The HANS Protocol

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

Some talk on posterior chain here may interest.

https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...ariants-5.html

That’s interesting, thanks for the link.

I’ll say this: Growing up I’m pretty sure I always had mild pelvic floor issues. Poor posture, tight leg muscles, not hard flaccid exactly but I would keep that temporary hard flaccid linger than normal after stimulants like a pre-workout supplement. I also had a lower than normal libido and sensitivity.
At the time, I had no idea, and thought it was all normal.

But, when I was 19, I started doing stretching before and after my workouts (which I never did before) and I inadvertently and unknowingly started straining my posterior chain muscles 3x a week.
I was doing Box Squats, RDLs, Deadlifts, and Calf Raises on the Leg Press Machine.
The reason I mention this is because over the course of a few months I got more flexible and muscle strong and felt my glutes working for the first time in my life.
I actually thought something was wrong because I was feeling my Glute muscles instead of just my quad muscles.

What happened next was amazing. I know now, but didn’t at the time, that I loosened up in the pelvic floor. I fix strength imbalances and flexibility issues and whatever mild hard flaccid I had at the time was gone. My penis actually grew, especially the head. I’m pretty sure it was just from blood flow, but that’s why ours “shrinks” with hard flaccid. I had much more libido and sensitivity. I had more confidence and less anxiety as a result. More energy and much more benefits.

I remember walking to the water fountain and thinking, “holy crap, is this how people normally feel?”
It felt like I was able to shed unnecessary weight I had been carrying. Like it all melted off my shoulders.

I stopped lifting for like 4 months and kept all the benefits.

So about 6 months later, I started back up again after the new semester started, but this time at a new gym. They didn’t have a box so I did regular Barbell Back Squats, Leg Press, Leg extensions. All Quad exercises. I did NO stretching. I did this for a few months.
Why? Well, at the time I had no idea what a pelvic floor was and attributed the good new feelings to what I thought was raised testosterone levels. Didn’t know what else it could be.
After a few months I got hard flaccid. It developed mid-rep of a heavy back squat. Instantly had all the symptoms guys get, including the anxiety etc. Never had pain though.

Didn’t realize this stuff was flexibility/posture/strength imbalance related until maybe 6 months ago.

I’ve made more progress in 1-1.5 months of stretching (the right way) than the last 6 or so years.
Maybe 2 months or so ago I strained my hamstring doing deadlifts, stretching and playing basketball all in the same day.
Since then I’ve been trying to recover from it. It’s hard getting over them but I’m probably 75% better. The only issue is that I get sore and slight pain from just stretching, so it’s tough to make progress still.

-The progress I had made before was 6-7 inches deeper in the Standing Pike Pose.
-A ton deeper in Couch Stretch. Hard to measure it but it was significant.
-Same with the Pigeon Pose for the Glutes. The only issue here now is that my hamstrings are so tight that I can’t get any deeper because they limit my range of motion. NOT my Glutes! That’s how tight my hamstrings are.
-Calves are harder to tell since the ROM is so small but it’s improved a bit. I’m working on them more now.
-Hip Flexors will be started once I am “Butt-to-Heel” on the couch stretch. I’m really close.
-Adductors, I probably dropped my crotch atleast 1 foot closer to the floor in side splits.

My hamstrings are still CRAZY right though. I just started off EVEN TIGHTER. In the Standings Pike Pose Stretch, I can touch a few inches below my knee caps.
If I do RDLS, I’m barely getting below the knee caps with the Barbell.

Pretty pathetic. Everytime I increase range of motions there I get loosening in the pelvic floor. It instantly because easier to pass gas for example. Hard flaccid has gotten better from it too and so has sensitivity and everything else.

I think this is a pretty interesting account and history I’ve had so I wanted to share.

It’s why I’ve been asking a bit about the hamstrings. I know Katy Bowman and David McCoid think they’re very important.

The issue with people NOT getting results with stretching or physical treatment is simple to me: We have no idea what your starting and ending points are with your PT. If you are crazy tight like me and do it for months and make flexibility improvements, BUT are still tight (because you started off incredibly tight) then it MAKES SENSE to still have symptoms.
You have to get to some normalcy for the body. Go until your pelvic tilt is fixed.
I bet everyone with HF has tight hamstrings and their leg muscles.
I bet most have Posterior Pelvic Tilt, not all, but most.

