Gaining Muscle Mass w/o Steriods

[kickinthemebs Senior Member Member of the Month Feb 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close kickinthemebs]

This is why I avoid weightlifting forums like the plague, every guy thinks he knows more about it than Ronnie Coleman...

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

I'm sorry, but I cannot tolerate misinformation or the giving of misinformation. I don't think anyone should ... and I don't think any one of you would tolerate someone giving bad PE advice. You would stomp it out in a heartbeat. This wasn't a pissing match. I'm not trying to be right, I'm trying to inform. But when someone is willfully ignorant, the debate becomes circular and pointless. So I'm bowing out of this thread.

This is why I avoid weightlifting forums like the plague, every guy thinks he knows more about it than Ronnie Coleman...

Nobody is claiming to know more than an 8-time Olympia champion, but he also had a trainer named Brian Dobson. You'd be surprised how many of the Pros have trainers. What the Pros possess is the ability to listen and work their asses off on a scale most people are not capable of. That's what sets them apart. Pure, unadulterated dedication to their passion.

Anyway, good luck to you on your goals, OP. I'll probably PM you some goodies later.

[C.G Member Find all posts View Profile Close C.G]

I'm sorry, but I cannot tolerate misinformation or the giving of misinformation. I don't think anyone should ... and I don't think any one of you would tolerate someone giving bad PE advice. You would stomp it out in a heartbeat. This wasn't a pissing match. I'm not trying to be right, I'm trying to inform. But when someone is willfully ignorant, the debate becomes circular and pointless. So I'm bowing out of this thread.

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[akaTrex Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close akaTrex]

Staying out of this Pissing Match!


My advice is to check out this site.

Scooby's Workshop | Home Fitness & Bodybuilding Workouts

Check out the column on the right:

Workout Plans (24)

• The Best Workout
• Custom Workout Plans

Great Information IMHO.. Give it a TRY!


Oh and again IMHO...Avoid Bodybuilding.com The Law Suits are Piling Up on good ole Bodybuilding.com

Just Google "bodybuilding com lawsuit"

JUST Saying!

[shoes4me Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shoes4me]

There's a lot of good information out there and I think some people have already covered this, but here are my 2c based on both my personal experience and those I know:

1) Eat more calories than you burn. This is the most important thing you can do. If you don't eat enough, your body won't build muscle.

2) Do squats and deadlifts and lift heavy. You will not get the same results by doing isolation exercises like curls. Squats and deadlifts not only work out your entire body and core, but also target the biggest muscle groups in your body, releasing testosterone and other growth hormones. It also works out your central nervous system.

3) Be consistent. Just like PE, results take time and you need to be consistent in order to see results. Stick to a good powerlifting program, such as a 5x5 program (there are several variations out there, I chose Stronglifts) and I guarantee you will see results in as little as 3 months if you stick to it and eat right. Frankly, there are so many different workouts out there, all of which will net you returns if you're consistent. Find one that works for you and stick to it and you will see results! Don't get caught up in new workouts that promise faster results. The only real variation here is you. Because at the end of the day everyone responds to workouts differently. What we can control, however, is the quality of our workouts (form) and consistency, as well as the food we eat and the sleep we get.

4) Focus on warming up before every workout, just like PE. Look into dynamic stretches as opposed to static stretches. There is research out there that indicates static stretches reduces your effectiveness by up to 10% if done before lifting. I like to jump rope and row before each workout. Then do dynamic stretches. Then foam roll. I spend about 30 minutes warming up before every squat session. I know that sounds like a lot of time, but believe me when I say, you will reap the benefits of warming up properly and your lifts will skyrocket.

5) Form is super important. I die a little inside each time I see someone squatting 225 but going only halfway down. Some people squat in such a way where they are putting unecessary strain on their lower backs. I highly recommend you read Starting Strength (look it up on Amazon) to understand how lifts work.

It's not rocket science! But the fitness industry is a big business so I can understand how someone just starting out can be overwhelmed will all the stuff out there.

I started squatting with just a 45 pound bar last year around this time, and now I'm warming up with 225's and repping 300. I didn't miss a workout for 3 months, after which I had gained 10 pounds of lean muscle. Unfortunately, I didn't focus on warming up and or keeping good form, and injured myself. Took me about 3 months to fully recover but have since gained 20 additional pounds of lean muscle.

[akaTrex Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close akaTrex]

Squats increase testosterone and growth hormone
Well yes and no. I saved this one till last because this one causes lots of confusion. The squat advocates would have you believe that only squats can increase testosterone and growth hormone which allows the entire body to pack on massive amounts of muscle mass. Lets look at the facts first. Yes, all types of strenuous resistance training (not just squats) cause a temporary increase in testosterone and growth hormone – a few hours to a day. The big question is if this temporary spike is enough to make a difference in the ability of your body to add muscle, more on this later.

