Why are you here?

[TheGreatDivider Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close TheGreatDivider]

Ah, there's that Great Divider arrogance I've seen referenced elsewhere!

You say that like I should care. I don't.

Then that would be, in my case... pretty much every woman. The only reason that I've had the level of interactions I've had so far is because I ignored any standards I had for myself. The women I've been involved with, being human aside, were probably not great for me, but if not them, then who?

And how did you treat them when you met them? We're you needy around them or we're you roeved to finally be getting some pussy?

You know what? I admit that, at the heart of it, I'm the one faulty constant in all of this. I'm willing to see that I am the problem, but by that, I don't see how I, being me, whether kind romantic 16 year old or bitter twisted 40 year old, is going to solve this?

Do you even love yourself? If you don't love yourself you're not going to be very attractive to the type of women you want, and you're going to keep settling for women you don't even like. You gotta find something about you that you like that makes you feel special. That's going to be the start to developing confidence.

Personality? That must be in the same aisle the keep the 'Confidence' - in that mythical supermarket that doesn't exist.

Ok, see right there... That joke (deflection). You're funny! Go with it. I make women laugh all the time which how I win them over. I'm not even that good looking or have a lot of money but I always have a joke ready. In fact, I use a dummy account on Twitter just to work on new situational jokes and canned material.

Actually, I don't act like this IRL. I don't act like anything IRL. If I 'deserve the best', as someone above said, then where is it? If I'm supposed to be improving, then shouldn't there be some sort external signposts to let me know that I am. I don't expect the world to give me what I want, I also don't expect to have hard work not count for two-thirds of fuckall.

You definitely need to work on yourself here. Read a self improvement book or something. I'm reading Corey Wayne's "How to be a 3% man" right now and watching his videos on YouTube. Good stuff if you're looking for a girlfriend but not so much if you just want sex.

Again, you have got to snap out of this funk and find something, ONE THING, about yourself that you like. I'm telling you this because it's what works. It's what I had to do when I was at the lowest in my life and ready to end it. Just one thing that you do that no one else has to offer. Like, for myself, I'm honest. I'm brutally honest with people even if it's what they don't want to hear, it's usually what they need to hear. I like that about myself.

[Traceur77 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Traceur77]

You say that like I should care. I don't.

Honestly not caring whether you care or not. Wishing you nothing but the best, but online is the one place where I won't shut up and be quite.

Tough break with that girl by the way - classic case of immaturity, and as you noted, she has a lot of her own issues she's unwilling to address.

And how did you treat them when you met them? We're you needy around them or we're you roeved to finally be getting some pussy?

Do I admit to possibly being needy in my past relationships? Absolutely. I figured that if here is a woman who wants some level of intimacy with me, the least I can do is be a gentleman. Unfortunately, 'being a gentleman' is very close to 'being a spineless geek', and it's something I just can't seem to separate. In all of my cases, with the possible exception of the FWB scenario, it was much more relief at having female attention that it was at getting some pussy. I'm personally in a mindset at present where I just want the pussy, but as someone who isn't rich or confident built, I figure some sort of relationship development is going to have to happen whether I want it or not.

Do you even love yourself? If you don't love yourself you're not going to be very attractive to the type of women you want, and you're going to keep settling for women you don't even like. You gotta find something about you that you like that makes you feel special. That's going to be the start to developing confidence.

First up, no I don't love myself. (I don't 'love' myself either, but that's for the Gym portion of this site) I admit to it being very difficult to loving myself when no one else even sees me. My responses to that, if I were to just ignore others ignoring me, would be to either run away to an island by myself or start a species-extinction event. As I've done neither at this point, it's pretty obvious I can't ignore others ignoring me.

As to finding something about me - not sure where that would come from. Almost every attempt made in the past in the whole 'self-development' area has resulted in pretty strong signs from the world around me to shut me down. Did I quit? Yes. Why? Because I know that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Ok, see right there... That joke (deflection). You're funny! Go with it. I make women laugh all the time which how I win them over. I'm not even that good looking or have a lot of money but I always have a joke ready. In fact, I use a dummy account on Twitter just to work on new situational jokes and canned material.

