Something too good to be true?

[crayrobs1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crayrobs1]

hsarge, I see where you are coming from, but my concern is NOT that platelet spinning itself is new or experimental in as much as using it for penis enlargement IS new and experimental. There are vast differences between knees and ankles and penises. Outside of skin and ligaments, the rest is a completely different ball game. Expecting corpus cavernosum to respond identically to how ligaments and cartilege respond is a far stretch.

Time will tell if this is a valid approach or not, but it will take years and multiple studies to confirm the effectiveness and safety.

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

PRFM for the Penis: The Priapus Shot™

So, if the Priapus Shot ™does what it should, then using it on the penis should result in all of the following:

• Immediately larger
• Strengthen the penis
• Straighten the penis
• Increase circulation within the penis for a healthier organ.
• Make other therapies work better (if you still need Viagra or Cialis, then it will work better for you).
• Increase sensation and pleasure (helps correct the damage from diabetes).
• Proven to work in multiple studies
• Increase size by design (Can place more in base or in the head or wherever makes for best result)
• No allergic reactions (using your own body's fluids).
• No lumpiness
• Minimal pain (no burning from the PRFM since it's from your own body)
• Guaranteed

This is taken directly from your website. After stating all of these unproven benefits you end with the tag line "guaranteed". Because the word is directly following a list of "benefits" from your procedure with no break or differentiation in the subject matter basic syntax dictates that the "guarantee" is in reference to the effects of the surgery, no indication of the guarantee referring to any other matter. I understand you prefaced with the phrase, " if the Priapus Shot ™does what it should", but then end with the "guarantee" and continue with an emotional appeal. A story can make a product more interesting and more appealing, that is the point; its called marketing. If you have studies to back up your claims that is more than enough advertisement to sway someones belief.

Furthermore, the difference between Prolotherapy and PRP therapy is a matter of semantics because it is not yet a widely accepted procedure; therefore, definitions can vary. Your source at prolotherapy.com differentiates between Prolotherapy and PRP therapy, but states they are very similar. However, prolotherapy.org states, "In simple terms, PRP is a type of Prolotherapy". The "proliferant" varies among PRP and traditional prolotherapy; however, the general mechanism appears the same. This is a quote taken from a brief on Prolotherapy from UNC medical school's website: "Platelet rich plasma is a concentrate from blood that contains approximately three to five times more platelets than the normal concentration of platelets in human blood. PRP promotes several types of cell activity, including inflammation, proliferation and remodeling, all of which are necessary in wound healing." Personally, I feel there is promise with PRP therapy for tendon healing and support more research. However, I have not seen studies that support its use for penis enlargement.

I fully agree with the lack of evidence for manual penis enlargement as well, it is why I do not practice it myself. Though there is one study I am aware of for promoting the long term efficacy of pumping and one for an extender from the University of Turin, there are not enough studies to verify the efficacy or safety of manual PE exercises. However, the difference is that the people in this forum are not selling anything. The burden of proof is on you doctor, you are a member of the scientific community and should be well aware of that. I hope I do not come across as overly aggressive, but I do not see enough research evidence to support your procedure nor feel you are justified in the claims you have made on your website. If I am wrong, you should be able to link plenty of studies for our members to read.

Quote Source
http://www.med.unc.edu/fammed/for-pa...h%20Plasma.pdf

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

"As for the emotional response, I've found that Chaucer was correct; "a good message is lost without a good story." Even Christ refused to teach without telling stories. It's how we learn and I make no apology for using stories to help people understand--few can stomach a page of medical literature without a story to enlighten the numbers."

This is how we learn in a social context, not a scientific context, that is why journal articles are specifically written in a passive tone. If you had 2 studies that stated you could increase the length and girth of a penis by one inch, you would not need a penis enlargement parable.

