"From PE to MMO"- Minuteman's Orgasmic log

[Endymion Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Endymion]

Hello MM et al. - just discovered this forum today after months of intermittent googling for resources on premature ejaculation, which unsurprisingly I suffer from. Anyway, I've read through the entire of this thread and now I've got a lot to say and a lot to ask, if you don't mind!

What's happened to you (PE to MMO) is particularly interesting for me to read about because my PE's combined with what seems to me like a bizarrely short refractory period (my metabolism in general is abnormally fast) and sometimes it seems as though I don't have one at all. I don't know about you, but I don't always find it hard to simply keep going after a wet orgasm (WO) and with enough stimulation, though normally only my hand can provide it, I can just go straight onto another WO. To cut a short story shorter, last night I had three WOs in under two minutes (though you can imagine the last one wasn't very 'wet'). It's not a habit - I expect it would really worsen my PE - and it's very, very inconsistent as an ability, but it's happened often enough for me to have a niggling feeling that it all depends on the strength of the first orgasm, which I guess would explain why I haven't really pulled it off properly during sex yet. I was going to mention it only as background to my PE but would be interested to hear your and others' thoughts about this, especially in regard to developing MMOness...

OK. Since I've got PE I suspect my PFMs are in pretty good shape. Like you (or at least you seem to hint this at points throughout this thread), I find it hard to control the various muscles separately but I've got definitely got enough control of them to do what you call the wave exercise a couple of pages back. Recently I've been really quite suspicious that exercising and therefore enlarging my PFMs is increasing pressure on that whole system and actually directly contributing to the PE (though please correct me if I've got the wrong end of the stick). It seems that other people on this forum have seen their PE stay the same or worsen despite the exercises and things certainly haven't improved for me as a result. I'm pretty sure that my PFMs are subconsciously or involuntarily contracted a lot of the time, too, which may make things worse. Anyway, in what sporadic training sessions I've had, I've focussed on keeping the whole lot relaxed for as long as possible while 'edging'. Instead of edging with the real PONR, I've taken the 'edge' to be the first involuntary contraction of my PFMs, after which I have a break. That's what you talk about in post #8, which was encouraging to read! My best is 30 minutes of lubed stimulation, the time not including about 7-9 breaks (each about 60-90 secs long). Not sure if that's a good or bad method or result. But I do know for certain that being able to do that two or three times hasn't made any difference to PE in sex proper. That is still horrendous.

Having read this thread, I'm going to try an experimental session something along the lines you took on page 1 of this thread: doing a reverse kegel when I feel the first involuntary contraction of your PFMs as you near the PONR, stopping or doing a regular kegel early and for long enough to DO if I pass the PONR. Perhaps I'll post my findings. But don't you find that in order for an orgasm to be dry you have to stop stimulation so you can pull off the kegel? And that when you resume you're basically sitting on the PONR already and you just have to stop again? Or can you now continue stimulation through a DO? Does it just require more PFM strength?

Anyway, I haven't been very consistent in my solo practice and want to be able to start the new year with a good idea of a plan and a confident attitude about that plan. I'm ready to take a fresh shot at tackling PE and give it a proper go - it's depressing and frustrating and essentially shite. Given what I've said, what exercises etc. would you (or anyone else who cares to offer advice) recommend that I do, as regular training or as experimentation? Should I aim at MMO too, in which case how do you get around the DO problem above? I don't particularly feel the need to become multi-orgasmic (I'm not sure if I am a little bit already) but maybe this would be a good way around PE. I'd really appreciate any help and advice you can give.

In the meantime, many thanks for an inspiring thread! I'm amazed at how quickly you've been able to achieve everything you have, MM. Sorry for this long and not very well organised post,

E

P.S. I just had an idea I'd like to air after looking at Pegasus' post in another thread about a physical cause of DE - masturbating with too tight a grip. To throw the last shred of decorum out of the window, I've always been astonished by just how tight vaginas actually are (at least, the ones I've encountered). Do you reckon it would be good to do all this edging etc. with as tight a grip as possible (i.e. without being painful?).

Oh, one last thing - what on earth is ballooning?