It's very kind of you to note my humour. Half a lifetime of bashing keys in forums has resulted in me having a slightly higher than average success rate at sentence construction. When it comes to women, however, most don't get my humour, and those that do don't much care for it. Hence, in a relationship, I stop being funny and just become reliable. Bland. Unexciting. But hey, if in a relationship it's a choice between keeping a roof over our heads or me being an awesome sexy funny guy - I'll take the roof, thanks.

Not sure if I'm willing to engage with social media, even via a dummy account (I have a 'dumb' phone), but I applaud the work you put in.

You definitely need to work on yourself here. Read a self improvement book or something. I'm reading Corey Wayne's "How to be a 3% man" right now and watching his videos on YouTube. Good stuff if you're looking for a girlfriend but not so much if you just want sex.

I'm actually subscribed to him for a while now, and yes, I haven't read his book 10-15 times (or even once) - I can handle that he has very different politics to me, but I hear enough about how great the 1% are already, thanks.

Again, you have got to snap out of this funk and find something, ONE THING, about yourself that you like. I'm telling you this because it's what works. It's what I had to do when I was at the lowest in my life and ready to end it. Just one thing that you do that no one else has to offer. Like, for myself, I'm honest. I'm brutally honest with people even if it's what they don't want to hear, it's usually what they need to hear. I like that about myself.

It is a trait you have, as can be evidenced by this exchange. I am going through a particularly low point at present, and yes, I am re-considering plans to 'end it' - not right away, but in the future. Combined with the fact that I'm currently on enforced leave from work (despite hating my job I am a workaholic and have about 7 months of accrued Annual Leave), I'm kicking around the house (and the gym) not feeling good.

Great, more introspection's just what I need...

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Ohh I don't like how this is going .

Traceur being despondent is one thing but I hope we will hear no more talk like "end it". Gets the mods all frothy.

[Traceur77 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Traceur77]

Don't worry, it's over a year off if it is enacted. Nothing like over-planning for success.

Not wanting sympathy, or empathy, or any feelings - just actionable data. Oh, and a bigger, healthier penis.

[closed259 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close closed259]

Did I just witness a Tolstoy-long debate over the past 24 hours? Here I was trying to collect women's advice, but these walls and walls of text have effectively drowned out their voices.

To the OP: saying things like "I do not love myself" or "I will end it" are not remarks taken lightly. We don't know you personally but we would never want you to put yourself in harm's way. Have you ever considered behavioural therapy as an option to discuss these issues?

[closed251 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close closed251]

I skimmed read the other posts since I've been away and gotta say I love a foreskin and believe it should be banned the removal unless for medical reasons. A adult man should make the choice for himself.

Just putting it out there.... one ginger to another xoxo

[TheGreatDivider Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close TheGreatDivider]

Honestly not caring whether you care or not. Wishing you nothing but the best, but online is the one place where I won't shut up and be quiet.

Thanks.

Tough break with that girl by the way - classic case of immaturity, and as you noted, she has a lot of her own issues she's unwilling to address.

Yeah, it was hard breaking up with her. I was angry/depressed about it for a few weeks but now I'm over her. As tough as this breakup was dumping her boosted my confidence through the roof because I realized I deserve someone who treats me better.

Do I admit to possibly being needy in my past relationships? Absolutely. I figured that if here is a woman who wants some level of intimacy with me, the least I can do is be a gentleman. Unfortunately, 'being a gentleman' is very close to 'being a spineless geek', and it's something I just can't seem to separate. In all of my cases, with the possible exception of the FWB scenario, it was much more relief at having female attention that it was at getting some pussy. I'm personally in a mindset at present where I just want the pussy, but as someone who isn't rich or confident built, I figure some sort of relationship development is going to have to happen whether I want it or not.

Everyone gets needy at times in a relationship. It's a natural response when you're not getting your needs met and the other person isn't making you feel secure.

You can be a "gentleman" or a good guy and still get women. I know because I'm a good guy, not to be confused with a "nice guy" and still get laid. I don't treat women like crap or ghost them or anything, but don't put their crap either. And I'm not rich, or particularly good looking, in shape, and I don't have a car. But what I do have is confidence, an indifferent attitude, and a sense of humor.

