Gaining Muscle Mass w/o Steriods

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Its funny pressbehind neck was popular back in the day now it is rarely used . It came out from the physio etc that it was bad for shoulders . I don't remember this coming up from the guys that actually did the lift . I remember Oly lifting being mentioned in regard shoulder injury from guys on the floor. In any case there are alternatives and I no longer do pbh.

[C.G Member Find all posts View Profile Close C.G]

There was nothing logical about that statement. If logic is not grounded in science, it's not logical.

Can you please come up with counteractant statement which has scientific proof for my previous statement?

Personal preference and goals.

That did not answer my question.

You're speaking out of your ass.

Do you even know what a 2 days split workout is?? If so ( I'm really not sure that you have an idea about it) can you please tell me why would 2 days split workout wont fit his " preferences and goals"?

I'm sorry, but I didn't say they weren't important ... I said they are not large enough to elicit a significant metabolic response. The legs are large. The abdominals are not. Lower body work can give you a testosterone boost which will aid in growing your body overall. That is an example of an actual benefit. Not abdominals and magic metabolic boosts.

You are just plain stupid if you wanna be rude about my advice on doing abs workout every other day, beyond his workout routine which will involve the other groups of muscles. I suggest you to quit with the bullshit when saying that abs workout doesnt boost your metabolic rate as long as every god damn muscle exercise that you do, no matter the muscle group, will benefit you with metabolic increase. And before throwing him into doing squats and deadlifts you might suggest him to build up his middle section for an improved posture and strength, weak abs and lower back will definately be a disadvantage.

Not abdominals and magic metabolic boosts.

I beg you, come with clinical evidence against it.

Aerobic exercises dont destroy muscle tissue( unless you are facken starving yourself) where did you learn that? He'd be good with a 10 mins warm up before workout and a 10 mins cooldown with aerobic exercises, nothing intense, especially when he didnt suffer major weight changes, muscle mass gains. Dont push the limit where you dont need to in respect to your own facken health concerns.

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

Can you please come up with counteractant statement which has scientific proof for my previous statement?

What?

That did not answer my question.

Yes, it did.

Do you even know what a 2 days split workout is?? If so ( I'm really not sure that you have an idea about it) can you please tell me why would 2 days split workout wont fit his " preferences and goals"?

Yes, I know what a two-day split is. I didn't say a two-day split would't fit his goals. I'm saying that telling him a two-day split is his only option is simply incorrect. And all the other nonsense you harked on about regarding anything that wasn't your magical two-day training period.

You are just plain stupid if you wanna be rude about my advice on doing abs workout every other day, beyond his workout routine which will involve the other groups of muscles.I suggest you to quit with the bullshit when saying that abs workout doesnt boost your metabolic rate as long as every god damn muscle exercise that you do, no matter the muscle group, will benefit you with metabolic increase. And before throwing him into doing squats and deadlifts you might suggest him to build up his middle section for an improved posture and strength, weak abs and lower back will definately be a disadvantage.

Nobody said not to work out abs. I was pointing out that your theory that working out abs will give you any significant metabolic boost is, in fact, utter bullshit. If you meant something else, then don't say stupid things. This has nothing to do with the recommendation of deadlifts and squats, which is an entirely unrelated topic that you are now grouping into your bro science rant trying to make it work to your advantage ... an argument you simply pulled out of your ass. If you don't want to be attacked, don't make things up. You're also under the horribly misguided impression that the "core" is just the abdominals. It's comprised of quite a few muscles that act as a stabilizing mechanism for the upper and lower halves of the body and stabilizing the spine. Deadlifts strengthen the lower back to a greater degree than any other exercise. Squats, when done properly with good form, also help to strengthen the posterior chain. The biomechanical benefits of the squat not only strengthen your lower body, but also your core. If you master the squat, you will gain tremendous core strength and a host of other benefits. When I train clients for the first time, I have them do various squatting motions ... with both legs ... single legs ... etc. and by a few basic movements, I'm able to tell where most of their muscular imbalances are occurring. From there I help fix their imbalances to bring their biomechanics into equilibrium ... and then progress them into the appropriate routine based on their goals. You can tell a lot about a person just based on simple squatting motions.

I'm done going back and forth on things that I mistakenly thought were common sense. I speak from a position of scientifically-based research and experience. You can be upset all you want, but please leave the pseudo bro-science nonsense somewhere else. I'm done responding to you. Explaining basic principles of exercise science repeatedly is tiresome.

Its funny pressbehind neck was popular back in the day now it is rarely used . It came out from the physio etc that it was bad for shoulders . I don't remember this coming up from the guys that actually did the lift . I remember Oly lifting being mentioned in regard shoulder injury from guys on the floor. In any case there are alternatives and I no longer do pbh.

Yes, a lot of things have changed. I'm glad a lot more therapists are chiming in on the subject of weightlifting. Our rotator cuffs are happier for it.