[Endymion Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Endymion]

* To clarify, I just want a way of being rid of PE once and for all, like anyone else. The burning question which I completely failed to ask is really how I can extend the time between starting stimulation and getting the first of those involuntary PFM contractions in the run-up to the PONR? Thanks again in advance for any suggestions,

E

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Here is a thread that may help you. https://www.pegym.com/forums/prematu...lications.html

Continuing stimulation while in orgasm ,is an advanced skill that often results in mmo. You need either high levels of strength or skill or both.

T you had dry O and your ability will improve with practise.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Today I tried to get a MMO again. So I masturbated a bit, then after a while I got an orgasm, I holded a kegel for about 15 seconds, but this time, I didn't stroke my penis since I've red that without stroking it's a bit easier. So after 15 seconds, I realised my dick was still hard , atleast hard enough to have sex with(so around 70%), then I started to stroke again, and within 15-20 seconds, I would get my fully erection(100%) back and was aroused again. So I kept masturbating again for like 5 minutes, and then decided to ejaculate. Damnn the orgasm was sooo good. My legs started to collapse and out any willing of myself I started to moan(not for long ofcourse haha).

That was actually the second time. The first time I tried was 1 day ago, I had exactly the same results, my dick would stay hard till about 70 %, and my arousement came back pretty quick. But that time I decided to not ejaculate for the second time. So after the first orgasm, I only checked if my dick would stay hard and if I could get my arousement back pretty quick, and gladly it was all check. So after that I stopped. After a while I had to pie but I forget to set a cup ready to check my pie so I tried looking at my pie while I was pieing, and it looked pretty clear and normal, just like all other times that I pie.

But did I actually MMO or was it something else? What ever it was, it's a pretty awesome feeling when you can get back your arousement so quick.

Im now going to train my PC-muscle more and train on my timing. But I guess that my PC-muscle is not strong enough yet to get the same effect when stroking my penis while im holding a kegel. I tried that couple days ago but didn't really get the same results.

Multi-Male-Orgasmic, but does it matter? If you feel good who cares what is the name. Just continue the road you are on too and in time more and more things will come to mind, don't confine yourself to names and numeration etc, it traps oneself to think out of the box.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

But don't you find that in order for an orgasm to be dry you have to stop stimulation so you can pull off the kegel?

Depending on the "skill level" in the beginning the stimulation should be stopped, in time as your control and strength increases that might not be the case.

And that when you resume you're basically sitting on the PONR already and you just have to stop again?

It depends but in most cases you are feeling much less and are not a at PONR.

The definition of dry orgasming is stopping the expulsion phase with kegels, it is different than orgasming (as in wave orgasms, or just regular random orgasms, in time you will notice them, and you will notice that you had orgasms just didn't know because it requires kind of a mental awareness that you will receive later on.). Just because it doesn't involves ejaculating doesn't make it a dry orgasm.

Or can you now continue stimulation through a DO? Does it just require more PFM strength?

It requires you to know your body better, it requires both strength but more importantly control. Some people can do that "on-auto" (like Pegasus) some people must learn to do it manually first and in time it goes on automatic.

Given what I've said, what exercises etc. would you (or anyone else who cares to offer advice) recommend that I do, as regular training or as experimentation? Should I aim at MMO too, in which case how do you get around the DO problem above? I don't particularly feel the need to become multi-orgasmic (I'm not sure if I am a little bit already) but maybe this would be a good way around PE. I'd really appreciate any help and advice you can give.

Once again, observation of your body while edgeing and kegeling and PONR-ing and DO-ing is the most important aspect, your body should be your mentor. (I know it sound zen or whatever but it does work).

There is a kegel exercies list in my signature it is up to you to chose what suits you most. I usually concentrate on wave kegels, and those fine tuning exercises more than the power exercises, but that is me. We are all different so i can't really give you any advice more than i already did trough my log.

I didn't aim from the beginning to be anything (let alone MMO) i just wanted to fix the problem, in time i matured and saw my problem as no-problem, like the "there is no spoon" stuff, and simply got over it with DOs. The state of mind was "Why should i be bothering with that problem when i can simply DO." That maybe isn't correct at the end but at that time it helped me to take my mind of PE and in result in increased my control and passively fixed my problem. You see, now that you have read this, in your mind you will not see DO as the solution, and will be stuck maybe in a PE trap, where instead of concentrating on the new stuff you discovered you will be constantly concentrating on the problem. This is why some thing should not be told. It is one thing to know the end result only, and entire thing to go trough. Because going through it is what counts. In that way i urge you to find about thing trough experiencing and not reading, because who knows maybe the DO solution is right You won't know it until you try it.