[hsarge Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hsarge]

I detect an unfounded bitterness by Johndoe. You have 2 doctors telling you that platelet spinning is a proven medical technique with no known detrimental side effects. The discussion is if this is applicable to the penis: one doctor, Craysrob1, who is skeptical, and wants more testing and documentation; a second doctor, Runels, who wants to do more testing to establish results. Why are you so caustic? This is how innovation happens; ones attempts something, others analyze and critique the success of the attempt.

[Gyrta Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gyrta]

God. Don't know If have the energy to go threw this thread.
Yes. Stem cells is the future.
No, I don't think that you can make your dick bigger with it today.

The stem cell taken from an adult (adult stem cells) are limited and not as good as true stem cells.
There are also theories about injecting fat in the penis mixed with stem cell.

Yes, the doctor is right about stem cells and healing. They have cured blindness on a person with stem cells.
No, I don't think that the doctor is able to grow the penis using stem cell. It's much more than just injecting it, more research have to be done.

I've seen the work of stem cell. One can mix stem cell with fat injections just to make the fat to last longer.
The fat didn't grow, it may stayed a little bit longer but it didn't promote growth. The doctors used the same method as Dr Runels. (Taking fat/blood from the body and put in a centrifuge and then inject the stem cell into body again).
The doctor are just injecting a shot, not a filler that are going to "last". Since we don't know how to make stem cell to promote growth satisfully, I don't believe in the doctors shot.
It may evolves and we have something real in 5-10 years. But to make people to pay for something that doesn't work today and that needs research is bogus.

I would like the doctor to link to some reports about reports about success growing tissue with stem cell. I don't want to read about the potential of stem cell, but about actual growth in humans. It's old news that we can inject stem cells in mice and rats and cure ED and make the penis bigger...but that not humans! (and that research is far from finished). 2" is huge amount of tissue and we can't make that growth today. So please give me a link.

Also, your vampire injection. The thought is sweet. But again, the difference it makes is very very very subtle. It may promote skin rejuvenating and healing but it's very limited.
I know this because my friends father is a plastic surgeon and he inject fat in the face. (Sculptures the face). We talked about it for being a cure against acne etc. and he said that stem cell didn't have that much of impact on the skin, today.

So, all the yadayada about stem cells. Forget it, it's not a solution working today. It's a solution for the future when we already have a 12" dicks by hanging.
Sorry for the long input. I found the topic interesting but it's sad that there are people trying to making money of desperate people. (Especially if it doesn't work)

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

I'm bitter for being skeptical? I believe PRP therapy has potential and has evidence in applications for tendon and ligament healing. It is being used today on high profile athletes, but it is not standard treatment and is not widely recognized in the medical community as being efficacious. Is the reason its not accepted because it doesn't work or because there is a lack of human trials? No one knows for sure yet. If you want the truth, I tried to get PRP done to avoid my upcoming shoulder surgery after reading studies covering it for months. However, my M.D. recommended against it due to the lack of human trials and my insurance would not cover it because it is not proven to be cost effective. Cost effective is an important factor because my insurance is willing to fork out 10 times the cost for my surgery, but not a dime for PRP.

I think the reason you may feel that I am being caustic is because I find it irresponsible how he has advertised his procedure. It is EXPERIMENTAL and that fact is not spelled out very clearly on his website. If he came to this website stating he was developing a potential procedure and kept us updated with the testing and research, my opinion would be the complete opposite. Even still I welcome discussion on this topic and would like to see more studies. However, he is SELLING an EXPERIMENTAL PROCEDURE. Penis size is an emotionally driven topic and I do not feel that it is ethical to advertise an expensive, unproven procedure that may have potential risks in a manner that appeals to that emotional distress.

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

Innovation happens through clinical trials and occasionally self-experimentation, it shouldn't happen through patients who are paying out of pocket cost. Dr. Runels has stated he conducted the experiment on himself before anyone else and if that is true, I respect that and would like to see his documented photographs.

[hsarge Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hsarge]

You sound bitter to me. And, the fact that health insurance won't cover newer procedures says more about the insurance provider than the procedure. Insurance companies are the last to catch on; profit is their reason for being.

