5 Months In: No progress with IKs

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Vibrator balooning is going okey but it is no where as stimulating as death grip with lube. Not exactly sure if I am progressing or not to be honest. I still havent reached plateau or am I able to spread atousal despite edging for 45+ minutes. Pleasure is still stuck in the pf. I cant feel it anywhere else. Tried Tennis ball, deep squats, heavy leg presses. Nothing is making RKs strong enough to counter IKs.

I have now shifted my focus on dry orgasms. Vigorously progressing through MM's dry orgasm guide. currently at week 3. Maybe this is the last solution?

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

What's going on what have i missed, Deathgrip, lube, vibrator ballooning edging for 45 mins?

Gucci you're there already.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

LLN, you are probably right. Tbh, I havent had sex in a while so I can't judge my performance since this vigorous edging routine. I am just saying based on my inability to find plateau. Basically I am unable to find a state where I feel pleasure and I keep stroking. When I start feeling pleasure (purely trapped at my pf) I am at PONR with strong IKs where I need to be so slow and careful to prevent going over the edge. Each stroke has a strong auto response IK spasm. I just dont feel this can be transferred to sex. What is bothering me the most is that the pleasure is only felt in the pf and I dont feel aroused elsewhere.

[Jay48 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jay48]

Just curious Gucci, are you circumcised or uncircumcised?

[longerlastingnoob Senior Member Member of the Month Jan 2015 Find all posts View Profile Close longerlastingnoob]

Plateau is just feeling pleasure instead of of skipping straight to orgasm. If you aren't feeling anything at all until orgasm then just keep working on edging to ponr and staying there for as long as possible, you may go over the edge but if you keep at it you should improve.

Spreading the arousal isn't something that can be done easily, I can't do it when im edging alone, only when I would push rk when nearing orgasm it would spread down to my legs. Having sex is different because you're touching and being touched all over so don't worry about trying to completely emulate sex when edging alone, won't happen, just do what you can.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Okey, we need explore my situation in greater detail as I feel I am seeing no progress with edging.

Now, my edging routine is this. Before, I start I spend 5 minutes looking at some erotic imagery to get mildly aroused.

Now, I have start edging with a fleshlight. I am okey for 5-10 pumps where I feel no pleasure but all of a sudden I have violent spasms where I feel intense spasms in my PF (nowhere else). I stop for 10-15 seconds and restart and same thing happens again. If, I continue going, I go over the edge. I don't feel pleasure anywhere but my pf floor. I do this for 30 minutes (Most of the time I end up cumming involuntarily due to one of the spasms). Hand-held edging is a bit easier but end of the day fleshlight is the closest proxy to sex.

I also balooned to a vibrator for a few weeks and saw no results while edging with fleshlight.

Off edging, I am following the MM's dry orgasm conditioning program. I also do deep leg presses at the gym (I can't squat due to bad knees). I did a lot tennis ball massaging for about 4-5 months with no improvement.

What else can I tweak to get results? How can I severe the link between a pump and the spasm?

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Okey, we need explore my situation in greater detail as I feel I am seeing no progress with edging.

Now, my edging routine is this. Before, I start I spend 5 minutes looking at some erotic imagery to get mildly aroused.

Now, I have start edging with a fleshlight. I am okey for 5-10 pumps where I feel no pleasure but all of a sudden I have violent spasms where I feel intense spasms in my PF (nowhere else). I stop for 10-15 seconds and restart and same thing happens again. If, I continue going, I go over the edge. I don't feel pleasure anywhere but my pf floor. I do this for 30 minutes (Most of the time I end up cumming involuntarily due to one of the spasms). Hand-held edging is a bit easier but end of the day fleshlight is the closest proxy to sex.

I also balooned to a vibrator for a few weeks and saw no results while edging with fleshlight.

Off edging, I am following the MM's dry orgasm conditioning program. I also do deep leg presses at the gym (I can't squat due to bad knees). I did a lot tennis ball massaging for about 4-5 months with no improvement.

What else can I tweak to get results? How can I severe the link between a pump and the spasm?

Try to match your body arousal and pressure intensity with your pelvic floor intensity. In other worlds try to breath trough your mouth constantly and engage your body as much as you can. Try jogging or doing push ups before edging, or even in between your edging pauses. Try to bring your pulse higher and your whole body warmer (do go over too much of course). You need to make your body act along with your current arousal and pressure in order to be able to even it out, notice how people in porn for example become sweaty during the session. Sometimes the body cannot spread the arousal and need to learn how to do it.