Test your flexibility.
I’m so tight I can’t squat to parallel. Not even close. I lose the arch in my lower back once I go below a 20 inch box with box squats.
I’m so tight I can’t deadlift. I can only Rack Pull. I lose the arch and round my lower back well before the Barbell weight plates touch the floor. I can’t pull from the floor.
I told you I barely get below my knee caps with RDL’s. “Average” flexibility in a normal population is usually midway down shins with that exercise. And even further with the Standing Pike Pose because you hands aren’t curled up around the bar, and are instead pointing down a few more inches.

Most gym “Newbies” can walk in and start deadlift from the ground or squatting atleast close to parallel.
I bet most of us can’t.


I think the mental aspect is enormous. But, I think if you don’t fix your alignment, then you can’t progress nearly as fast.
I believe fixing the anxiety take the car out of Park. And fixing the physical stuff is hitting the Gas. Or Vis Versa. Doesn’t really matter I don’t think. Both are needed.
-Once you have a good amount of flexibility, alignment, a strength balance in the posterior chain, the rest is mental and direct pelvic floor relaxation techniques.
-Once you have the anxiety in check (hard to judge) the body’s flexibility and imbalances should be checked. This is easy to test.

-Do them both at the same time.



Feel free to ask me anything.
I in know way KNOW this is correct for everyone. I know it helped me in the past and is currently helping me (darn hamstring strain).
I’m curious about you guys’ flexibility.
Good Luck.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Excellent post Xmas. The link with flexibility is well established onsite thus the stretches recommended like hindi squat ( not hf specific) . I have long thought the link to posterior chain strength has been understated and could use more attention and your post is an excellent addition.

I would venture to say that anterior tilt is more common than posterior in pf issues in general.

Have you had input from a physio or the like?

[burnout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close burnout]

@Xams2387

I can 100% confirm what you are saying. Once the pelvic floor is loosening up (by stretching the surrounding muscles) all the libido is coming back. I haven't felt as horny in a long time after doing these stretches for 2 months already.

I'm currently doing a "hardcore" stretch series (gymnasticbodies.com) where you focus on middle split, front split and thoracic bridge. The guy who teaches this is the national US gymnastic trainer so he 100% knows what he is saying. E.g. for the hamstrings you first have to stretch your achilles, feet, calves and then hamstrings. These muscles are all connected. And you do these deep stretches only once a week otherwise your progress will be slower due to soreness in your muscles.

I have never felt this good in my life after doing this for only 2 months now. I used to have knee pain my whole life long which are already gone. My flexibility, however, is still at the beginning so there is a lot more to come for me. But I have realized what a mess my body actually is caused from all the inactivity and sitting around the whole day.

I would also recommend getting a "rumble roller" that you should use before stretching. This helps getting rid of trigger points in your muscles (and I bet you have a lot of them from what I read).

[Spoonman84 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Spoonman84]

If anybody is looking for for a hindi squat routine that involves more advanced stretching that works for fixing pelvic floor issues and better general flexibility these have been great for me and highly recommended. https://youtu.be/lbozu0DPcYI

I believe doing harder variations can be more efficient than just sitting in the stretch longer which a lot of people do.I believe in the effectiveness of the hindi squats, but People have different body shapes, different length femurs and shins, creating different leverage points. We have different areas tightness, and muscle imbalances that all effects people ability different to get deep and strech. So two people sitting in a hindi squats might and target one area different or more efficient from person to person. The other pro I noticed from advance squat is that you can feel it more in the whole of the pelvic floor with BC, PC, Front, back than just staying in one place.

Xmas I find your story fascinating, and is similar to many I've read over the years on body building. Com. That is what first got me interested in squat and posterior chain work relationship to the pelvic floor, was all the people claiming once they started squatting they fixed their ED, Pre E, and other issues was all corrected by it. There are a lot of postings about it. These are people that wasn't trying to fix a problem by squatting, just happened to cure it. The Katy bowman article seemed to connect a lot of dots.

