Redefining Masculinity – Is it Time?

[TPW Senior Member Member of the Month Oct 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close TPW]

Good Morning Gentlemen and Ladies,

A friend sent me the following interesting video this morning and it got me thinking.

Without question, feminism has received the lion’s share of public attention. While I am not a feminist, I do agree that women’s social, economic, educational and political equality was (is) a necessity. We have made great strides in redefining what it means to be a woman in the 21^st Century but what of men? Isn't it time we shift our focus to assist men in their evolution? How can we peacefully co-exist if one gender is being exalted and redefined while the other is not?

I'd love to know your thoughts...


The 3 Most Damaging Words You Can Tell Your Son

There's a lot of focus on how society has treated minorities and women, but what about the flip side? What expectations do we have for the males in our society and how has that shaped their development? Within 30 seconds, find out the 3 most destructive words you can say to them.

http://youtu.be/hc45-ptHMxo


source

[kickinthemebs Senior Member Member of the Month Feb 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close kickinthemebs]

Oh damn, you always bring up great topics which if we were in person I could talk about for hours on end. Trying to put down all my opinions on such a topic will take quite a while, so I will come back to this thread when I have formulated my thoughts a bit more clearly and also when I have time to develop some points.

Great thread topic though.. In the words of Arnie: "I'll be back".

[TPW Senior Member Member of the Month Oct 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close TPW]

Oh damn, you always bring up great topics which if we were in person I could talk about for hours on end. Trying to put down all my opinions on such a topic will take quite a while, so I will come back to this thread when I have formulated my thoughts a bit more clearly and also when I have time to develop some points.

Great thread topic though.. In the words of Arnie: "I'll be back".

Well Rhino...if you would like to send me an airline ticket to lovely Ireland so that we can discuss this in person, then who am I to argue? And hey, if you could make it just in time for St. Paddy's Day, even better!

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Just think in 1963 on this day " Walk like a man" by the 4 Seasons was the number one song.

[TPW Senior Member Member of the Month Oct 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close TPW]

Just think in 1963 on this day " Walk like a man" by the 4 Seasons was the number one song.

Wow...I guess I couldn't have picked a more perfect day to address this topic, huh?

Excellent point Cusp; your perfect example further confirms just how little attention has been placed on the redefinition of masculinity for the 21st Century. It rather proves the point that in the more than 50 years since this song was a number one hit, very little has changed in the expectations of men.

http://youtu.be/0C1jj6I0eJA

[kirkoloft Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kirkoloft]

This is a touchy issue TPW, thanks for bringing it up. I believe it's taking its toll on men from all over the world not just America. I've been in more fights than I can remember, I've been arrested for assault, been depressed, angry all the time and the root of it all is that I was overcompensating for the manliness my mom unwittingly stole from me. I was always treated like a boy by her. She was so overbearing making fun of me, asking me to be a man all the time that I felt insecure all the time both as a teenager and as an adult. I remember this one time some older kids kicked my ass outside school and when I went home and told my mom about it, she gave me a beating I will never forget. "Be a man" she said, "if someone hits you, hit 'em back. Don't come to me with that anymore." Well, the truth is, I was only 9 years old and they were 13, hitting them back would have meant suicide for me. I have been aggressive my entire life and it doesn't get you anywhere in this day and age. You need to be smooth, charming, well spoken, groomed, a politician, in order to succeed in society and your relationships with others. Too bad I never learned those things. Instead, if I am faced with a gang of 5, all I can think about is how many of them I can really fuck up before they knock me out. I am 100% with you TPW, let's redefine masculinity.

[Joint-Expansion Senior Member Member of the Month August 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close Joint-Expansion]

I feel that much of these expectations placed upon men and boys has led to the disconnect within a large portion of global society in general. We are taught from an early age, even in social groups, that being tough and macho is cool, and that being sensitive and caring is a sign of weakness.

Look at the state of our world today---endless wars, famine, people on the streets, seemingly discarded. We could sure use a dose more of compassion and love in our society. Kindness & compassion has never hurt anyone.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Okay so what's so bad to "walk like a man"? What really does 'man' mean? Does it have to be about the sexes? I have never seen it that way. I have always seen it a pride, dignity, letting the world know who and what you are and that your are, as all humans, special requiring the the dignity and love from others as the Creator has given to each of us. I could be wrong, but maybe not.