Also next time you have a session with the fleshlight try to start very very slow even if you feel no pleasure at all, just slowly thrust and slowly pull it out etc. Try to notice at what exact moment do the spasms start and if they continue while you are in the fleshlight and not moving at all.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hey MM,

So nothing new in terms of progress. Still terrible. I tried doing really slow (1 pump per 10 sec). Spasms come in like a minute. Spasms stop when I stop stimulating. But, they come back when I restart. Each pump has a spasm. And one of these spasms take me over the edge and I end up doing a partial or complete ejaculation. The pleasure is only felt in the pelvic.

Outside edging I am now in 0.3 of DO guide.

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hey MM,

So nothing new in terms of progress. Still terrible. I tried doing really slow (1 pump per 10 sec). Spasms come in like a minute. Spasms stop when I stop stimulating. But, they come back when I restart. Each pump has a spasm. And one of these spasms take me over the edge and I end up doing a partial or complete ejaculation. The pleasure is only felt in the pelvic.

Outside edging I am now in 0.3 of DO guide.

Have you tried to activate your body more during ending (even stopping and doing about 10 squats and/or 10 pushups then continuing, or moving around the room). Have you tried to breath only trough your mouth throughout the duration of the edging session (not just slow and steady but also rapidly and erratically)?

The fact that you have such strong spasms means that your pelvic floor is either very very tight, or that you are unable to spread the build up pressure (which actually might be the same thing). Shifting your routine to a more reverse kegel weighted one (maybe even 70:30 in favour of reverse kegels) might be a good idea.

The other thing you might do is override your IKs with either kegel holds or reverse kegel hold. The problem is that your IKs seem to be the synchronous IK (SIKs) which are almost always there, but as one strengthens and learns to relax the pelvic floor they stop affecting one that much.

I don't remember if you mention this, but going to the gym or having a more serious whole body (or bodyweight) workout might help you with this. People who exercise in general have a much more relaxed body (at least that is my experience), so if you haven't been going up to this point you might want to seriously reconsider dedicating yourself to a more whole body exercise oriented life style.

In that light it might be a good idea to lay off the edging and the pelvic floor routine for a few months and substitute it with exercising in a gym, fitness centre of wherever. Sometimes the best way to change fix something is to try to tackle a potential underlying cause.

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Yes, the last few times I did a good amount of pushups (50) before I started edging. My breathing process is usually inhale through the nose and exhale through the mouth. I have been breathing slowly rather than rapidly to be honest. I will take shorter breaths over my next sessions.

As for PF balance, its been over 1 year of RKs, tennis ball massage and yoga stretching. Although I can hold an RK, it just doesn't overcome the IK spasm. Neither does regular kegels.

With respect to gym, I have been training for last 10 years. I go to the gym 2-3 times a week. I do strenght/heavy lifting once/twice which include only compound movements (Deadlifts, bench etc.). I also do plymetrics on other days with lot of box jumps, power cleans etc. I also run, swim 1-2 a week.

Now my knees aren't in the best shape so I tend to avoid squatting but I instead do deep leg presses to hit the pelvic floor. I do this 1-2 times a week.

The reason why I started your DO guide is due to 2 things:

- Use your routine to isolate the muscles in order to activate the correct RK hold. (My RK weighted routine haven't shown any results in last 1+ year so either I am doing something wrong or there is something different about my PF).

- Since traditional Pre-E training is not showing results, I can atleast hope to master MMO.

[Shikamaru Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Shikamaru]

Yes, the last few times I did a good amount of pushups (50) before I started edging. My breathing process is usually inhale through the nose and exhale through the mouth. I have been breathing slowly rather than rapidly to be honest. I will take shorter breaths over my next sessions.

As for PF balance, its been over 1 year of RKs, tennis ball massage and yoga stretching. Although I can hold an RK, it just doesn't overcome the IK spasm. Neither does regular kegels.

With respect to gym, I have been training for last 10 years. I go to the gym 2-3 times a week. I do strenght/heavy lifting once/twice which include only compound movements (Deadlifts, bench etc.). I also do plymetrics on other days with lot of box jumps, power cleans etc. I also run, swim 1-2 a week.

Now my knees aren't in the best shape so I tend to avoid squatting but I instead do deep leg presses to hit the pelvic floor. I do this 1-2 times a week.

The reason why I started your DO guide is due to 2 things:

- Use your routine to isolate the muscles in order to activate the correct RK hold. (My RK weighted routine haven't shown any results in last 1+ year so either I am doing something wrong or there is something different about my PF).

- Since traditional Pre-E training is not showing results, I can atleast hope to master MMO.