The other interesting thing about glute work, the antagonist to them the hip flexors. People stretch tight hamstrings out to fix say issues with low back pain issues for an example. Tight hamstrings due in fact cause back issues. But they are stretching a muscle that is always engaging, they never get any relief and just keep stretch. They don't realize it's overly tight hip flexors that is pulling the hamstrings that causes the back to get tight in the first place. This also pulls the pelvis out alignment and therefore causing pelvic floor issues for some . When you strengthen the glutes and strech or strength the hip flexors depending on what issues it has , it counteracts and balances out the hip flexors imbalances and helps putting pelvis back in neutral . I believe the most important two stretches for over all well being, improving quality of life and not just pelvic floor are squats and hip flexor. But this is all just IMO, YMMV.

I'm getting long winded, and this is whole different discussion, but If you Google effect of tight hip flexors role on pelvic floor and glutes engagement you can get a lot of info . Then it's a rabbit hole gets deeper and learn that the shoes you wear can throw off your walking gait, this in turn throws off alignment and all sorts of things that people done over the years to throw your whole body off.

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

Excellent post Xmas. The link with flexibility is well established onsite thus the stretches recommended like hindi squat ( not hf specific) . I have long thought the link to posterior chain strength has been understated and could use more attention and your post is an excellent addition.

I would venture to say that anterior tilt is more common than posterior in pf issues in general.

Have you had input from a physio or the like?

-I’ve been to the Wise-Anderson Clinic in Santa Rosa, CA and met Dr Wise, the author of Headache in the Pelvis and his colleague Tim Sawyer, who was trained by Janet Travell (discovered trigger points and was JFK’s back Dr). I think she only trained like 3 protégés, so he’s pretty legit.
I’ve been back several times for work with Tim.
-I went to see John Barnes who’s big in the fascia community.
-Met David McCoid and Nic Bartolotta (his colleague with DCT).
-I’ve been to so many local and other PTs. Too many to count.

Yep I agree it’s important.

If doing just a little PT and a lot of mental stuff helped/fixed you, you may have not been all that tight. Or atleast as tight as other people who have it and put even the same or even more PT.

If you have tight hamstrings then you have Posterior Pelvic Tilt.
I thought for so long I had anterior but if you slouch when you sit, it’s Posterior.

Just about every PT I’ve talked to has said the bay majority of people actually has Posterior Pelvic Tilt.
It’s so much more common that people slouch and sit with bad posture and tighten their hamstrings then it is for people to sit too long with good posture and tighten their hip flexors.

I’d be curious to see people’s postures on here (just crop your face out of the picture). It’s an easy way to determine but I totally get nobody wanting to share.

Also, I’m not sure Anterior Pelvic Tilt is all that bad. A little bit of it is good for athletes. Look at Lebron James, James Harden, Usain Bolt. Just about any speed athlete has a mild amount of it. Hell, even African Bushmen have a mild amount of it.


I think we’re actually supposed to have a bit. We just think we’re not because we sit so much, causing us to lose the natural curve, and we take “straight back” too literally. Also the military encourages a rigid posture.

We, 100% certainly are supposed to have a curve down there though. It’s how the spine naturally is. Only when it’s really noticeable is it an issue usually. Or if you are getting back pain.


-I really do wish people that got better or didn’t kept track of their flexibility gains and where they ended. It may help us a lot.
If you go in blindly and gain some flexibility but don’t get better, then maybe you just didn’t get flexible enough and maybe it’s not “not helping”, but you just didn’t know the end goal.

-I’ve been somewhat of a people-posture watcher since learning some of this. One thing I’ve noticed is that 95% of the time, if a girl has a nice butt, or a guy is fast/athletic/a strong deadlifter, they have flexible hamstrings. Like noticeably more. Like can touch ankles, toes, floor, or AT LEAST low end of shins with a neutral (slightly arched) spine. (Basically the Standing Pike Pose or RDL form)

-Think about it like this:
If you have flexible hamstrings, EVERY SINGLE TIME you bend over to pick up a dropped pen, a box or anything, you are using your glutes and hamstrings in your full range of motion (or atleast a large range of motion). You are doing a bodyweight RDL or Deadlift, and sometimes with just one leg.
Over time they get stronger. They get “tone”. Look I could maybe do 50 straight pushups. They aren’t as strenuous as bench pressing heavy, but if I do 50 throughout the day it will keep a decent amount of strength in my upper body even without ever going to the gym. Apply that to bending over, picking something up, squatting down, getting into and out of chairs the right way, with the right muscles, and you will maintain a decent strength level without “exercise”.
With these proper movement patterns (only because you are flexible enough, and mainly in the hamstrings), you also won’t be using your quads for this job. When we use our quads and don’t stretch our hamstrings, we further ingrain and strengthen these bad movement patterns. Now, imagine having this bad posture and squatting a lot of weight. Or riding a bicycle while slouched over (like every rider does). You’re using so much of the quads and not enough glutes in these situations. You also have your hamstrings in a shortened position. The most basic physical movement we use is the hip hinge. We’ve just forgotten it and it’s importance.
We only dig ourselves deeper over time by not lengthening the necessary muscles. Honestly, if we, who have tight hamstrings, lengthened them then daily tasks would strengthen them and the glutes, our quads would take a back seat and we’d become better athletes from that alone.

