Death

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I like you, I think it is just Cusp, he started all that talk.

[camaro Senior Member Member of the month June 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close camaro]

Aagh!

[camaro Senior Member Member of the month June 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close camaro]

I'll get back to you on that BigO

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I'll get back to you on that BigO

I will be here.

[Padawan787 Moderator ReservePEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Padawan787]

You are in the beginning of truth young Jedi, feel the power, for it is strong within you, look away from the darkness and see into the light. For it is the serpent that will cloud judgement, he will turn many from the truth. It will be done through the smallest of things, the every day distractions To get you to slightly go astray is enough, he does not have to derail you completely but just enough to take you off the less traveled road. It is common to swerve when there is a bump in the road but we must stay focused and take the course that was given!

I'm a staunch atheist, I can't believe in an omnipotent God who allows atrocities to happen, and feels the need to test his followers using a questionable morale code. Sorry

people don't like me!

Only when you have burritos

Find me a passage and I will be better able to make it clear, it also speaks of fire and brimstone, of many ways of destruction but it does not speak of a hell that we will go to as a place for eternal suffering!

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


According to this link (Does Hell exist?) there are three hypotheses with sources from the bible.

1. Those who don't go to heaven go to hell
2. Those who don't go to heaven just die
3. Everyone goes to heaven


Speaking of Hell, it turns out that heaven is actually hotter than hell

The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is Isaiah 30:26, "Moreover, the light of the Moon shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days." Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition 7*7 (49) times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or 50 times in all. The light we receive from the Moon is one 1/10,000 of the light we receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that ... The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation, i.e., Heaven loses 50 times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann law for radiation, (H/E)4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth (~300K), gives H as 798K (525C). The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed ... [However] Revelations 21:8 says "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, 444.6C. We have, then, that Heaven, at 525C is hotter than Hell at 445C.

EDIT: The final judgement mentions hell too:

The Final Judgment


31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[f] you did it to me.’


41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

I'm a staunch atheist, I can't believe in an omnipotent God who allows atrocities to happen, and feels the need to test his followers using a questionable morale code. Sorry



Only when you have burritos



Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


*Wicked people will turn back to She′ol,
Even all the nations forgetting God.


Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

*The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness,⁴²and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.


*Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.⁴²For I became hungry, but YOU gave me nothing to eat, and I got thirsty, but YOU gave me nothing to drink.⁴³I was a stranger, but YOU did not receive me hospitably; naked, but YOU did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but YOU did not look after me.’⁴⁴Then they also will answer with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’⁴⁵Then he will answer them with the words, ‘Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did not do it to one of these least ones, YOU did not do it to me.’⁴⁶And these will depart into everlasting cutting‐off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
Mark 9:43-48
... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

*“And if ever your hand makes you stumble, cut it off; it is finer for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go off into Ge‧hen′na, into the fire that cannot be put out.⁴⁴——⁴⁵And if your foot makes you stumble, cut it off; it is finer for you to enter into life lame than with two feet to be pitched into Ge‧hen′na.⁴⁶——⁴⁷And if your eye makes you stumble, throw it away; it is finer for you to enter one‐eyed into the kingdom of God than with two eyes to be pitched into Ge‧hen′na,⁴⁸where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

*Now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of Abraham.“Also, the rich man died and was buried.²³And in Ha′des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz′a‧rus in the bosom [position] with him.²⁴So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz′a‧rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

* in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.⁹These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

*he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of his wrath, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb.¹¹And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

*And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


According to this link (Does Hell exist?) there are three hypotheses with sources from the bible.

1. Those who don't go to heaven go to hell
2. Those who don't go to heaven just die
3. Everyone goes to heaven


Speaking of Hell, it turns out that heaven is actually hotter than hell



EDIT: The final judgement mentions hell too:

AHH, very good, I will need some time to counter these, I did not know thee were an atheist, You do impress me!

OK, these passages speak of hell, of sulphur and fire but they are reserved for the devil and his angels, they are the ones that will burn in torment forever under the watch of the angels.

I have highlighted in bold the passages from my bible, The issue we will always have is that there are many different bibles so we can always find small differences. I chose this bible because it is the only one that I know of that goes back and transates it as close as possible using the English language, many have been updated and changed to suit the needs of different religions, even the name of God has been removed several hundred times, God has said to call him by name but that is not even used in the newer Bibles.