In the beginning i haven't had any plans i just sticked to good old edgeing, little towel raises, kegels, some ballooning and observation. The fact that i was satisfied with any advancement no matter how little helped me greatly in fixing the mental side of my problem, while kegels and edgeing helped fix my physical side of the problem. Try your best to enjoy your sessions as much as you can without forcing it. Relax, do it with no bother and don't think about problem or whatever just focus on your body and (yet again) observe. Go slow, you really should not rush, i mean where are you rushing to. If you find that the PONRs are to rapid make a breake. Decide to edge without ejaculating for few days, try to stay horney, try to get use tho that state that emotion, feed it, immerse yourself. Understand that it is not about ejaculation it is about feeling pleasure, that is why we rush to PONR, but in time your senses will sharpen and you will feel pleasure through all of the session not just ponr parts. Try to when edging and feeling excellent, try stopping, relax and look at the celling or where ever, try to feel your breath through all your body, savor the feeling, try to smile.

I know i sound like the damned kama-sutra and it even sounds lame to me, but it works, all those stuff that maybe is sounding corny actually work. When you start felling horny and when you find out how to feel nice trough all of your body, your body itself will start teaching you better than anybody else. You will just KNOW what to do, and how to do it. The more you "love yourself" the more you feel good about your self, about the pleasure and it all, the faster your progress will be. It is all simple things, but we start to understand it only when we experience it.

I never masturbate with the things grip, it just doesn't feel pleasureful. I can only guess that pussy is another type of tight that the hand grip

I am personally against numbness, thinking about grandmas and stuff, the more sensible the better it will develop your senses, what is the pleasure in numbness.

Well i have been lucky maybe, but as you can see trough the topic (only on few instances not) i kept a positive attitude and was glad of any advancement no matter how "small". Also i didn't have Minuteman to fill my head with stuff, i filled it on my own :P (with careful Pegasus guiding).

Good luck on your voyage, it you try hard enough you will start to understand yourself better than ever

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Oh and to answer you

* To clarify, I just want a way of being rid of PE once and for all, like anyone else. The burning question which I completely failed to ask is really how I can extend the time between starting stimulation and getting the first of those involuntary PFM contractions in the run-up to the PONR? Thanks again in advance for any suggestions,

There is no such thing as once for all, it is like saying i like to be build like arnold once for all, if you stop practicing you will regress back.

You can do it by stop and start technique, but changing your grip, your body position, by kegeling hard before ponr. Try also to do the kegel hold (1-3 seconds) at the exact same moment that your do the involuntary contractions, or try doing reverse kegel then kegel, or just reverse kegel.... experiment

Try hanging out at ponr more, tease your self You might find something interesting there

Try ballooning.

To answer your ballooning question. When you are at ponr, stop, pause a little, that with your finger circle SLOWLY where your frenelum (the thing that connect foreskin and the dick), or try lover, make your PFM relax and you will feel strong sensation, but not strong enough to make you cumm (most of the time ) If you keep doing it for a longer time you might be able to find something interesting

also:
Ballooning - Penis Exercise For Size and Hardness

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

It never stops to amaze me how much can a body feel pleasure. Last time i had wave orgasms i decided that next time i have them i will go a step higher because there is a point at which i become a little afraid of what lurks beyond, and more directly can my body handle it. I never though i would think in terms of handling pleasure and pleasure roofs. Anyway.

This morning my libido greeted me with open arms in a form of interesting dream/fantasy that i accepted and started the session, that lasted about an hour of which a good 35 minutes where just wave orgasms, starting with a pleasureful intro and a good ejaculation at the end.

Since i have finished one big part of my task that made my libido = 0, and once my mind was in calmer states for some days my libido came back. So as I was having my session i came to the point in wave orgasms that i felt that i should not process further, gathering up my courage i continued the stimulation at the pace that raised my arousal even more. I felt in a way like a was thrown into water, my body was so hot i actually started sweating, which is pretty rare for me. My dick as so lubricated that i was amazed how much liquid can come out. And the pleasure is like an entire new level, i felt it even more, not just like an idea but like an undoubtfull presence. It wasn't as i would have imagine it, as a boom, it was simply stronger yet different not dangerous, simply more.