Your glutes are supposed to do the bulk of the work. They’re the largest muscle in the body. It’s hard to fatigue them. They recover pretty quickly. Also when you do these exercises without dominant glutes, you really on other muscles such as the pelvic floor.
All of us as toddlers can squat “ass to grass”. We’re all flexible. Most 7 year olds can too. But sitting all day and slouching over time causes our hamstrings to shorten. We all agree that sitting shortens them if we slouch. Well if you don’t stretch them (or just use them in their full range of motion like during RDLs) they’re only gonna get tighter.
When that happens, the glutes are only able to be accessed until you run out of arch in your back. What I mean is, as soon as you lose the arch in your low back during a bodyweight squat or hip hinge, your lower back rounds, and you glutes can’t fire and your quads take over ALONG WITH your low back.
^THIS is why people get low back pain. Picking up a 20 LB box shouldn’t hurt your back. But if it’s stretched past it’s limit (ie rounded) and the box is picked up away from the feet a bit (more leverage, therefore more than 20 LBs) and you pick it up quickly thinking “hey it’s just a box”, you injure your low back.
Also knee pain comes from using the quads more than glutes and hamstrings.
^Aside from the main point but interesting enough.


I think this is pretty damn interesting. I’m not claiming it’s the cure but i think it’s massively important.

How many of your slouch?
How many of you can squat to parallel while keep a slight arch in your back? How many of you and touch your toes while keeping a slight arch in your back?

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

@Xams2387

I can 100% confirm what you are saying. Once the pelvic floor is loosening up (by stretching the surrounding muscles) all the libido is coming back. I haven't felt as horny in a long time after doing these stretches for 2 months already.

I'm currently doing a "hardcore" stretch series (gymnasticbodies.com) where you focus on middle split, front split and thoracic bridge. The guy who teaches this is the national US gymnastic trainer so he 100% knows what he is saying. E.g. for the hamstrings you first have to stretch your achilles, feet, calves and then hamstrings. These muscles are all connected. And you do these deep stretches only once a week otherwise your progress will be slower due to soreness in your muscles.

I have never felt this good in my life after doing this for only 2 months now. I used to have knee pain my whole life long which are already gone. My flexibility, however, is still at the beginning so there is a lot more to come for me. But I have realized what a mess my body actually is caused from all the inactivity and sitting around the whole day.

I would also recommend getting a "rumble roller" that you should use before stretching. This helps getting rid of trigger points in your muscles (and I bet you have a lot of them from what I read).

Dude. Bingo.
Seriously that’s fucking great. Can I say that?

And your absolutely right about knee pain. I saw this after typing my last post. Funny you mention it.

3rd world people with their 3rd world squat aren’t getting knee and hip replacements or back fusions.

I fixed my lower back pain by stretching my hamstrings. I tested it. I did box jumps and it was hurting my back. Literally just bending down only deep enough for a jump was enough to tuck my pelvis (round my lower back), and when I jumped (applied max force with a rounded lower spine) it would hurt.
It constantly would flare up when playing basketball.

I finally thought, well I wonder if it’s the hamstrings reaching their end of range of motion and tugging my back under?
Stretched for 1 week (the right way. I can go into depth with this. It’s probably not what you people are thinking), and I was reaching 2 or so inches deeper and didn’t get any back pain since then. I was at the beginning of rec basketball season too. Still no issues there.

Yep. Gymnastics Bodies is the right way of stretching. So is Kit Laughlin, Emmit Louis, GOTROM, Mindful Mover in Instagram and a few more.