Source: Squat Myths - Scooby's Home Workouts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2JPn6gbKM

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Leg press smeg press ^.

[shoes4me Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shoes4me]

The squat advocates would have you believe that only squats can increase testosterone and growth hormone which allows the entire body to pack on massive amounts of muscle mass.

I'd be cautious of anyone using extreme language such as only, regardless of what they're advocating, whether that be squats, leg presses, or wet jelqs.

To your point about testosterone. Yes, the release is temporary. However, the squat works out the entire body, not just the quads or hamstrings or glutes individually. Leg press workouts tend to isolate each of those muscle groups depending on the angle and position of the user. Which may eventually lead to muscle imbalances.

Will people get results with leg presses? Yes, of course. I think it boils down to the individual and his goals. Also, we all respond differently to diet and exercise.

If someone simply wants to stay in shape and reduce the likelihood of injury or has a bad back, I'd probably recommend leg presses, with a grain of salt, since I am not a professional fitness coach. If someone else wanted to maximize their gains and reach new levels of strength, I'd recommend squatting. It's just an excellent workout for building out the entire body and addresses muscle imbalances if done correctly. Core, posterior chain, quads, glutes, hams, calfs, ankles, shoulders, delts and the central nervous system all must work in tandem to complete a good squat. Not to mention it requires flexibility and mobility to be done correctly. It's a good workout that, if done correctly, really helps to build strength and muscle naturally.

I think squats sometimes get a bad rap because they are oftentimes done poorly, resulting in injury. People will squat way too heavy because they want to look tough in the gym, when they should probably be squatting 50% less of what they're doing. As an analogy, imagine if a newbie PE'er started hanging exercises or clamping without warming up or conditioning his dick. What do you think would happen? If he got injured, I'd say it'd be unreasonable for him to jump to the conclusion that PE was a scam or ineffective.

[akaTrex Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close akaTrex]

Great Rules to Squat By:

• you are over 18 and under 40 years old
• you have been trained by a professional trainer or power lifting coach
• you, your parents, and your grandparents have no history of back problems
• you have a squat cage with safety catch bars set at hip height or higher
• Otherwise, skip the squats and use leg machines and play sports!

[aBone2pick Senior Member Member of the Month July 2014 Find all posts View Profile Close aBone2pick]

Squats are fine. Don't avoid squats just because of the naysayers. It should also be said that you do NOT need to be able to squat that mich weight to have really badass quads. On most leg days, I don't lift heavier than 225lbs and my quads are seriously massive. To get a comparable burn from a leg press machine, it takes at least 550+ pounds.

I would say that it's probably possible to get respectable size legs without ever lifting more than 135lbs for like 20-30 reps over 4 sets a workout. As fsr as the whole testosterone thing, that kind of seems like bs to me. I'm sure there are tons of other ways to stimulate the production of HGH and T.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

great rules to squat by:

• you are over 18 and under 40 years old
• you have been trained by a professional trainer or power lifting coach
• you, your parents, and your grandparents have no history of back problems
• you have a squat cage with safety catch bars set at hip height or higher
• otherwise, skip the squats and use leg machines and play sports!

no .

[akaTrex Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2016 Find all posts View Profile Close akaTrex]

Squats are fine. Don't avoid squats just because of the naysayers. It should also be said that you do NOT need to be able to squat that mich weight to have really badass quads. On most leg days, I don't lift heavier than 225lbs and my quads are seriously massive. To get a comparable burn from a leg press machine, it takes at least 550+ pounds.


I would say that it's probably possible to get respectable size legs without ever lifting more than 135lbs for like 20-30 reps over 4 sets a workout. As fsr as the whole testosterone thing, that kind of seems like bs to me. I'm sure there are tons of other ways to stimulate the production of HGH and T.

Don't get me wrong. I do squat but never over 225 now. I used to squat well into the Ugly plate range. My lower back gave me issues so I turned to the leg press.


Now no where as heavy as I used to. Working up to Ugly range was a normal workout on leg press. Years ago twice a month going up to Un-Godly Ugly range . We called it the Marty Feldman Workout.


An MRI a year ago showed the damage I had done to my knees and hips.


Now I'm a much smarter lifter and I check my ego at the door when I enter the gym.

[shoes4me Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shoes4me]

Don't get me wrong. I do squat but never over 225 now. I used to squat well into the Ugly plate range. My lower back gave me issues so I turned to the leg press.