We could never possibly settle these things as we will always have different interpretations, we can only seek the truths for ourselves, your trying to disprove the existence of God, I am on the other side of the fence so we must both just concede because I doubt we can chnage the view of one another, I respect your views, I just think they are wrong.

We will all find out someday, I hope I am correct

[Padawan787 Moderator ReservePEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Padawan787]

I have highlighted in bold the passages from my bible, The issue we will always have is that there are many different bibles so we can always find small differences. I chose this bible because it is the only one that I know of that goes back and transates it as close as possible using the English language, many have been updated and changed to suit the needs of different religions, even the name of God has been removed several hundred times, God has said to call him by name but that is not even used in the newer Bibles.

Different translations, modifications etc. are issues that really undermine christianity as a coherent faith or ideology, as well as the origins of the bible and the councils of Nicaea.

We could never possibly settle these things as we will always have different interpretations, we can only seek the truths for ourselves, your trying to disprove the existence of God, I am on the other side of the fence so we must both just concede because I doubt we can chnage the view of one another, I respect your views, I just think they are wrong.

We will all find out someday, I hope I am correct

Likewise

We'll all find out in the end though!

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Different translations, modifications etc. are issues that really undermine christianity as a coherent faith or ideology, as well as the origins of the bible and the councils of Nicaea.



Likewise

We'll all find out in the end though!

Unless of course there is nothing in the end, then it would not matter

[Toadstool Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toadstool]

Fire, sulphur and me after i ate a burrito

[Padawan787 Moderator ReservePEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close Padawan787]

Terrifying prospect.

[MrsLooking4more Retired Super Moderator Member of the Month Feb 2013PEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close MrsLooking4more]

Perhaps Mrs can tell us some more and give a direction to this debate.

The Mrs is Christian and you called it near death experience, I did not. I believe it was an "out of body experience" and it did not change my beliefs and it very well could have been oxygen deprivation to the brain, who knows?, who cares. I kept my remarks neutral as to avoid religious debate on this thread, since I respect all beliefs including the right not to believe in organized religion or any deity.

[camaro Senior Member Member of the month June 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close camaro]

Matthew 25:31-46 BigO.Also Pad has quoted a great many verses which do mention hell and it's accompanying torments.

[BigO AdministratorPEGym Hero Find all posts View Profile Close BigO]

Matthew 25:31-46 BigO.Also Pad has quoted a great many verses which do mention hell and it's accompanying torments.

It does say that the fire is preparred for the devil and his angels as well, but the fire he speaks of will cause death, not an everlasting torture. The passages that Padawan speaks of are not worded the same in my bible, hence the bold print in my quote of the passages he provided. In most if not all of them if you read enough before and after it specifies that the eternal fire is specific for Satan and his angels but not for man kind.

However you found one passage that I will look at in my bible, I bet it will be different. Please remember also that one certain religion changed the bible to suit their own needs over the last 18 centuries, They removed gods name, introduced hell where it had never been before and also invented many other beliefs that were never ever written in the scrolls. None of us will ever be forced to believe that we are wrong so we must interpret the bible as honestly as we each can and decide what makes sense.

In all reality most people have absolutely no clue how to read it. At least not if it does not sit them.

[Going411x7 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Going411x7]

The removal of God's name is the influence of the Hebrew Bible. The ancient Hebrews, and today's Jews, did not
and do not speak to God in a direct way, like you would the Lord Jesus. It was considered blasphemous to speak
God's name directly.

God was so powerful and so holy that to look upon him/her would mean certain death, or at least blinding. Kind of like
staring straight into the sun. That is why Moses shields his eyes. Did you see Charlton Heston playing Moses in The Ten Commandments? He, he, he.

Sometimes, they will translate the word Lord, or God with G_d. There are two or three words for God in Hebrew.,
Adonai, etc.

Of course we have Jehovah, in English, etc.

It just depends on the Hebraic version and its translation.


I LOVE THESE WORDS (LOOSE TRANSLATION) when God speaks to Moses:

"I AM THAT I AM." No more questions asked, man, or you will drive yourself crazy.

I am not a Hebrew scholar, that's for sure, but I do know some Hebrew.


There is no beginning and there is no end--Einstein proved that. I find this comforting. Fuck the "big bang"
theory.

[camaro Senior Member Member of the month June 2013 Find all posts View Profile Close camaro]

You know a bit of Hebrew as well..