IF YOU’VE EVER HAD TROUBLE GAINING FLEXIBILITY THEN READ THIS:
I always struggled to gain flexibility. Always. Never could gain anything permanent. Here’s what would happen:
-I’d stretch 1-3 Sets of 10-60 seconds passively. As in, I’d sit on my but and reach for my toes to stretch my hamstrings.
I’d get those temporary gains where by the end of the stretch I’m like 2 inches deeper.
Next day, all progress is gone. Same with every day after that. It was not working.

Next up: Yoga.
-This worked better. Made slow progress. But hey it’s progress right?
Oddly what I noticed was some stretches/muscles improved while others didn’t.
I have a good theory as to why it worked and I’ll address it at the end.

Next Up: Loaded/Resisted/Weighted Stretching.
-This is what works.
Most people now agree that flexibility is determined by the nervous system/brain/whatever.
When you run into your end range, the brain is saying “okay I only feel safe up until this point, that’s it.”
The reason it only feels safe to that point is because that’s where you are weak. You’re strong enough in every other less stretched position.

So, what’s the answer?
STRENGTHEN IN YOUR END RANGE.
By strengthening at your current end range of motion, your brain or nervous system or whatever will feel safer and ALLOW you to go deeper.
This is why just doing full range RDLs, deficit deadlifts, deep box squats etc will maintain your range of motion (even improve it) without any “stretching”.

What I’ve had the best results with:
-Imagine I’m doing a seated hamstring stretch.
First is simply warming up. Need the muscles warm. Do 5 minutes of cardio or jumping jacks and move through your full range.
Then you can do a relaxed passive stretch if you want for 30 or so seconds. Honestly it just feels good. Just make sure you feel it in the muscle. (This step isn’t mandatory I just enjoy it)
Then I ease to my end range and dog my heel into the ground by FLEXING my hamstring. A slight bend in the knee just to flex it.
While flexing, I do about 8 reps of hinging forward until I’m at end range, and controlling my descent and then ascension with the flexed hamstring. The hamstring is what is making me come back up. And with each rep I eat a tad bit deeper until the last 2-3 reps I’m not getting deeper. Then I stop that step. You’re usually flexing 80% or so for this. Not maximum but pretty good.
Last step is simply hanging out while flexing at around 50% for 1:45-2:00. I notice maybe 1 minute in and 1:30 on to this I can ease deeper.

This sounds weird and anti what your gym class taught you but it works. Check out the names I mentioned to find more info on it. Just YouTube “loaded stretching” or “resisted stretching”. A “Weighted Stretching” example would be a Weighted Pancake Stretch or a Light Weight RDL (as long as you can hold the weight for 2 minutes without shaking much at all).
Remember to relax the rest of your body. Breathe. Try to only tense that muscle.


That passive stretching isn’t going to strengthen you down there. A lot of times when people get really “flexible” that way, it’s actually because they’re stretching their ligaments and tendons. ie Hypermobility and Gymnasts/Ballet Dancers wrecking their knees and hips.

So, back to why Yoga worked better:
In yoga there’s basically passive and loaded stretches.
I got results with the loaded ones and not the passive.
I just explained why.
The loaded ones are any that you are standing for and bending over to stretch the hamstrings or adductors. Your bodyweight is being held up by your hamstrings while they’re being stretched. It’s loaded enough to strengthen it while stretching it. Thus, Results.
Other loaded ones would be holding a deep lunge position for the hip flexors and quads and front hamstring, downward dog for the calves because you’re stretching them while they’re flexing (pushing balls of feet into ground to stay up). Lots more. Yogas not bad baby.
The passive ones are any sitting ones where you reach for your toes. They’re passive because they always say to relax during yoga, so you don’t flex that muscle. No results from those for me. Many more passive ones. You get the point though.

You mentioned doing splits.
Perfect example for those who say “No you need to relax the muscle to stretch it”
Picture side splits.
You are stretching your adductors while flexing them to pull your legs together in order not to fall/slide your legs so far apart that you tear your groin.
We accept that stretch but it defies the “relax the muscle being stretched” rule.

Super long post guys, sorry.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Ok first off I will offer to Hans to make this it's own thread and take it out of his thread or not as he wishes .

I feel like i have been asked about me . Well first off i should say the only long term pelvic related issue i have had is delayed ejaculation . So i feel i am not a good subject to ask except perhaps as a control normal .

I think pre e and other issues can have a variety of causes and start points . For many guys the solution can be very simple a few stretches even a change of mental process . For others they must dig deeper and look at underlying cause . So here we are .