It's smart listen to your body and adjust your workouts accordingly. Did you try using a belt? I started using a belt once I hit 225 and I've had no lower back issues. Again, would like to emphasize everybody's different, but I'm just curious if you tried.

An MRI a year ago showed the damage I had done to my knees and hips.

Back and hip issues are no joke, but to play devil's advocate, are you certain that the damage done can be attributed to squatting?

Now I'm a much smarter lifter and I check my ego at the door when I enter the gym.

People get injured all the time doing all sorts of things. Working out smart is the only way to go. Regardless of the activity, whether running, swimming, x-fit or squatting, listening to one's body is the right approach.

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

Squats, when done properly, de-load the knees (hips below the patella). If you had knee issues from squats, you were doing them wrong. You can be missing an ACL and have no issues when doing proper squats with proper depth. However, due to the variance and uniqueness of biomechanics, some people are not genetically built for weighted bar squats. In order to find that out, you would need a professional to analyze your squat form. If this is the case for you, there are plenty of variations to the squat that can be done. Leg press ... or machines in general however ... tend to force you into the plane of motion set by the machine ... and ignores the natural movement of your body's biomechanics ... which can lead to problems later on. So I will always advocate free weights over machines in most cases. Sometimes machines serve a good purpose, such as cable pulley machines or ones that aren't doing too much to your natural bodily planes of motion ... such as calf raise machines. Those are more of an up/down movement, but your calves are still mostly free to do what calves do. Stay away from Smith Machines for squats at all costs. They wreak havoc on your joints.

All the attacks that squats receive comes from a lack of fundamental understanding of the biomechanics involved in the squat ... and people not understanding that it's a full body movement that requires your full attention. The human body will adjust to exercise due to the nervous system's ability to adapt to repetitive movement. So whether you are doing bad form or good form ... the good or bad form will become your "normal" ... your body will adjust ... and it will either get better or worse from there. Continuous bad form over years of practicing bad form will only compound and become worse.

Since it's hard for most people to spot and correct bad form, it is highly advised to find a reputable trainer or coach that knows proper form and have them help you. Learning proper form before you train your body wrong is a lot easier than correcting bad form later on. So learn good form, leave your ego out of the issue, and stay safe. If you are not able to perform squats properly due to muscular imbalances, joint impingements, chronic pain, or just biomechanics that don't allow you to perform the movement properly (such as bones that are too long that throw off the proper balance), then find alternatives.

[Jaw Breaker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jaw Breaker]

Great article: Why Should I Use "Good" Form if I'm Stronger With "Bad" Form? - Bret Contreras

Great Rules to Squat By:

• you are over 18 and under 40 years old
• you have been trained by a professional trainer or power lifting coach
• you, your parents, and your grandparents have no history of back problems
• you have a squat cage with safety catch bars set at hip height or higher
• Otherwise, skip the squats and use leg machines and play sports!

More like rubbish rules to squat by. There is zero evidence to suggest children under 18 shouldn't do squats. They do not impinge growth and they don't negatively effect teenagers in some magical way that would be a cause for concern. Like any exercise, they should be done with proper form and safety at all cost. The only time exercise can effect children that are still growing is if they get injured and effect the bones of the body while they are still trying to fuse. If proper form is practiced, there is nothing to worry about.

I agree that since squats are a particularly complex movement that can take a year or more to perfect, having a trainer or coach guide you and your form is a smart idea.

The history of back problems comment is utter rubbish. When proper squats are performed and practiced, they can significantly strengthen the posterior chain ... and help strengthen the body overall, including your core, hips, legs, back, etc. 90% of the time, "back problems" are caused by muscular imbalances and impingement, which also 90% of the time ... can be corrected and/or prevented with proper exercise.

The under 40 comment is just ridiculous.

Advocating leg press over squats is even more ridiculous.

And do you know what squats REALLY help increase the performance of and help prevent injury? Sports. To advocate sports without exercise makes zero sense to me. Exercise enhances the activity of sports and also prevents injury. Exercise is even MORE important if one is playing sports. If we're talking about tiny children, that's a different matter.

Children between the ages of 9 and 19 have very different reactions to exercise and must exercise differently than mature adults. For instance ... children do not sweat like mature adults do and caution must be taken with how much activity they are doing or it can lead to heat exhaustion or something else. Exercise still benefits these individuals whether it's actual exercise (teenagers) or "organized playtime" (children). The squat is a perfectly viable form of exercise for teenagers entering high school and above and there is no reason to prevent them from doing them.

That's my two cents.