Gucci when i first got my fleshlight, i could barely thrust into it just like you. literally 10 thrusts and i felt pONR right there , the spasms. and everything. it will take time bro you must be patient. I feel like you are like me where the problem is more physical. Read on my log see how much progress i made ! i went from not being able to thrust at all to plateau edging for 55 mins ! keep doing tennis ball massage every day, try going to yoga sessions, do a 70 % Rk routine, 30 % kegals. lastly, you must edge and try to hold off cumming! as i can see from ur log you still dont know when to really stop to avoid cumming! you have to know your body really good from where 1 more thrust can make you go over the PONR and cum. I can tell now from 4 monhts ago when i literally need to pull out or i can maybe do a couple extra strokes! But forreal bro ur edging sessions are difficult at first, mine were extremely difficult b/c i couldnmt take that much pleasure from the fleshlight b4 reaching PONR. just keep praciticng and fail forward . dont quit. do a 3 day routine where u only ejaculate on the 3rd day. you have to beat that urge to cum. Also staying near pONR for as long as possible will help ur stamina alot b/c for most ppl with PRE E that is when plateau is. good luck if u got any questions feel free to ask. check my log and see how much progress i made it is possible bro

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Yes, the last few times I did a good amount of pushups (50) before I started edging. My breathing process is usually inhale through the nose and exhale through the mouth. I have been breathing slowly rather than rapidly to be honest. I will take shorter breaths over my next sessions.

As for PF balance, its been over 1 year of RKs, tennis ball massage and yoga stretching. Although I can hold an RK, it just doesn't overcome the IK spasm. Neither does regular kegels.

With respect to gym, I have been training for last 10 years. I go to the gym 2-3 times a week. I do strenght/heavy lifting once/twice which include only compound movements (Deadlifts, bench etc.). I also do plymetrics on other days with lot of box jumps, power cleans etc. I also run, swim 1-2 a week.

Now my knees aren't in the best shape so I tend to avoid squatting but I instead do deep leg presses to hit the pelvic floor. I do this 1-2 times a week.

The reason why I started your DO guide is due to 2 things:

- Use your routine to isolate the muscles in order to activate the correct RK hold. (My RK weighted routine haven't shown any results in last 1+ year so either I am doing something wrong or there is something different about my PF).

- Since traditional Pre-E training is not showing results, I can atleast hope to master MMO.

When breathing only use the mouth, I noticed that in general the PONR will approach much faster when breathing trough the nose and that the spasms will have much more effect. I am not completely certain why is this but it might be to the way muscles are used in a different way when breathing trough the mouth only. Anyway experiment with different breathing patterns but the most important one for now to test out is just breathing through the mouth only, let your body handle the tempo of your breath.

Good to know about the gym, that eliminates a important component from the list of possibilities, and just adds to the mystery. By the way, things like planks and other tension exercises helped me as well, just throwing that out there.

As for the tennis ball massages, I tend to avoid them allot since they only make my pelvic floor trigger IKs even more, maybe it does the same for you. It might be a good idea to avoid it, it might be actually making things even worse. I am not sure where I heard it but I recall that to much stretching done with to much intensity actually makes the muscle try to shorten even more to protect itself.

When a IK happens try then to turn it into a 1-3 second kegel hold and try to do this constantly. That is also a good DO practice by the way since you will be able to recognize when to hold a kegel. Also for the DO practice keep noticing when and how your IKs override your reverse kegel hold and try to turn it into a kegel hold by using the movement from the IK, that is also a very good DO exercise. So in that way you might turn your problematic IKs into a tool for exercising your future DO attempts, use everything (improvise, adapt, overcome).

Then in the next session return to the breathing again, do not try something only once but several times but always dedicate your edging session towards one specific technique. Over time as you get more proficient with a certain technique it will move to the unconscious part of yourself and you may focus on new techniques. Here are two useful parallels which defend this observation:

1. Typing and not looking at your keyboard. At first I had to look at my keyboard when I type now I don't even need to look at the screen, but in the beginning it took all my attention to be able to even type properly, because I did not know where all the keys where.

2. Driving. At the beginning just looking forward and having to shit gears, break, turn on the blinkers was an impossible feat for me. Only when I practice doing it so much that I could do it unconsciously where I able to properly participate in the traffic.

The only thing that is important is that during the session you focus on doing as little things as possible, for example dedicate your whole session to just breath to the mouth, then dedicate the next one just for turning IKs into kegel holds or IK into reverse kegel holds then when overpowered into a kegel hold.

Pursuing DO (and doing the DO routine) in your case is a very good idea then, you might actually find the solution that way (that is in a way what happened to me), since just the notion that I can simply DO gave me allot of confidence and opened my mind for new possibilities.