[kirkoloft Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kirkoloft]

Okay so what's so bad to "walk like a man"? What really does 'man' mean? Does it have to be about the sexes? I have never seen it that way. I have always seen it a pride, dignity, letting the world know who and what you are and that your are, as all humans, special requiring the the dignity and love from others as the Creator has given to each of us. I could be wrong, but maybe not.

Good for you CUSP. You are a very wise man, you can't expect that of everyone. Things we were told as children stick with a lot of men for a better portion of their adult life. You have obviously redefined "man" for yourself as a lot of us have. This move is not about us, we know how wrong we are only after getting burnt so many times; it's about younger guys who are being brain washed by this nonsense. Spreading the awareness and passing it on to our children in hopes that posterity will have a better time than we did.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Just remember "Big girls don't cry"! It really is about how you were raised and not the stereotype.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Great topic TPW.

I believe there is a confusion being created by trying to address the emasculation of today's males. They are being told to step-up, be a man, and do what you're supposed to do. While the underlying principles behind such statements are valid, they are misinterpreted by the youth as "act tough, be strong". Instead, encouragement to embrace one's masculinity is the purpose, and not to shy away from it because it is wrong.

Then we hear that it is okay to be sensitive and caring, yet some would see this as a fault. As if that means someone is too susceptible to letting themselves be ruled by emotion, and showing empathy and compassion for fellow human beings makes you less likely to have rational judgement.

These coupled together give today's young males a sense that there is only one direction to go. I don't believe this is correct, or helpful. It places us at one end of the spectrum, with little acceptance for anything in between.

But the truth is, most of us do fall in between. Take the biggest badass you know, and put a baby in his arms. Watch him soften like melted butter. Take the most soft spoken guy you know, and back him into a corner with little to do but defend himself. He too, will show a different side.

Part of me thinks we as a society shouldn't be trying to define it at all. But, if the definition is one that lets today's young men feel more confident and secure in embracing their own good qualities, whatever they may be, and be comfortable and accepting of all our differences, then maybe we should.

[kickinthemebs Senior Member Member of the Month Feb 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close kickinthemebs]

So here are a few of my initial observations and ideas on the questions you asked. These opinions are all quite vague, theoretical, and not too expansive, but if I were to go into it in greater detail it would end up being a second thesis...

We have made great strides in redefining what it means to be a woman in the here's a lot of focus on how society has treated minorities and women, but what about the flip side?
Simone de Beauvoir wrote the Second Sex in 1949 as a way to express her views on the development of man beside the stagnated and restricted evolution of what it means to be a woman. In it she described how man has constantly reinvented itself, whereas the patriarchal system that has been in domination and control for as far back as the dawn of the civilized world, for the most part, in the predominance of the “civilized” world. [There have been matriarchal societies throughout history but for the most part it has been patriarchal society humankind has lived within]. Beauvoir contrasted the oppression of women with that of many other subjugated groups within society, such as African Americans, Jews, homosexuals and so forth. She claimed that the identity of women was always compared as the “other” to men, being described as a kind of afterthought of the definition of “man”.

What expectations do we have for the males in our society and how has that shaped their development?
Since Beauvoir’s day, women have truly caught hold of what it means to be a woman in modern society and it has enabled them to define themselves and how they can evolve, not merely being represented or confined solely by their gender or their inferiority to man. However, I believe that since Beauvoir’s time, while women have grasped hold and control of how they are to be defined, mankind (as in “man”-kind and not to be confused with humankind) has severely halted in its definition or understanding of what it means to be man. We have as a whole pigeon-holed ourselves, characterised ourselves by our innate gender confinements, merely re-jigging the age-old “be a man”, “man up”, “grow some balls”, “who is wearing the pants”, and other ridiculous gender-specific reductionist understandings of ourselves. We have not had our definition taken from us as with some oppressed groups, nor have we always had our definition enforced upon us by an outside grouping [as what women have had to endure], instead we self-imposed and self-confined ourselves within our own stagnant definition of man. It is time to move on, asides from being shaved and standing upright, I hope we have evolved from the cave-man we often so fondly base our identity roughly upon.