[Johndoe Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johndoe]

If you want to debate my points regarding the emotional appeal of the website or the research associated with PRP and penis enlargement I would be more than glad; however, simply claiming I am "bitter" is not going to advance the argument. If you believe that the efficacy of Dr. Runel's procedure is sufficiently evidenced, please present why you believe this to be the case and we can all have a healthy debate.

I understand your point regarding insurance companies and I agree the motivation is profit. This being said, PRP costs less than many of the surgical procedures it could replace; therefore, if it was clinically proven to have nearly the same success rate, insurance companies would take the route where they pay less money. I suppose we could continue to argue the insurance point, so I am just going to say we can agree to disagree as we are veering from the main point of this thread.

The debate is not about the legitimacy of PRP therapy for tendons and ligaments, rather its efficacy and safety for penis enlargement and Dr. Runel's claims.

[All2Real Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close All2Real]

Hello,

First, I'd like to thank the forum for giving some time to discussion of the process. I wasn't aware that it was here until someone sent me an email last night. I appreciate intelligent discussion and reading the threads is a help to me in understanding more about how to introduce the procedure when it is time.

I will answer a few questions as best I can.

First, about myself, then some about the procedure. I worked as a research chemist in the physical chemistry department of Southern Research Institute for 3 years before going to medical school. That experience opened my mind to finding a better way. To this day, US soldiers use some of the equipment that I helped develop in the area of early detection of chemical warfare agents.

Before it became as widely known, I was involved in a large study of growth hormone (with Pharmacia, when they still carried the drug, Genetropin, which they eventually sold go Pfiezer). This led to some expertise in hormone replacement and before I knew it, I had a huge practice of women coming to me for menopausal symptoms (before Suzane Sumers did her first booK). The kicker was that they would get skinny and horny and then many would leave their husbands. So, In 2004 I wrote a little book that I was just copying and giving to the women to take home to their husbands to convince them to come see me too. My patients loved it, the husbands started coming, so I self published it and from 2004 until 2008 it was the best selling sex manual on Amazon (you can see more about the book on my website).

Because of that, I had male patients come to me from all over the country. some of them reported that their penis grew when they combined the hormonal therapies with the physical exercises proposed on this site. I finally wrote a little ebook for my patients mostly to explain what the other patients were telling me.

In the mean time, I started doing some cosmetic work as well (the women would get skinny then want to reward themselves with Botox--so I learned how).

I soon had the largest botox and filler practice in my area because when I learn something I still take the approach of the research guy and go any where and read everything until I think I know as much as anyone in the world about the subject.

So, when I learned about Selphyl for the face and how it activates stem cells, I was excited about what it would do for the face but more excited about what it might do in the penis.

The best way to understand stem cells--unipotent vs totipotent is probably to read the summary on Wikipedia. Just go there and read the article about stem cells.

So, I sent out an email, just to my patients and readers offering them the shot (after I tried it on myself and found it worked). And some have come for treatment. The kits cost me a fortune so I must charge a fortune (I'm not wealthy enough yet to work for free).

Some have gotten great results some have not. Just this morning, I received this text, "Girlfriend can't walk but she keeps saying, "Wow" over and over :-)" But, I also just spoke to a patient who had great results but then it went a way after about 2 weeks.

I honestly advise anyone for whom $1,900 is a stretch of the budget to not come see me, and I'm not trying to widely recruit until I have a better feel for who will do well and who will not.

I will not treat a smoker because I have found when I treat the face the smokers get very little results (the toxins in the smoke counter act the growth factors).

some of the other issues:

My website looks home-made because I do it. I bought Front Page 98 and started putting out information for my patients and they find it helpful. Others read as well and I'm glad when they are helped but if they want something slick, they're in the wrong place. By doing it myself I can add material easily without going through someone else. I hired a web master once but the site quit sounding like me and adding material took to long so I took it back over.