I have not had pelvic floor issues . It is only in recent times that i had to concern myself with posterior chain strength as age and wear and tear have affected me . My hamstrings are not tight and never have been my hips flexors are tight , With anterior tilt i would not call a normal and natural curve anterior tilt that is indeed what i would call normal and that is what i have . Anterior tilt would obviously be more extreme than that .

I am not particularly flexible the Ido Portal stuff mostly i can 't do but i can most certainly touch my toes etc so i suppose i am more flexible than most my age ,

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

If anybody is looking for for a hindi squat routine that involves more advanced stretching that works for fixing pelvic floor issues and better general flexibility these have been great for me and highly recommended. https://youtu.be/lbozu0DPcYI

I believe doing harder variations can be more efficient than just sitting in the stretch longer which a lot of people do.I believe in the effectiveness of the hindi squats, but People have different body shapes, different length femurs and shins, creating different leverage points. We have different areas tightness, and muscle imbalances that all effects people ability different to get deep and strech. So two people sitting in a hindi squats might and target one area different or more efficient from person to person. The other pro I noticed from advance squat is that you can feel it more in the whole of the pelvic floor with BC, PC, Front, back than just staying in one place.

Xmas I find your story fascinating, and is similar to many I've read over the years on body building. Com. That is what first got me interested in squat and posterior chain work relationship to the pelvic floor, was all the people claiming once they started squatting they fixed their ED, Pre E, and other issues was all corrected by it. There are a lot of postings about it. These are people that wasn't trying to fix a problem by squatting, just happened to cure it. The Katy bowman article seemed to connect a lot of dots.

The other interesting thing about glute work, the antagonist to them the hip flexors. People stretch tight hamstrings out to fix say issues with low back pain issues for an example. Tight hamstrings due in fact cause back issues. But they are stretching a muscle that is always engaging, they never get any relief and just keep stretch. They don't realize it's overly tight hip flexors that is pulling the hamstrings that causes the back to get tight in the first place. This also pulls the pelvis out alignment and therefore causing pelvic floor issues for some . When you strengthen the glutes and strech or strength the hip flexors depending on what issues it has , it counteracts and balances out the hip flexors imbalances and helps putting pelvis back in neutral . I believe the most important two stretches for over all well being, improving quality of life and not just pelvic floor are squats and hip flexor. But this is all just IMO, YMMV.

I'm getting long winded, and this is whole different discussion, but If you Google effect of tight hip flexors role on pelvic floor and glutes engagement you can get a lot of info . Then it's a rabbit hole gets deeper and learn that the shoes you wear can throw off your walking gait, this in turn throws off alignment and all sorts of things that people done over the years to throw your whole body off.

Yep.
I don’t even think your glutes and hamstrings can be too strong.
If you become quad dominant though, it will take over in movements that your glutes and hamstrings should be doing.
Louis Simmons of Westside Barbell is a damn genius and for anyone interested in posterior chain go watch his YouTube videos.
He says flexibility is super important as well.

You’re absolutly right. If my calves are tighter than yours, but my hamstrings are looser than yours, I’m gonna feel the Standing Pike Stretch in my calves before hamstrings and you’ll be the other way around.
This is why I say isolate each muscle to stretch it.
If you stretch all your leg muscles it’s going to help your 3rd world squat without needing to squat.

Katy Bowman has a lot of great info related to us.
Her Hamstrig article is great. A Too Tight Pelvic Floor 1 AND 2 are great.
She’s got more that I can’t think of.
Google her name along with pelvic floor and hamstrings. You’ll get interesting results.

Your paragraph about hip flexors and glutes being antagonists is correct only IF you have ANTERIOR pelvic tilt. Every PT I’ve spoken to has said 90% of the time, their client has POSTERIOR pelvic tilt.
Just relax your body and look at it in the mirror from the side and compare it to google images of neutral, anterior and posterior pelvic tilts. Simple test.
I’d bet most people have posterior.
I thought I had anterior until a PT showed me the difference.
Also if you have Swayback Posture (google it) it is from a tucked pelvis (posterior, not anterior). Some people get those mixed up.
I’d really suggest checking yours because I think so many people get this wrong.
You’re absolutely right about hamstrings and back pain.
You’re right that tight hip flexors inhibit glutes... if there’s reeeally right. Mild anterior pelvic tilt is pretty good because it actually puts you in a position to use your glutes more. Look at nba/nfl/track stars. They all have mild APT.
Either way though, stretch all your leg muscles. You won’t get “too flexible”. As long as each muscle is flexible enough you’ll be okay.

