving loans by the billions into the USA, knowing it was about to fall and go tits up that's spreading the load a bit to far.

Question have all these loans been paid back?

NOWHARD

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Simple; everyone thought the banks and lending institutions we too big to fail. Besides they were making great money on junk for a while. Get the book by Andrew Ross Sorkin; Too Big To Fail. You'll have a much better idea.

[Injoker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Injoker]

Then there is this quote that shows that once something is out there, it is believed. This has been totally debunked as a lie, part of a made up dossier paid for by Hillary Clinton in an attempt to discredit the president. Please do some research before posting known myths.

You're kind of missing the point if that's what you're taking away from that. Also, it hasn't been debunked, but I am happy to look at whatever evidence you have.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Oh that dossier thing? You mean the hing that was started by some conservatives, then dropped but picked up and paid for by the Hillary team as well as the DNC ( which were one and the same) in which Fusion GPS money was given money to give to a former British spy who paid Russians for dirt on Trump and the FBI used that to get FISA warrants to spy on Trump while one of the top FBI guys met with the head of Fusion GPS and another FBI guys wife worked there. Oh that credible document. Really?

[Injoker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Injoker]

@ Injoker:
How is it the USA's fault that other countries aren't capable of providing themselves with essential goods, dealing with government corruption, and raising their standard of living? You have plenty of small, independent countries in Europe, for example, who are able to manage themselves, yet when countries in Africa, Asia and South-America never seem to be able to get themselves out of perpetual poverty, crime and mismanagement, it supposedly is the fault of the US (or the West).

There are several countries that compete with the US economically, for example China, India, Japan and Russia, within different types of manufacturing and trade, with only the latter receiving trade sanctions, on geopolitical grounds.

Although the US is the single most powerful country, they do not hold all the power. China and Russia have been working to maintain closer trade relations with each other, the last 5 years or so, and together could hold just as powerful a negotiation card as the US.

All in all, I think it is worth to mention that current US trade policies has very little to do with furthering the interests of the average American, but furthering the interests of international companies. At least up until Trump took office, and it seems to be changing little by little now.

To your first point: There is much the US does not need to take responsibility for, but, commonly most peripheral nations make much of their money through the sale of their natural resources, or slave-wage labour. It would be naive of me to say that it is the responsibility of the US to ensure that these nations get good deals out of this trade, however, my point was that because these nations will for the most part be stuck in perpetual poverty, these trade deals keep it going. We live in an increasingly globalised world and economy. The amount of money one person can make in the states is directly proportional to how much they pay in countries where there is no minimum wage e.g sweatshops etc.

Your second point - yes, there are nations that compete with the states. In fact, China has the strongest economy in the world, the US is number 2 to them. The point here is that these nations are developed nations. They are already self sustaining. The nations that I was referring to are developing nations, peripheral nations.

Third point - If you were negotiating with China or Russia, you're right, but again, I was referring to peripheral and developing nations. Perhaps I should have been more specific.