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

@ XLEdwards:: A book I would highly recommend getting is Starting Strength, by Mark Rippetoe. It's basically the bible on proper lifting form and also includes basic routines to get you started on your journey. It'll help you spot and correct bad technique. I keep coming back to it time and time again. The information is very thorough and it will give you a much better understanding of the biomechanics involved in each of the big lifts (deadlifts, squats, etc.).

[thenewdude Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close thenewdude]

Right, sorry, I'm 23 so I'm still pretty young lol. I lift fairly heavy, usually heavy enough that I can do 5 good reps before struggling. However, the cardio portion of my exercises, I'm pushing to get a lean build going; V-Cut and all, so I'd like to keep that up. If doing that, shouldn't I eat more carbs/calories then I'm burning?

You need to keep the carbs up definitely with a good healthy protein (at least 60 grams per day). I will say that if you are looking for a great v-shape and a nice cut strong body then lower the weight some and do more reps slowly building more weight keeping the same reps and sets according to muscle group. I am telling you this as a former weight trainer. Lower reps and more weight is for power lifting.

[gingernuts Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gingernuts]

I've got my copy ready to re-read on a 5 hour bus journey down to London next week. Need to brush up on my bench and low-bar squat form.

Even if you don't follow the Starting Strength routine OP, the book is a great reference for form on the major exercises.

Plus it helps that Rippetoe has a really dry, funny sense of humour in his writing style...

"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general."

"I recommend against a wooden squat rack, for much the same reason that I recommend against a wooden car. "

In response to a guy complaining that his leg curl weight hasn't increased since he started deadlifting:
"That's like bitching about masturbation not being fun anymore since you started dating a porn star"

"It is important to always stay within your comfort zone. This prevents having to subject oneself to the inconvenience of learning something new and potentially useful."

"If you insist on wearing training gloves, make sure they match your purse."

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

I really love his humor, too. Makes for easy reading.

[C.G Member Find all posts View Profile Close C.G]

One more thing that I would like to add is do your abs workout about every other day. Abs exercising is known for metabolism boost.

This is utter nonsense. Working your abdominals isn’t going to ignite some kind of magical metabolic boost. They’re not a large enough muscle group to have any significant effect on metabolism to make a claim of any metabolic boost unto themselves. Working the body as a whole is what should be the main focus if increased metabolic efficiency is the goal. The body wants to adapt and work and grow as a whole … so incorporating compound movements such as deadlifts, squats, bench press, etc. will have the most benefit for increasing your basal metabolic rate.

I'm sorry, but I didn't say they weren't important ... I said they are not large enough to elicit a significant metabolic response. The legs are large. The abdominals are not. Lower body work can give you a testosterone boost which will aid in growing your body overall. That is an example of an actual benefit. Not abdominals and magic metabolic boosts.

Nobody said not to work out abs. I was pointing out that your theory that working out abs will give you any significant metabolic boost is, in fact, utter bullshit. If you meant something else, then don't say stupid things. This has nothing to do with the recommendation of deadlifts and squats, which is an entirely unrelated topic that you are now grouping into your bro science rant trying to make it work to your advantage ... an argument you simply pulled out of your ass

Why would he take a 3 day routine and break it into a 5 day routine? I dont get your point, imo its a waste of time. A 2 days split workout will be his best choice.

Yes, I know what a two-day split is. I didn't say a two-day split would't fit his goals. I'm saying that telling him a two-day split is his only option is simply incorrect.

First of all, you have a degree in physics, good for you, why do argue with me when I tell him to be consistent with abs workout once at every 2 days beyond his gym workout, when science says that to have a metabolic increase you must be consistent with your physical training?
Why would he ignore that 10 mins routine of abdominal training when it is maintaining his core strength to good condition as well?
And 2 day split workout would have him workout 2 times a week lower body and a 2 days rest for his lower body muscle groups inbetween workouts, that is why I said that it is best choice he's got, you should've know allmithy trainer what I am drillin about. But I did not said that it is his only choice, now, you see you've been talking out of your ass the whole time, always beating the stick around the bush.
Besides, compound mechanics are found both in basic and auxiliary exercises, should you be specific about what type exercises should he do? Because compound mechanics are many in basic exercises and some in auxiliary exercises.

[C.G Member Find all posts View Profile Close C.G]

One more thing that I would like to add is do your abs workout about every other day. Abs exercising is known for metabolism boost.

This is utter nonsense. Working your abdominals isn’t going to ignite some kind of magical metabolic boost. They’re not a large enough muscle group to have any significant effect on metabolism to make a claim of any metabolic boost unto themselves. Working the body as a whole is what should be the main focus if increased metabolic efficiency is the goal. The body wants to adapt and work and grow as a whole … so incorporating compound movements such as deadlifts, squats, bench press, etc. will have the most benefit for increasing your basal metabolic rate.