Yep Katy Bowman is huge into the barefoot lifestyle. I think it’s completely unnecessary. Look if we all wore flat shoes or were barefoot and didn’t sit, but instead squatted, from a young age, we’d never lose that toddler flexibility in the first place and we’d always be easily maintaining it without even knowing it.
But we don’t do that.
We sit a lot.
We wear shoes with heels. Although vans and chucks are great. Wear them once you get the calf and hamstring flexibility back.
To undo this we need to stretch. I sit a ton and yet my stretching of around 30 minutes a day prevents, and undoes the tightness in my muscles.

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

Ok first off I will offer to Hans to make this it's own thread and take it out of his thread or not as he wishes .

I feel like i have been asked about me . Well first off i should say the only long term pelvic related issue i have had is delayed ejaculation . So i feel i am not a good subject to ask except perhaps as a control normal .

I think pre e and other issues can have a variety of causes and start points . For many guys the solution can be very simple a few stretches even a change of mental process . For others they must dig deeper and look at underlying cause . So here we are .

I have not had pelvic floor issues . It is only in recent times that i had to concern myself with posterior chain strength as age and wear and tear have affected me . My hamstrings are not tight and never have been my hips flexors are tight , With anterior tilt i would not call a normal and natural curve anterior tilt that is indeed what i would call normal and that is what i have . Anterior tilt would obviously be more extreme than that .

I am not particularly flexible the Ido Portal stuff mostly i can 't do but i can most certainly touch my toes etc so i suppose i am more flexible than most my age ,

You can touch your toes while maintaining a normal curve in the lower spine?
Then that’s great flexibility.

Yep. Not downplaying the mental side at all. It’s just insanely harder to measure than the physical.

This stuff will help you, assuming your mental stuff is in check.

Hard to know when it is. So atleast getting good flexibility will either help you, or help you realize you need more mental focused help.

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

Also, feel free to move this to a new thread. Didn’t intend to mess up Hans’ at all.
He deserves his own.

One more thing, is it possible to turn on email notifications for responses?

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

You can touch your toes while maintaining a normal curve in the lower spine?
Then that’s great flexibility.

Yep. Not downplaying the mental side at all. It’s just insanely harder to measure than the physical.

This stuff will help you, assuming your mental stuff is in check.

Hard to know when it is. So atleast getting good flexibility will either help you, or help you realize you need more mental focused help.

It may be regarded as great flexibility for a middleaged westerner it is what should be regarded as normal . That is it is what an average person should be able to do . That they can not is likely to cause issues .
Again what you call "mild apt" as seen in may athletes is actually normal natural posture as far as i can tell . Perhaps you can post some photo.

[burnout Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close burnout]

-I’ve been to the Wise-Anderson Clinic in Santa Rosa, CA and met Dr Wise, the author of Headache in the Pelvis and his colleague Tim Sawyer, who was trained by Janet Travell (discovered trigger points and was JFK’s back Dr). I think she only trained like 3 protégés, so he’s pretty legit.
I’ve been back several times for work with Tim.
-I went to see John Barnes who’s big in the fascia community.
-Met David McCoid and Nic Bartolotta (his colleague with DCT).
-I’ve been to so many local and other PTs. Too many to count.

I think what we are posting here should have its dedicated topic.

Funny that you've been to all these guys. I have read Headache in the Pelvis and been in contact with Dr. Wise but honestly, I think he is a very shady person. First of all, he is a psychologist and not a real medical doctor. He even runs a forum through a 3rd person (so it looks independent) where all persons with CPS are recommended to do the Wise protocol by visiting him for about $12k (I don't know the exact cost anymore). I have spoken with people who did his protocol and no one had success and these guys spend a lot of time going through all these steps in his protocol. You can read more about it here: https://sexualreboot.com/topic/a-hea...-pelvis-fraud/
Did it help you in any way doing his protocol and doing all the TP Massage (internal) with Tim?

I also did DCT but I did not like their approach. I did it for a few months and didn't have any results from it. My hamstrings were tight again on the next day and HF wasn't changed in any way.