Isn't it time we shift our focus to assist men in their evolution?
While women have had to deal with enforcement and restriction of their identity throughout the centuries, man now needs some assistance externally with how it will evolve because it appears that if allowed to steer ourselves we often run down the same easy categorisations and stereotypes as illustrated in the video TPW put up. A large degree of human problems stem from and are exacerbated by this narrowing of identity of “man”. Politics is often dominated by force, oppression, domination, and subjugation, all things typically enforced by this identity of masculinity. I am not saying we should try to emulate women, in the same way Beauvoir explicitly said women should not try to emulate men. Instead, we should break free of this notion of constant competition and shows of strength against weakness, idealisations of the man being the one who dictates instead of converses, overpowers instead of uniting with others, and preferring others to fear rather than revere.

How can we peacefully co-exist if one gender is being exalted and redefined while the other is not?
I suppose the same way when it was reversed and women were pinned down by man’s understanding and definition of their identity – with discordance, unevenness, and lack of understanding with one another. I see man being reinvented and evolving, individuals splitting from these restrictive characterisations, so there is hope. In certain cultures the earlier male-female roles before liberation are still clearly evident, and in these instances neither have managed to develop or evolve in both their identity and in their relationship with the other. Who knows if the women in this culture want to break away from these restrictions or whether they are content remaining within them, I suppose only time will tell.

[Golf1094 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Golf1094]

Very good topic TPW and I'd like to talk about my experience in this whole "be a man" thing. Readers beware for a long post so skip mine if you don't want to read.

In my past I've been distant with people and thinking that I couldn't express myself to others about my feelings as I thought letting my guard down was like showing weakness. I had trouble making friends throughout high school and it got much worse when my parents were getting a divorce. I became even more distant. I didn't talk to anyone and looked emotionless to my family and the people around me.

I always looked like something was bugging me and I was angry about something. My mom would ask me what was bothering me but I never opened up to her for a long time because I didn't want to put my guard down. I didn't want to show any weakness. I wanted to be "strong" but looking back now I was blinded by this "be a man" ideal that opening up to others is the greatest thing to do when your in turmoil.

By the beginning of my senior year in high school (a month or two after my parents announced they were getting a divorce) I couldn't and wouldn't find anyone to talk to about these bottled up feelings and anger I had. Thoughts of suicide roamed my brain practically daily while the depression thickened. At the time there was something else that was causing my depression and that was my secret of being LGBT from everyone. I couldn't stand it anymore and there were days where I would nearly break down into tears mid-class.

One day I decided to finally lower my guard and talked to a person that who was very supportive of not only my life but the students around her that she helped. She was one of my teachers who talked with students and always was willing to give an ear to listen. I asked for some private time and she was the first person to come out to. By the end of our conversation the weight of these feelings dropped from my body and I hadn't felt this happy in a very long time. I talked also about my parent's divorce and just let everything come down. I took off the shield, all the armor and just talked. We talked for over half an hour and it was so uplifting.

The best part I think was her response at the end of the conversation was that she asked me why I came to her for opening up to her and I responded that I completely trusted her and that she didn't want me to live an unhappy life. She teared up when I said that and it was the complete truth. She was the best teacher I ever had.There were a few times where I did already talk with her about my parent's divorce prior to our big talk but they were just minimal and that if I needed to talk she would gladly listen and help out.

From there on I immediately viewed that talking with people about your emotions isn't showing a sign of weakness but making you better and trying to lighten the blow of the turmoil in one's life by talking to others. The suicidal thoughts went away rather quick and a year later here I am. I am very happy with my life and I can't be more appreciative to the help my high school teacher gave to me.

Being a man isn't something that should be thought as not being expressive about oneself and hide their feelings way for it just weakens you mentally and makes life harder.

[CUSP82 Administrator Admin of the Month Dec 2014PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close CUSP82]

Funny how much trouble the "be a man " thing caused until guy found out what "to be a man " meant! I guess maturity helps one to know what "be a man" actually means.
Okay so why is it that "Big girls don't cry?"

[kirkoloft Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kirkoloft]

Big girls don't cry? really? The do nothing BUT cry.