As for my credentials, I've been involved in multiple research studies sponsored by pharmaceutical companies and some of that research is posted on my website.

As for the hair: that one really makes me smile. As an ER physician, and most of my life, I kept my head almost shaved and wore a tie even at night so that people would trust me quickly and I could do what I needed to do (for example I might need to do a spinal tap on a young child).

After being raped by the legal system about 10 years ago in a divorce at the same time I opened up private practice and started to do research, I sort of had a a change of heart and decided that I would just be who I am. Since my heroes since childhood have been Benjamin Franklin, Walt Whitman, Tarzan, Jesus Christ, and Leonardo da Vinci (all of whom had long hair), I just decided those who loved me would come and those who were looking for Marcu Welby and a regurgitated version of whatever propaganda the American Medical Association and the Insurance Companies were spewing that week--well they probably didn't belong in my office anyway--so I'm hopeful they find healing but I'm not the man for the job.

So, I'm not really here to defend myself of the Priapus Shot, only to say, I understand all of the opinions expressed and am grateful for all discussion. I didn't intend for it to leak out just yet. I created the web page to educate my patients and readers.

I don't know yet if this will be like Sculptra (where it takes a series of three injections), or Hyalgan (which takes a weekly injection for 5 weeks) or Synvisc which takes a series of three.

I don't know the percentage that will be helped. So far, I'm seeing about 70% who see increased size and about 90% who see increased function, but to have true statistics I need to treat at least a few hundred people--which I have not done.

Writing is difficult to demonstate tone so not sure if I'm being clear but I really am grateful for the attention and understanding of the purpose and the importance. I've treated at least 3,000 women for hormone problems and I know how often women are not satisfied with sex and how often they don't even tell their husband because they are afraid of hurting his feelings--but he knows.

I've gotten the phone calls from the guys with the penis so small that he's never had a date or so small that he knows that it's interfered with him socially. I do think family and relationships are where we find the most joy and straight up good sex helps cement the bond. It's shocking to me how few doctors will admit that and still consider a physician who practices any sort of sexual medicine a quack--it's important yet you get Viagra or Cialis or perhaps Trimix or penis implant and that's about it and that's not good enough for me or for many men.

So, yes, I'm trying to find a way. Viagra does not work for everyone, neither does trimix, and neither will the Priapus shot. Stay skeptical, the discussion is stimulating and motivating to me. I'll keep you posted by visiting the site occasionally (or you can sign up for my letter on the site).

There are many quacks in every type of medicine (unfortunately) not just penis growth. I don't want to be added to the list. But, I won't let fear of the label keep me from looking for the better way.

Oh yes, one more thing--about injecting something foreign. I understand the fear and this is where it's confusing-especially if you read some of the news reports about use in the face where the reporter got it confused. Believe me, before I injected this into a penis that worked well (my own) I read as much as I could and injected faces for 4 months. There's NEVER been any sort of allergic reaction or fibrosis with use in the face. THERE IS NO FOREIGN SUBSTANCE. A few drops of Calcium Chloride (which is what is released from the cells with injury) is added and tricks the platelets into releasing the growth factors. Adding calcium chloride is about like adding sodium chloride (table salt), it's in your body anyway. It's just that calcium chloride is normally only in contact with platelets when there's an injury--so platelets think you've been injured and release hormones (your platelets and your hormones) and then put back in to tell the penis to grow new blood flow and new corpus cavernosum.

Another way to think of it (not the same but same in that it's your stuff put back in) would be taking an egg from a woman and a sperm from a man, adding them both to a test tube, then injecting them into the woman's uterus. It's all their stuff, just processed and then put in the right place. The infertility doctor knows what to take , how to process it, and then where to put it to help the woman get pregnant-- but he's putting her stuff back in.

Same here except different stuff taking, different process, and put in different place for different reason.

OK, thanks again guys. When I finally do get all this worked out with the data published and doctors everywhere doing it, You guys can say, we roughed him up and made him stay hard and straight on task--and that's why I'm grateful.