I'm currently doing the Gymnasticbodies program were you are doing 3 stretch programs (Stretch series) once a week and strengthening and mobility exercises during the week (Foundation 1). I think this really helps to get my body back in balance. One important part IMO is core strength which is also covered in this program. A strong core helps the PSOAS to release. This is also a program that is used by Tim Ferriss and he has 2 great podcasts with couch Sommer from Gymnasticbodies.
https://tim.blog/2016/05/09/the-secr...ngth-training/
https://tim.blog/2016/08/17/the-secr...ning-part-two/

I will look into the stretch programs you've mentioned to see if there is anything different because my hamstrings are really stubborn and I'll use any tricks I can get to stretch them out.

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

It may be regarded as great flexibility for a middleaged westerner it is what should be regarded as normal . That is it is what an average person should be able to do . That they can not is likely to cause issues .
Again what you call "mild apt" as seen in may athletes is actually normal natural posture as far as i can tell . Perhaps you can post some photo.

I think you’re correct that it’s normal posture.
I think we’ve been conditioned to think it’s ATP and fear it.
People are so afraid of the curve in the low spine and think a flat, straight back is what we want.
There’s so much fear about ATP out there but I don’t think it’s near as common at PPT.

Yes it’s great flexibility for a westerner today. It’s not great for people that stretch a lot but I think it’s enough or close to enough to get us out of HF physically.

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

I think what we are posting here should have its dedicated topic.

Funny that you've been to all these guys. I have read Headache in the Pelvis and been in contact with Dr. Wise but honestly, I think he is a very shady person. First of all, he is a psychologist and not a real medical doctor. He even runs a forum through a 3rd person (so it looks independent) where all persons with CPS are recommended to do the Wise protocol by visiting him for about $12k (I don't know the exact cost anymore). I have spoken with people who did his protocol and no one had success and these guys spend a lot of time going through all these steps in his protocol. You can read more about it here: https://sexualreboot.com/topic/a-hea...-pelvis-fraud/
Did it help you in any way doing his protocol and doing all the TP Massage (internal) with Tim?

I also did DCT but I did not like their approach. I did it for a few months and didn't have any results from it. My hamstrings were tight again on the next day and HF wasn't changed in any way.

I'm currently doing the Gymnasticbodies program were you are doing 3 stretch programs (Stretch series) once a week and strengthening and mobility exercises during the week (Foundation 1). I think this really helps to get my body back in balance. One important part IMO is core strength which is also covered in this program. A strong core helps the PSOAS to release. This is also a program that is used by Tim Ferriss and he has 2 great podcasts with couch Sommer from Gymnasticbodies.
https://tim.blog/2016/05/09/the-secr...ngth-training/
https://tim.blog/2016/08/17/the-secr...ning-part-two/

I will look into the stretch programs you've mentioned to see if there is anything different because my hamstrings are really stubborn and I'll use any tricks I can get to stretch them out.

It was like $4-5K when I went.
I got more results from Tim’s trigger point stuff then anything else there. He’s good at it.
Not a lot of progress overall though.

DCT I did and didnt get results. There Big into extremely hard flexing and going into end range for like 5 reps and I’d get sore and it wouldn’t work idk.

I modified it and came up with the protocol I listed a few posts back and have had amazing results.
Then I looked it up to see why it was working and found out it was already a thing called loaded stretching/weighted stretching/resisted stretching etc.

I’ll definitely listen to those podcasts. Do thy describe the stretch routines in depth?

I haven’t even really gone after the hip flexors yet. I was waiting until my quads were really flexible so that they didn’t “get in the way” when stretching the hip flexors/psoas.
Once I’m getting my butt to my heel in the couch stretch I’ll add in some hip flexor stretching.
Also another reason is because I’ve found it difficult to find a good way to stretch them while flexing them, during my way of stretching.
I need to hook my foot under something somehow.

Yes hamstrings are tough to release. Ever since straining mine, they are being muuuuch more stubborn. I don’t think I’m totally healed because I get pain and not just regular soreness.

I guess just time and lift stretching and strengthening until it goes away :/

I’ll soak up any hamstring strain knowledge you all have

[Xams2387 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Xams2387]

Here’s a couple “Loaded Stretching” demonstrations and routines.

https://youtu.be/hoQbrx955-8


https://youtu.be/XWOeVa7wiSE