I am at loss here for i can't describe something like this with words exactly. It is as if full body in my previous descriptions wasn't that full

For some reason i stopped the stimulation and when on something for a 3 minutes, by that time my dick was limp and acted like it had dry orgasms. In other words it was a little hard to get it back to the hardness, numb, but in time the sensitivity got back and ejaculated to finish that session.

In conclusion it amazes me, how much human body is capable of, how much there is in one person yet we find out so little, if even that. But it also warns me not to be lost in just one aspect of life. Or better yet not to look at them as the separate things but just an aspect of whole.

The only thing in this session that wasn't "perfect" was the ejaculation part which was a little forced, maybe i should have not done it but hold on the feeling trough the day. But i'm not saying it was terrible or something (i'm not that smug) it did bring a smile on my face for next hour or so, and even now when i think about it, and i don't want to act ungrateful when i am.

But in each of us there is something that is always hungry for more, and a part that is satisfied with the way the things are now. Both of them can be either good or bad. For example the part of you that says "I like the way things are" but when they are rally not (not having a job etc) is when that part acts as bad, since it lack the driving force (i.e. running away from things).

Probably one of the "secrets" to good life is balancing between that two parts of oneself (or more ), and knowing when to listen them and when not to.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

My sessions now are on 3-4 day basis, and almost all result in a soft wave orgasms, last night was no different but it had some added things

First of all as i started due to my premature ejaculation "problem" i came to ponr really fast this time, so i wasn't able at first to get into the wave (as it is normally done when performing the soft variation) so i pause and took a deep breaths with my upper lungs, just when you do when you run to much and you gasp for air. With that i did two things, one thing is that i allowed my arousal to spread, another thing is that by doing that i backed off the PONR and at the spot where i usually enter wave orgasms, as i did. Of course all of this was filled with pleasure waves that few months ago would feel like some fairy tail. This wave was one of those where you can drop off easally and after some time i went to PONR and did a clean DO (also with using my other muscles since i don't practice them). Now i did what i would usually do (that work for me) in other words i would turn those unconscious kegels into conscious kegel holds while simulating only the shaft. After some time my arousal returned.

Now, usually at this time i stop, since i find no point moving on, but this time out of curiosity i moved on, and since the first DO (at least for me) is always the strongest and most uncontrollable one, every other was less and less so. And suddenly i was chaining DOs and went into a HARD (typical) wave orgasms! After some time (short time) i was out of it and decided to ejaculate so i can finally go to sleep.

So in conclusion my session was like this START-PREMATURE PONR-BREATH-SOFT WAVE-DO-HARD WAVE-EJACULATION, in other words it was THE most complete session i had. Session lasted around 1h and 15min, of which around 45 (it seems unreal but it isn't) minutes or so i was in soft wave and 3-5 minutes or so in hard wave.

Now i understand why is it called soft and hard. You see, soft wave is like a girls rolling orgasm (at least i think so) there are gentle waves that are like waves are constant but calm (OR AT LEAST CALMER). Hard waves are like strings of powerful DOs, strong hard and crushing. I now know why I am much attuned to the soft version, i simply like it more, i like the gentle constant long waves rather than roaring waves that those hard waves where, it is simply who i am, it depends on a person i guess.

For me hard waves, are very hard to perform and are i thing to powerful for me. I will probably practice them in future but not much as i do soft ones, there are simply my forte.

Of course my hard rolling orgasms where still undeveloped and not well balanced, the balance maybe it would be different.

Now i also see why at the later stadiums one should finish every session with an ejaculation, simply the pleasure is to strong and a mechanism must be there to prevent any potential damage or uneasiness. BUT in the beginning it is good not to end every session with ejaculation simply for the sake of attuning better to the aroused state.

Ironically i now see my over sensitivity more as a blessing than as a "curse".