There's a parade outside my house today, so I'm going outside to watch. Don't ever give up the quest for better sex nor underestimate it's power physically and spiritually.

Peace & Health,

Charles Runels, MD
TempleRepairdotcom

All sounds great, I wish you the best of luck and thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself and explaining the whole process. When you do succeed, your name shall ring bells all over. Good luck once again.

[tmwstw Member Find all posts View Profile Close tmwstw]

I dont know this doctor. But you guys need to cool down. He didn't come here to sell anything. He didn't start this thread. He's advertising this procedure on his website and if you're not buying it, that's fine. In my opinion 1900 is not much to have that extra 2 inches PERMANENT. He has the right to ask for that much if it's true. Penis enlargment surgery costs more than that and the result is not even permanent. He also stated even with the shot, PE is still a good way to improve.
I do agree with the skeptics out there though.I need more proof, why? Not because i want to go against his idea, but i want to believe he actually found something. I would spend 2000 for that extra 2 inches. I spend more money for my car ... dont see why i should be cheap with my lil friend.

[hsarge Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hsarge]

I have never stated that Dr. Runels procedure of injecting the penis anything but experimental. But I will not concede that platelet spinning is experimental. It has been successful in expediting healing in a number of applications without detrimental side effects. Therefore I am interested in the results that Dr. Runels can produce. It may have no effect, it may have temporary 'plumping' effects, or it might have permanent results. That is why I want the information to continue.

[Jay48 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jay48]

It would be great to see the pictures. Waiting on those still.

[crayrobs1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crayrobs1]

Several years ago now, ads for phalloplasty began to appear. The new great answer to penis enlargement. Plastic surgeons and urologists were advertising the permanent solution to a small penis. I remember the ads clearly - the promises were fantastic, and how could they be wrong? These are qualified medical surgeons doing this... right?

Wrong. These surgeons began advertising their procedures DESPITE the established medical communities concern that these were unsafe and unproven. There was no sanction from the professional associations for these procedures. Nevertheless, pandora's box had been opened, and guys were flocking in for their miracle surgery.

First came the ligament elongations, then the fat injections, later dermal transplants, turkey neck corrections, and on and on. The web sites flourished with before and after pictures... certainly the pictures told the truth, right?

Wrong again. The truth began to emerge slowly at first. Many of the surgeries went wrong. They found that the ligament lengthening procedure was causing much more scarring then predicted, and guys were ending up with penises SHORTER than what they started with. Some guys were requiring second and third surgeries to repair the first. The use of extenders and weight hanging became mandatory for "good results" after surgery. There were untold numbers of infections, much of which resulted in more loss of tissue and smaller, shorter penises, impotence, loss of work days, antibiotics and frequent visits to the doctor. Lawsuits began piling up, and the history of phalloplasty took a turn. Professional societies plead for these procedures to stop until more research could be done to find "a better way."

I tell this story to remind all of you that what often seems too good to be true, often is. Before and after pictures from Dr Runels will be interesting, but should in no way equal long-term studies and exhastive benefit/risk/safety information. Take phalloplasty as a good example...

The penis is remarkedly complex, and seems to have very little tolerance for invasive activity. Enough said.

[hsarge Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hsarge]

Craysro1: You also know that several types of penile implant surgery, while very invasive, are quite successful. First were the rigid implants, then implant using a saline pump, and refinements to the latter which includes 2-way expansion. Also there is the saphenous vein grafting now being done in Europe and Egypt. This surgeon takes a portion of the saphenous vein in the thigh (often used for heart bypass), cuts it longitudinally, makes an incision along the length of each corpus caverosa, and grafts the vein in that space. There is little difference in appearance in flaccid size but a significant increase in erect girth. This too is quite invasive. But medicine does not stand still, even in the area of erectile function. There are also injectable compounds that have been developed to create sustainable erections. The advancements in medicine in the last 50 years is absolutely amazing. And it is advancing geometrically.