I am sorry that I cannot help you more, you seem to have everything in tune with your body but just one thing and finding it can be hard, it just may be the breathing. I discovered it for myself just a few months ago and it has drastically improved my tolerance towards any PONR and IKs comings and goings.

Also dedicate one of those edging sessions to just clenching and releasing different muscle groups all over your body, since you are working out, activating the muscle groups (chests, glutes, abs, bicpes ) should be easy, spend some time on that as well.

Unfortunately your journey is going to be tough but it will make it so much better at the end, don't lose hope, I discovered a bunch of good techniques solely by accident while trying totally different stuff (everything but the proverbial kitchen sink).

[Guccimayne1986 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Guccimayne1986]

Hey guys,

I got pretty depressed and frustrated this week due to continuous lack in edging progress. Same old story. Start edging and PONR is here within 5-10 thrusts using the fleshlight. And then its just a battle to not go over the edge with every single thrust triggering triggering PONR. I usually end up involuntarily ejaculating. As advised by MM, I focused on my breathing the entire time.

But I discovered something this week. Every thrust or pulling of the penis triggers a pelvic contraction. This happens even when I am flaccid. I was so frustrated that I wanted to try some different stuff. I lubed up and inserted one up the bottom to see what was really going on and I discovered that there is automatic contraction/clenching of the entire PF when I play with my penis. The clenching of course is very strong when I am erect and that is pretty much what we call label the IK.

Firstly is this normal? Is a certain amount of PF contraction normal to those who don't have Pre-E?

If this is not normal. What can I do to cut this auto-response?

Edging hasn't worked - even after 1.5 years of 30 min sessions, the auto-response is still there.

I have done millions and millions of RKs (off-edging) and that hasn't cut the auto-response. Although I do feel RK offer a counter movement to tackle the contraction, the contraction almost always overpowers the RK. It feels very tense to hold RKs as well as I don't feel relaxed at all. I need to flex my abs to hold an RK and it is quite uncomfortable.

I have been doing deep squats, tennis ball massages and that hasn't worked.

What am I missing here? I just want control over the PF movements, that is it. Cutting that auto-response contraction will cure my Pre-E. But how can I do this?

[Jay48 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jay48]

It definitely seems a bit unusual to me that you are getting IKs even when flaccid and, I presume, not aroused? I only get them when erect and aroused. I share your concern about RKs only helping minimally to combat IKs though; for me they also feel tense, with lots of ab flexing involved. I haven't been edging for nearly as long as you have, and without nearly the same dedication, however. Wish I could be of more help. =/

[Minuteman Member of the Month March 2013. Find all posts View Profile Close Minuteman]

Hey guys,

I got pretty depressed and frustrated this week due to continuous lack in edging progress. Same old story. Start edging and PONR is here within 5-10 thrusts using the fleshlight. And then its just a battle to not go over the edge with every single thrust triggering triggering PONR. I usually end up involuntarily ejaculating. As advised by MM, I focused on my breathing the entire time.

But I discovered something this week. Every thrust or pulling of the penis triggers a pelvic contraction. This happens even when I am flaccid. I was so frustrated that I wanted to try some different stuff. I lubed up and inserted one up the bottom to see what was really going on and I discovered that there is automatic contraction/clenching of the entire PF when I play with my penis. The clenching of course is very strong when I am erect and that is pretty much what we call label the IK.

Firstly is this normal? Is a certain amount of PF contraction normal to those who don't have Pre-E?

If this is not normal. What can I do to cut this auto-response?

Edging hasn't worked - even after 1.5 years of 30 min sessions, the auto-response is still there.

I have done millions and millions of RKs (off-edging) and that hasn't cut the auto-response. Although I do feel RK offer a counter movement to tackle the contraction, the contraction almost always overpowers the RK. It feels very tense to hold RKs as well as I don't feel relaxed at all. I need to flex my abs to hold an RK and it is quite uncomfortable.

I have been doing deep squats, tennis ball massages and that hasn't worked.

What am I missing here? I just want control over the PF movements, that is it. Cutting that auto-response contraction will cure my Pre-E. But how can I do this?

I label these as SIK (synchronous involuntary kegels), and as far as I know there is no way to actually eliminate them, but usually as one gets a stronger and relaxed (more balanced) pelvic floor the SIKs should simply not affects one as much. What is the reason this haven't happened to you, I really have no idea.

I remember spanky writing something about using vibrators to dull the sensitivity and maybe response so it might be a good idea to contact him about that specific idea, you can read more about it here.