What I think might help you is to get rejected and learn not take it personally. Once you get rejected enough you won't be so needy or relieved when one woman finally shows you some attention. Trust me, this works better than anything to help you stop caring. I could tell you horror stories about getting rejected that would make you say "Damn, that's painful!" Like one time I asked this girl at a college party to dance with me. She turned around and told all her friends, and I got laughed at by some 15 girls. This was like 10 years ago too. I didn't take it personally then and I'm not taking rejection personally now, because my attitude is the same. If she doesn't want me that's OK, I know I can find someone who will.

First up, no I don't love myself. (I don't 'love' myself either, but that's for the Gym portion of this site) I admit to it being very difficult to loving myself when no one else even sees me. My responses to that, if I were to just ignore others ignoring me, would be to either run away to an island by myself or start a species-extinction event. As I've done neither at this point, it's pretty obvious I can't ignore others ignoring me.

You gotta love yourself, man. You're the only one that can treat yourself like you want to be treated and the only one that can hurt yourself. If you don't love yourself women are going to pick up on it and either reject you for being insecure or take advantage of you.

As to finding something about me - not sure where that would come from. Almost every attempt made in the past in the whole 'self-development' area has resulted in pretty strong signs from the world around me to shut me down. Did I quit? Yes. Why? Because I know that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

What about your sense of humor? You could start with that and try to make yourself laugh.

It's very kind of you to note my humour. Half a lifetime of bashing keys in forums has resulted in me having a slightly higher than average success rate at sentence construction. When it comes to women, however, most don't get my humour, and those that do don't much care for it. Hence, in a relationship, I stop being funny and just become reliable. Bland. Unexciting. But hey, if in a relationship it's a choice between keeping a roof over our heads or me being an awesome sexy funny guy - I'll take the roof, thanks.

Comedy comes from pain. The best comedians in the world are the most depressing people behind the curtain. But they know how to take a bad situation and make it relatable and funny. It's be a gift of you use it the right way to lighten the mood and take away somone else's pain, or a curse if you use it to make your own sense of pain and make other like you.

I don't think I'm very funny either. I have a sense of humor between dry and witty amd shockingly offensive. I make lots of dad jokes and 90's kid references that fall flat a lot of the times. But women love it because I don't take myself too seriously or expect a laugh, which comes from being confident.

Not sure if I'm willing to engage with social media, even via a dummy account (I have a 'dumb' phone), but I applaud the work you put in.

Honestly, I just started my account on Twitter for attention and likes when my ex girlfriend was ghosting me. I only have like 18 followers and tweet to the same people everyday. I mostly make jokes or post funny clips in response, occasionally I make memes, and post uplifting comments to my favorite members who are going through tough times. I also like to get high at night at make really stupid jokes trashing celebrities just to see if I'll get hate comments, because I think I'm really funny when I'm stoned.

I'm actually subscribed to him for a while now, and yes, I haven't read his book 10-15 times (or even once) - I can handle that he has very different politics to me, but I hear enough about how great the 1% are already, thanks.

What does his politics have to do with his work? Is that an excuse not to read the book?

It is a trait you have, as can be evidenced by this exchange. I am going through a particularly low point at present, and yes, I am re-considering plans to 'end it' - not right away, but in the future. Combined with the fact that I'm currently on enforced leave from work (despite hating my job I am a workaholic and have about 7 months of accrued Annual Leave), I'm kicking around the house (and the gym) not feeling good.

So what's keeping you stuck in your job? If you hate it so much why don't you put in your two weeks notice and look for another job while you're on vacation?

[Party Senior Member Member of the Month August 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close Party]

I skimmed read the other posts since I've been away and gotta say I love a foreskin and believe it should be banned the removal unless for medical reasons. A adult man should make the choice for himself.

Just putting it out there.... one ginger to another xoxo

i wish I was intact to be sure. I regretted having my son cut but he had bladder and kidney issues so the Doc recommended it to help prevent infections.

Are your boys intact if you don’t mind me asking?