When i finished my session i felt different now i wasn't feeling that much energized as i felt like after a good meal where you have eaten just enough and still feel just a little hungry at first but then you realize you actually feel full and not overeaten.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Well done, this hard version is what I normally teach, as I think it is more suited to most guys.
As you know I can do soft form, but am more suited to hard.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

I read this thread with interest. It's a LOT of information to take in, and personally, I'm literally a week in to making the first progress yet on my six year PE problem, so I'm still experimenting with that first tiny bit of control, and getting all a bit over-excited at the prospect of having an active sex life again. Like you MM I found it relatively easy to control individual muscles in my pelvic floor, such that I could reasonably easily do the huge variety of kegel exercises you posted, but not a lot of reps, and I'm too weak down there still to stumble on experiences like you describe. I could probably write an essay on my experience with PFMs over the last few weeks, but I'll save that for now. Just wanted to say it's been an inspiring read so far. Thanks for sharing

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Good spanky, this log will be here when you are further along and able to use the info more.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

I read this thread with interest. It's a LOT of information to take in, and personally, I'm literally a week in to making the first progress yet on my six year PE problem, so I'm still experimenting with that first tiny bit of control, and getting all a bit over-excited at the prospect of having an active sex life again. Like you MM I found it relatively easy to control individual muscles in my pelvic floor, such that I could reasonably easily do the huge variety of kegel exercises you posted, but not a lot of reps, and I'm too weak down there still to stumble on experiences like you describe. I could probably write an essay on my experience with PVMs over the last few weeks, but I'll save that for now. Just wanted to say it's been an inspiring read so far. Thanks for sharing

You are welcome. Anyway take it slow (in your pace to be more exact, is what i mean). The most important tools for progressing are observation of your body and its reactions and pleasure in what you do, without that the progress will not be as fast. And be satisfied about ANY no matter how small step, if you lasted a milliseccond longer that is a progress it may sound stupid but believe me that mindset was something that helped me big time, and listen to Pegasus, he is one with definitely most experience in MMO stuff around here.

Also i recommend making your own log and writing your stuff there, so that you can have it all in one place so that when you reread it you will be able to see what you did wrong, or be reminded that you had some pretty good progress, it is both a log and a big motivational tool for both you and the people who read it.

Good luck.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

I'm glad I started to read this again - I can relate far more to your experiences here now after some weeks practice and some new experiences.
(edit: just noticed Pegasus' comment 146 - Touché)

Post 17 interests me greatly though. I was edging today and going well. But after 20 minutes or so I started getting rushes across my body, a little like you get from a cold shiver or a tickle (even like MDMA), but repeating and gradually increasing in intensity, and I suddenly had to really concentrate to slow my breathing. I was immediately reminded of some things I'd read in this thread of your early experience and thinking I was on to something started trying desperately to keep it escalating.

Thing is I couldn't keep them up, even though I kept up stimulation. After 3 or 4 rushes, each stronger than the last, it basically stopped, and I couldn't keep it going long enough to obtain the sort of experience you describe. That's why I'm here again, reading through, bumping as I go.

This is a new experience for me, perhaps because I'm more aware of it now, perhaps because I'm using kegels during edging now rather than just performing them, but very pleasurable nonetheless. Was I on the edge of wave orgasm here you think?

And if so, any tips for sustaining it? It all seemed rather elusive.

[spanky Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close spanky]

Having read more I'm starting to think now that I was on the edge of something great there - I just couldn't keep it rising enough to tip the balance.

I'm not experienced enough to know if I'm describing it right, but if hard wave MMO is DO after DO with contractions and the like, and soft wave is the rushes I started to get today emanating from my lower chest and pelvis outwards with increasing intensity I think I prefer the idea of soft wave.

I think that's probably a more powerful, maybe even spiritual experience to share with a girl too.... just my opinion.

Perhaps also it's for the same reason you said up there in comment 143 that hard wave is (or seems) a lot more difficult, and I, like yourself, am starting from a place of tackling PE first and foremost, so the idea of actually submitting to hard wave should it be available seems quite intimidating.

[Pegasus AdministratorPE Gym EditorPEGym Hero ☺ Admin of the Month Mar 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close Pegasus]

Ok spanky, the act of concentrating on trying to maintain soft wave probably knocked you out of it. You have to allow the flow of soft wave. Hard wave is more something you make happen. Anyway will be interested to see what MM has to say.