I'm sorry, but I didn't say they weren't important ... I said they are not large enough to elicit a significant metabolic response. The legs are large. The abdominals are not. Lower body work can give you a testosterone boost which will aid in growing your body overall. That is an example of an actual benefit. Not abdominals and magic metabolic boosts.

Nobody said not to work out abs. I was pointing out that your theory that working out abs will give you any significant metabolic boost is, in fact, utter bullshit. If you meant something else, then don't say stupid things. This has nothing to do with the recommendation of deadlifts and squats, which is an entirely unrelated topic that you are now grouping into your bro science rant trying to make it work to your advantage ... an argument you simply pulled out of your ass

Why would he take a 3 day routine and break it into a 5 day routine? I dont get your point, imo its a waste of time. A 2 days split workout will be his best choice.

Yes, I know what a two-day split is. I didn't say a two-day split would't fit his goals. I'm saying that telling him a two-day split is his only option is simply incorrect.

First of all, you have a degree in physics, good for you, why do argue with me when I tell him to be consistent with abs workout once at every 2 days beyond his gym workout, when science says that to have a metabolic increase you must be consistent with your physical training?
Why would he ignore that 10 mins routine of abdominal training when it is maintaining his core strength to good condition as well?
And 2 day split workout would have him workout 2 times a week lower body and a 2 days rest for his lower body muscle groups inbetween workouts, that is why I said that it is best choice he's got, you should've know allmithy trainer what I am drillin about. But I did not said that it is his only choice, now, you see you've been talking out of your ass the whole time, always beating the stick around the bush.
Besides, compound mechanics are found both in basic and auxiliary exercises,

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

You have zero reading comprehension.

[C.G Member Find all posts View Profile Close C.G]

One more thing that I would like to add is do your abs workout about every other day. Abs exercising is known for metabolism boost.

This is utter nonsense. Working your abdominals isn’t going to ignite some kind of magical metabolic boost. They’re not a large enough muscle group to have any significant effect on metabolism to make a claim of any metabolic boost unto themselves. Working the body as a whole is what should be the main focus if increased metabolic efficiency is the goal. The body wants to adapt and work and grow as a whole … so incorporating compound movements such as deadlifts, squats, bench press, etc. will have the most benefit for increasing your basal metabolic rate.

I'm sorry, but I didn't say they weren't important ... I said they are not large enough to elicit a significant metabolic response. The legs are large. The abdominals are not. Lower body work can give you a testosterone boost which will aid in growing your body overall. That is an example of an actual benefit. Not abdominals and magic metabolic boosts.

Nobody said not to work out abs. I was pointing out that your theory that working out abs will give you any significant metabolic boost is, in fact, utter bullshit. If you meant something else, then don't say stupid things. This has nothing to do with the recommendation of deadlifts and squats, which is an entirely unrelated topic that you are now grouping into your bro science rant trying to make it work to your advantage ... an argument you simply pulled out of your ass

Why would he take a 3 day routine and break it into a 5 day routine? I dont get your point, imo its a waste of time. A 2 days split workout will be his best choice.

Yes, I know what a two-day split is. I didn't say a two-day split would't fit his goals. I'm saying that telling him a two-day split is his only option is simply incorrect.

First of all, you have a degree in physics, good for you, why do argue with me when I tell him to be consistent with abs workout once at every 2 days beyond his gym workout, when science says that to have a metabolic increase you must be consistent with your physical training?
Why would he ignore that 10 mins routine of abdominal training when it is maintaining his core strength to good condition as well?
And 2 day split workout would have him workout 2 times a week lower body and a 2 days rest for his lower body muscle groups inbetween workouts, that is why I said that it is best choice he's got, you should've know allmithy trainer what I am drillin about. But I did not said that it is his only choice, now, you see you've been talking out of your ass the whole time, always beating the stick around the bush.

[C.G Member Find all posts View Profile Close C.G]

w/e, it really upset me your attitude, not your knowledge. screw you

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Guys be mellow .

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Ok. I'm not going to even attempt to dig use this piss ing match.

The right amount of days to lift would be what you can schedule in without putting an unreasonable burden on yourself.

Figure this out first. How much time do you really have to spend at the gym?

Next you must determine a reasonable goal (short term goal)

3rd thing is to do it. Get in the gym and prove to you that you will stick it out.

You can read and research as you train.

Guys here arguing over how many days, how many body parts to work and how to do cardiovascular are not really helping the op.

If you make a routine that is not reasonable for you or your schedule you will fail without question.

If your working on a highway paving crew six days a week for 12 hours a day you can't do a 5 day split.

If you work every other day for 6 hours you have time for just about anything.

Figure these things out and then take it from there.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

C.G. and Teddy, you'd both better quit now.

This is usually what happens when weight lifting comes up. You have both given some good and some not so good advice.

The arguing between you two is done. You can stop yourselves or I can do it for you.