[closed251 Senior Member Member of the Month Nov 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close closed251]

i wish I was intact to be sure. I regretted having my son cut but he had bladder and kidney issues so the Doc recommended it to help prevent infections.

Are your boys intact if you don’t mind me asking?

Yes.... I don't know any men in the UK without thier hood.

It's only really the Jewish community that removes.

[closed259 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close closed259]

Yes.... I don't know any men in the UK without thier hood.

It's only really the Jewish community that removes.

And the Muslim community.

@Party: I believe circumcision is still widely practiced in the US is it not?

[Traceur77 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Traceur77]

Are your boys intact if you don’t mind me asking?

Yes, I'm intact, and I was seeking over on the 'foreskin forum' (for want of a more accurate term), I just simply don't have the life experience that others seem to have - I've yet to encounter a woman in the flesh who actually likes it, never mind a woman who is a potential mate. I don't have an issue with it's removal for cultural reasons, and, to be honest, given that my father was the first other penis I saw, and he was cut, I never understood why I wasn't. Were I to have a son, the mother would have to make a bloody compelling argument against him getting the snip - painful or no, it's an indignity I'm not sure I'd want to inflict on another man.

Just putting it out there.... one ginger to another xoxo

Damn, you do pay attention to the details. Impressive.

i wish I was intact to be sure. I regretted having my son cut but he had bladder and kidney issues so the Doc recommended it to help prevent infections.

I'm simply unable to make the mental leap to understand why. I understand that, for most women, whether it's cut or not isn't a deal-breaker, but I'm in a country where, despite it being a practice in decline, the women I'm most like to sleep with are the ones who have a preference lean toward it clean. I'm a man who believes in having every possible advantage when I enter a situation (particularly one where I have such a poor track record), and, like size, snipped is not something that works in my favour. What's the solution? Get snipped? I'm not sure I'm in the right frame of mind to make that call. Move to Europe? It would be nice to think about, but I don't see it as a viable option until I retire. Change my frame of reference? Actually, for all my snarky bitterness, that's what I'm trying to do. Just understand, I spend a lot of time in my head, running scenarios, and I've yet to encounter one that changes this one, for me.

[TheGreatDivider Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close TheGreatDivider]

Are your boys intact if you don’t mind me asking?

I am uncircumcised.

The reason why is I have a very feminist pro circumcision choice mother. She did not agree with the practice of strapping a baby to a board and cutting their foreskin against their will, when they have no idea what's going on or why they're in pain. She gave me the choice to get circumcised when I was a teenager but I turned it down.

I later leaned that the give the baby boys a glucose solution that acts like a opiate and they heal in a matter of days. The foreskins are put into incubators and can grow to the size of two basket ball courts! They use the skin for skin transplants, medical research, and cosmetic testing. But there is no real benefit or consequence to circumcision, it's just an archaic practice that used to be prescribed stop masturbation but is now a tradition.

I have 6 sexual partners, 5 of which never had a problem due to being uncircumcised. There was one ONS that refused to give me a blowjob after she put on a flavored condom and made a stink about me being uncut, but she real bitch anyways. None of the other women seemed to care about my penis so long as I could perform and give them other sources of pleasure besides penetration.

[Traceur77 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Traceur77]

Yeah, it was hard breaking up with her. I was angry/depressed about it for a few weeks but now I'm over her. As tough as this breakup was dumping her boosted my confidence through the roof because I realized I deserve someone who treats me better.

Yes, you do deserve better, and clearly you not wishing her all sorts of pain and suffering (that we're aware of, anyway) is a sign of your growing maturity.

Everyone gets needy at times in a relationship. It's a natural response when you're not getting your needs met and the other person isn't making you feel secure.

Funny, I never looked at it from that angle. My needs are often ignored in a relationship, probably more by me than by the other party. I reached the conclusion (long before I ever had a relationship) that I wouldn't seek anything from the relationship beyond the relationship itself. Me giving to it isn't an issue (although I'll admit resentment once things have ended - not during), but me wanting something 'more' than the relationship? As someone who reached them so late, and so infrequently, I was just grateful to be in a relationship.

You can be a "gentleman" or a good guy and still get women. I know because I'm a good guy, not to be confused with a "nice guy" and still get laid. I don't treat women like crap or ghost them or anything, but don't put their crap either. And I'm not rich, or particularly good looking, in shape, and I don't have a car. But what I do have is confidence, an indifferent attitude, and a sense of humor.

Well, in my case, one out of three. I'd like an indifferent attitude (and sometimes I can even summon one), and I'd really, REALLY like confidence...

What I think might help you is to get rejected and learn not take it personally. Once you get rejected enough you won't be so needy or relieved when one woman finally shows you some attention. Trust me, this works better than anything to help you stop caring. I could tell you horror stories about getting rejected that would make you say "Damn, that's painful!" Like one time I asked this girl at a college party to dance with me. She turned around and told all her friends, and I got laughed at by some 15 girls. This was like 10 years ago too. I didn't take it personally then and I'm not taking rejection personally now, because my attitude is the same. If she doesn't want me that's OK, I know I can find someone who will.

I don't bother with 'getting rejected' because I know what that tastes like all too well. So well in fact, that, as mentioned elsewhere, I stopped counting and stopped trying. Now granted, that was over 20 years ago, but nothing in that times has given me enough pause to a) throw that tally in the bin, or b) try again. Rejection is rejection is rejection. Coaches who tout shit like "never get rejected again" or "rejection-proof lines" still gloss over the truth - that rejection will still occur. Taking it personally? It's hard not to take it personally. In fact, screw rejection, I'd just like to be looked at like a 'man' - a male sexual being - by women. I'm honestly in awe of you reaching that mindset of being able to move on, but for me, it's a Venn diagram where 'asking women out' and 'rejection' have a 100% overlap.

You gotta love yourself, man. You're the only one that can treat yourself like you want to be treated and the only one that can hurt yourself. If you don't love yourself women are going to pick up on it and either reject you for being insecure or take advantage of you.

See, I hear this a lot, but a lifetime of negative external influences have undermined efforts. Even in case where people claim to have wanted to help me (my room mate in Hong Kong springs to mind), their methods have been derisive of me and led to any confidence I'd gained being eroded.

What about your sense of humor? You could start with that and try to make yourself laugh.

This actually produced a snicker - well done, Sir.

I don't think I'm very funny either. I have a sense of humor between dry and witty amd shockingly offensive. I make lots of dad jokes and 90's kid references that fall flat a lot of the times. But women love it because I don't take myself too seriously or expect a laugh, which comes from being confident.

We seem to have similar styles of humour, although many of my jokes/observations simply go over the heads of others.

You've got the confidence down though.

What does his politics have to do with his work? Is that an excuse not to read the book?

Fair point.

So what's keeping you stuck in your job? If you hate it so much why don't you put in your two weeks notice and look for another job while you're on vacation?

People have needs like housing and electricity and food. Last time I checked, I'm a people. Simple cost-benefit analysis says working a job I hate is safer than quitting it and finding another job I'll hate.

[TheGreatDivider Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close TheGreatDivider]

I'm simply unable to make the mental leap to understand why. I understand that, for most women, whether it's cut or not isn't a deal-breaker, but I'm in a country where, despite it being a practice in decline, the women I'm most like to sleep with are the ones who have a preference lean toward it clean. I'm a man who believes in having every possible advantage when I enter a situation (particularly one where I have such a poor track record), and, like size, snipped is not something that works in my favour. What's the solution? Get snipped? I'm not sure I'm in the right frame of mind to make that call. Move to Europe? It would be nice to think about, but I don't see it as a viable option until I retire. Change my frame of reference? Actually, for all my snarky bitterness, that's what I'm trying to do. Just understand, I spend a lot of time in my head, running scenarios, and I've yet to encounter one that changes this one, for me.

You care way too much about what women think of you...

What are you going to do after you get circumcised and women still reject you? Or you go out and get a $50 haircut, $300 worth of designer clothes, and lease a car you can't afford just to impress chicks and it doesn't work. Or you manage to get attention from gold diggers and single moms looking to use you for your assets. This is the kind of stuff you need to be thinking about now before you jump into another relationship.

The reason I'm telling you to work on yourself and love yourself is so you don't make the mistake of trying to too hard to impress women and make them like you, jump into a relationship with the next woman that's just a little bit nice to you. Because when you sell yourself by trying to impress women you convey the message that you're not good enough for them, or that you're not good enough for anyone better so you'll take whatever you can get.

Again, you don't have to be a jerk or use manipulative PUA tactics for this to work. You just have to stop caring about what women think of you or what you can to do to make them like you. Because women are more impressed by your personality traits than your possessions, which is why the non needy fun guy never has the problems with women but the try hard "nice guy" does. This also why men who have given up on finding women and chose to focus on their own careers and happiness report having better success with women, because they're more attractive and have a better attitude in general.

[TheGreatDivider Senior Member Member of the Month Dec 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close TheGreatDivider]

Yes, you do deserve better, and clearly you not wishing her all sorts of pain and suffering (that we're aware of, anyway) is a sign of your growing maturity.

That's because I don't... And she has problems. She's either a narcissist or a borderline, and is repeating the same relationship cycle with the new guy. I've dated his like her before and been heartbroken by their actions. I don't take it personally anymore, I just leave and move on.

Funny, I never looked at it from that angle. My needs are often ignored in a relationship, probably more by me than by the other party. I reached the conclusion (long before I ever had a relationship) that I wouldn't seek anything from the relationship beyond the relationship itself. Me giving to it isn't an issue (although I'll admit resentment once things have ended - not during), but me wanting something 'more' than the relationship? As someone who reached them so late, and so infrequently, I was just grateful to be in a relationship.

That's how it always goes for someone with codependency issues or insecurities in a relationship. When you find yourself with someone who doesn't appreciate you or meet your needs you get needy. But instead of leaving you try harder to get your needs met which doesn't work, especially when you're just dating and you feel like you're being discarded after 4-6 months.

Well, in my case, one out of three. I'd like an indifferent attitude (and sometimes I can even summon one), and I'd really, REALLY like confidence...

I don't bother with 'getting rejected' because I know what that tastes like all too well. So well in fact, that, as mentioned elsewhere, I stopped counting and stopped trying. Now granted, that was over 20 years ago, but nothing in that times has given me enough pause to a) throw that tally in the bin, or b) try again. Rejection is rejection is rejection. Coaches who tout shit like "never get rejected again" or "rejection-proof lines" still gloss over the truth - that rejection will still occur. Taking it personally? It's hard not to take it personally. In fact, screw rejection, I'd just like to be looked at like a 'man' - a male sexual being - by women. I'm honestly in awe of you reaching that mindset of being able to move on, but for me, it's a Venn diagram where 'asking women out' and 'rejection' have a 100% overlap.

Until you get rejected and learn to be OK with it you can't understand the power of indifference. You talk a lot about how men should act, well men deal with rejection constantly and don't let it bother them. You have to learn how to take rejection and not take it personally, and learn how to reject others without making it seem personal. You ever reject a gorgeous woman by telling them something like "No matter what happens we're never having sex." They flip out on you and barrage you questions about why you don't like them because they're not used to rejection. Meanwhile your average guy gets rejected hundreds of time in his lifetime and it completely OK with it.

See, I hear this a lot, but a lifetime of negative external influences have undermined efforts. Even in case where people claim to have wanted to help me (my room mate in Hong Kong springs to mind), their methods have been derisive of me and led to any confidence I'd gained being eroded.

You have to want to help yourself.

People have needs like housing and electricity and food. Last time I checked, I'm a people. Simple cost-benefit analysis says working a job I hate is safer than quitting it and finding another job I'll hate.

You have several months of vacation time and a job waiting for you to return. Plenty of time to get your resume together, apply for jobs on indeed, monster, and careerbuilder, and interview for other jobs. And if you don't get accepted that's just more experience you need dealing with rejection and not taking it personally. Although, ideally you should be applying to 20-30 jobs a week and keeping the attitude that if one job doesn't want you the next job will. But it's much easier to find a job when you already have another job, it's like finding a woman to sleep with you when you bring a female friend with you to a bar.